Transubstantiation Unsubstantiated Substantially :P

[HAZARD]

20 hours ago, Patrick Miron said:

 

 

REPLY

Sure:

Do I believe in it? Absolutely, without question or any reservations, as do MILLIONS of fellow Informed Catholics

[2] If so, how does it work?

My friend did you know that that you have touched on the very foundation of Catholicism, and therefore Christianity, in asking this question?

This is of such critical importance that I will endeavor a full, complete and comprehensive answer to your question. So it will be lengthy.

Our Catholic Catechism explains its critical importance to all of us.

1324 The Eucharist is "the source and summit of the Christian life." "The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch. {sacrifice}

1327 In brief, the Eucharist is the sum and summary of our faith: "Our way of thinking is attuned to the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn confirms our way of thinking."

 

Let’s began a systematic approach by sharing that the term “Traunsbstanuation” was given birth during the Council Of Trent 1550-1555; which provided a thorough, much needed at the time, {re} explanation of many of the LONG-defined doctrines and Beliefs of the RCC; which were then under attacked and being put into “question” by Martin Luther {an apostate Catholic Monk}, and the defacto Father of the NEW 16^th Century Protestant Reformation.

Martin was intent on inventing HIS OWN Personal version of Christianity and did so by attacking many long held defined Doctrinal {defined} Beliefs of the RCC; which he very often expressed by changing Bible TEXT to better conform with HIS New Teachings. {Luther also removed 7 entire OT books to further His Cause.}

When was the term “Eucharist” first used?

“Justin Martyr (114-165).

Justin was born into a well-to-do pagan family in Samaria. He dabbled in philosophy, studying all the major schools of thought in his day. He came across an old man who told him that Christianity was the one true philosophy, and as a result, he was converted in about 132. He was the first person to use the word Eucharist {MEANS Thanksgiving} to refer to the Communion service. However, he was an apologist, not a theologian. He was referring to usage that was common in his day. So it is very likely that Eucharist was the original, first-century term for the Communion service.” {Which later morphed into a synonymous term for the “Real Presence” and the Mass. 

 

1345  As early as the second century we have the witness of St. Justin Martyr for the basic lines of the order of the Eucharistic celebration.{THE MASS} They have stayed the same until our own day for all the great liturgical families. St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did:

 

On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place.

The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits.

When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things.

Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.

When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss.

Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.

He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts.

When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: 'Amen.'

When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the "eucharisted" bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent. END QUOTES

 

 

Before getting into the definition of terms that I will be using, it seems prudent to explain WHY and HOW a Catholic Religious belief becomes a “Defined Doctrine”

At its root it’s a matter of a Faith-belief {usually already long held} being challenged.

From a practical perspective there is no actual need to formally DEFINE a belief that is long held and practiced unless and until it is being challenged. It is the act of being challenged aspect that drives “the need” to formally explain; that is to define a particular religious belief.

The challenge to the belief of the “Real Presence”; what was to become termed the “Eucharist” was by {Saint} Gregory VII, {1073-1085}

 

DECREE Of the Most Holy Eucharist/TRENT/canon number two

ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST

CANON I.-If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema.

CANON lI.-If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

{TRENT} CHAPTER IV. 
On Transubstantiation.

And because that Christ, our Redeemer, declared that which He offered under the species of bread to be truly His own body, therefore has it ever been a firm belief in the Church of God, and this holy Synod doth now declare it anew, that, by the consecration of the bread and of the wine, a conversion is made of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord, and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of His blood; which conversion is, by the holy Catholic Church, suitably and properly called Transubstantiation. END Quotes

The term Transubstantiation. itself is a Theological term; invented to DESCRIBE the process that you are asking about, BUT it ought to be rightly used in conjunction with -the term “CONSECRATION” which is the “ACTION”; The Process itself.

-What is “{the}Consecration”?

“CONSECRATION. The words of institution of the Eucharist, pronounced at Mass by which is accomplished the very sacrifice that Christ instituted at the Last Supper. The formula of consecration is uniform for all the approved canons of the Mass and reads, in literal translation: "Take and eat of this, all of you; for this is my body which will be given up for you . . .Take and drink of this, all of you; for this is the chalice of my blood, of the new and eternal testament, which will be shed for you and for many unto the remission of sins. Do this in commemoration of me." (Etym. Latin consecratio; from consecrare, to render sacred.)”  End Quotes Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary

“What is Transubstantiation”?

“Transubstantiation is the process by which the bread and wine of the Eucharist is transformed into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. Catholics believe that through transubstantiation, the risen Jesus becomes truly present in the Eucharist. The word transubstantiation is made up of two parts: 'trans' and 'substantiation.' The first part is a prefix that means 'across', 'beyond', or 'through'. It suggests that some kind of change has taken place.

The second part of the word, 'substantiation,' refers to the philosophical term substance. According to the Greek philosopher Aristotle, substance is a thing's deepest being, what it is, in and of itself. The substance of a thing is what it really and truly is beyond all appearances.

Aristotle calls those appearances accidents. An object's accidents are its external characteristics, what we can see, smell, touch, taste, and hear. Those accidents can help us identify and describe an object, but they do not necessarily capture the inner essence of a thing, its substance.

Let's look at an example. A teenager decides to dress up as a zombie for Halloween. His costume is highly realistic, complete with torn clothing, heavy makeup, and lots of fake blood. He groans like a zombie and even has an earthy, musty smell. To all appearances, in his accidents, this young man seems like a zombie, but deep down, in his substance, he is, of course, a human teenager.

In transubstantiation, then, the substance of the bread and wine changes into the body and blood of Jesus Christ. The accidents of the bread and wine, their taste, smell, and appearance, remain the same, but deep down, the bread and wine no longer exist. They are completely Jesus Christ.” END QUOTES

MEANING OF THE “REAL PRESENCE”

The first definition of the Council of Trent is on the Catholic meaning of the Real Presence. The definition reads: "If anyone says that the Body and Blood together with His whole Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore the whole Christ, is truly, really and substantially contained in the Sacrament of the Most Holy Eucharist, but says that Christ is present in the Sacrament only as in a sign or figure or by His power, let him be anathema." (Session 13, can.1)

There are four key terms in this solemn definition: "the whole Christ," "truly," "really," and "substantially" contained. What are we being taught by these definitions?

We are being told that the Holy Eucharist means "the whole Christ." Everything which belongs to Christ - everything which makes “Christ” Christ ‑ is present in the Blessed Sacrament. This consequently means that Christ is present in His divinity as God and in His humanity as man. Christ is present in the Eucharist with His human body and human soul, with His bodily organs and limbs and with His human mind, will and feelings ‑ "the whole Christ." Latin reads Totus Christus.

Then we are told Christ is present "truly" and not only symbolically. He is present objectively and only subjectively in the minds of believers. He is contained in the Blessed Sacrament. Consequently, if our minds realize this objective fact, we possess the truth. There is no more precious truth revealed by Christ than the truth that He is on earth, the whole Christ in the Eucharist.

We are taught that Christ is "really" present and not only figuratively. The Eucharistic presence is not a metaphor or figure of speech. It is reality. Christ exists in the Holy Eucharist. During the century when this Real Presence was defined by the Council of Trent, St. Robert Bellarmine counted the number of meanings given to Christ's words at the Last Supper: "This is My Body, this is My Blood." He found among the Protestant scholars more than two hundred interpretations except the one which says Christ is "really" present in the Eucharist.

Finally, this definition tells us that Christ is present "substantially" and not merely by the exercise of His power. True, Christ is everywhere exercising His power. Thus, we can legitimately say that Christ is present in every person in the state of grace. Christ confers His grace on those who are in His friendship. But being in the state of grace is not the same as having the Real Presence of Christ in our bodies and souls.

The Real Presence in the Eucharist is absolutely unique. Christ is not present everywhere with the wholeness of His divinity and humanity ‑ only in the Eucharist. In the Eucharist, Christ is present in the fullness of His being.

There is an analogy which may help explain the distinction. When an American author writes a book that is published worldwide, is he present to those people in Japan who read what he has written? Is his influence present in their hearts and minds? Of course. But unless he flies to Tokyo, he is not "substantially" present to those people.

The Eucharistic Christ is present on earth not only in the sense that He exercises His divine influence on the hearts and minds of human beings. Christ Himself is "substantially" present on earth in the Blessed Sacrament. Only in the Eucharist is Christ present with the wholeness of His divinity and humanity.

That is the first defined dogma on the Real Presence: "the whole Christ" is "truly," "really," and "substantially" contained in the Eucharist.   END Father John A. Hardon

 

ACCIDENTS. Things whose essence naturally requires that they exist in another being. Accidents are also called the appearances, species, or properties of a thing. These may be either physical, such as quantity, or modal, such as size or shape. Supernaturally, accidents can exist, in the absence of their natural substance, as happens with the physical properties of bread and wine after Eucharistic consecration.

MASS. The Sacrifice of the Eucharist as the central act of worship of the Catholic Church. The "Mass" is a late form of missio (sending), from which the faithful are sent to put into practice what they have learned and use the graces they have received in the Eucharistic liturgy.

As defined by the Church at the Council of Trent, in the Mass, "The same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross, is present and offered in an unbloody manner." Consequently, the Mass is a truly propitiatory sacrifice, which means that by this oblation "the Lord is appeased, He grants grace and the gift of repentance, and He pardons wrongdoings and sins, even grave ones. For it is one and the same victim.

He who now makes the offering through the ministry of priests and he who then offered himself on the cross. The only difference is the manner of offering" (Denzinger 1743).

The Mass cannot be understood apart from Calvary, of which it is a re-presentation, memorial, and effective application of the merits gained by Christ.

The re-presentation {the very same being offered time and time again} means that because Christ is really present in his humanity, in heaven and on the altar, he is capable now as he was on Good Friday of freely offering himself to the Father. He can no longer die because he now has a glorified body, but the essence of his oblation remains the same.

The Mass is also a memorial. Christ's death is commemorated not only as a psychological remembrance but as a mystical reality. He voluntarily offers himself, the eternal high priest, as really as he did on Calvary.

The Mass is, moreover, a sacred banquet or paschal meal. The banquet aspect of the Mass is the reception of Holy Communion by the celebrant and the people, when the same Christ who offers himself to the Father as a sacrifice then gives himself to the faithful as their heavenly food. It was this fact that inspired the Holy See, after the Second Vatican Council, to restore the practice of receiving Communion under both kinds for all the faithful: "The entire tradition of the Church teaches that the faithful participate more perfectly in the Eucharistic celebration through sacramental Communion. By Communion, in fact, the faithful share more fully in the Eucharistic Sacrifice. In this way they are not limited to sharing in the sacrifice by faith and prayer, nor to merely spiritual communion with Christ offered on the altar, but receive Christ himself sacramentally, so as to receive more fully the fruits of this most holy sacrifice. In order that the fullness of the sign in the Eucharistic banquet may be seen more clearly by the faithful, the Second Vatican Council prescribed that in certain cases, to be decided by the Holy See, the faithful could receive Holy Communion under both species" (Sacramentali Communione, June 29, 1970).

Finally the Mass is the divinely ordained means of applying the merits of Calvary. Christ won for the world all the graces it needs for salvation and sanctification. But these blessings are conferred gradually and continually since Calvary and mainly through the Mass. Their measure of conferral is in proportion to the faith and loving response of the faithful who unite themselves in spirit with the Mass.

It is in this sense that the Mass is an oblation of the whole Mystical Body, head and members. Yet, among the faithful, some have been ordained priests and their role in the Mass is essentially different from that of the laity. The priest is indispensable, since he alone by his powers can change the elements of bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. Nevertheless the role of the participants is of great importance; not as though there would be no Mass without a congregation but because the people's "full, active and conscious participation will involve them in both body and soul and will inspire them with faith, hope and charity." "Go, [the congregation] is dismissed.") End Quotes Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary

WHAT Happens At Mass?

“Since the second century, the Mass (or the Eucharistic Liturgy) has had a structure that is common to all Catholics. While there can be different emphases during the celebration of Mass in Eastern Churches, they maintain the fundamental twofold structure with which members of the Latin Church are familiar. Thus, the Mass unfolds in two major parts that form a single act of worship. First, there is the Liturgy of the Word, with Scripture readings, homily, Profession of Faith, and General Intercessions. Second, there is the Liturgy of the Eucharist, with the presentation of the bread and wine, the Eucharistic Prayer, and the reception of Holy Communion. The essential elements of Eucharistic celebrations may be summarized in the following four points.

1. The Introductory Rites

The Christian community, united by the Holy Spirit, gathers for worship in response to God’s call. Jesus, our High Priest, is the principal agent of our celebration. The bishop or priest acts in the person of Christ, the Head of the Church. All the worshipers participate actively with interior devout attention and with external reverence shown by singing the hymns and giving the responses and, when appropriate, observing silence. There are also the deacon, the lectors, those who present the offerings, the extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, the altar servers, the musicians, and other ministers. This first movement contains the Introductory Rites, which begin the celebration of the Mass. These include the Penitential Rite, the Gloria, and the Opening Prayer.

Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that full, conscious and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy, and to which the Christian people, “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people” (1 Pt 2:9, 4-5) have a right and obligation by reason of their baptism. (SC, no. 14)

2. Liturgy of the Word

Over the course of the liturgical year, readings from Scripture, especially the Gospels, provide the heart of this part of the celebration. The proclamation of God’s Word and its explanation are meant to arouse our faith and prepare us for an ever deeper participation in the mystery of the Eucharist. The readings are followed by a homily from a bishop, priest, or deacon; the Profession of Faith in the recitation of the Creed; and intercessory prayers.

3. Liturgy of the Eucharist

a. The Preparation of the Gifts (Jesus took bread and wine). The offerings of bread and wine are received by the priest, who may be assisted by a deacon. “They will be offered by the priest in the name of Christ in the Eucharistic sacrifice in which they will become his Body and Blood” (CCC, no. 1350). From the earliest days of the Church, there was also an offering of gifts for the poor and needy. This has become the customary place and time for the parish collection.

b. The Eucharistic Prayer (Jesus blessed and gave thanks). This is the heart of the Eucharistic Liturgy, which unfolds in the following manner.

Thanksgiving (expressed especially in the Preface): In this prayer, we thank God the Father, through Christ in the Spirit, for the gifts of creation, salvation, and sanctification.

Acclamation: The whole congregation joins with the angels and saints in singing or saying the Sanctus (Holy, Holy).

Epiclesis (Invocation): The Church implores the power of the Holy Spirit to change the bread and wine offered by human hands into Christ’s Body and Blood.

Institution Narrative and Consecration: The priest proclaims Jesus’ words at the Last Supper over the bread and wine. “The power of the words and the action of Christ, and the power of the Holy Spirit, make sacramentally present, under the species of bread and wine, Christ’s Body and Blood, his sacrifice offered on the cross for all” (CCC, no. 1353).

Anamnesis (The Remembrance): We recall the death and Resurrection of Christ and look forward to his glorious return.

Second Epiclesis: The Holy Spirit is invoked upon the gathered community, to bring unity to the worshippers who will receive Holy Communion.

Intercessions: With the whole Communion of Saints and all God’s people on earth, we pray for the needs of all the members of the Church, living and dead.

Doxology and Great Amen: We conclude the Eucharistic Prayer with praise of God the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ, in the Holy Spirit. This glorification is confirmed and concluded by the people’s acclamation “Amen.”

c. Communion Rite (Jesus broke the bread and gave his Body and Blood). After the Lord’s Prayer, the Lamb of God is sung or said during the breaking of the Body of Christ, or fraction, then we receive the Body and Blood of Christ in Holy Communion. The Communion Rite concludes with a closing prayer.

4. Concluding Rite

Following the prayer after Holy Communion, the priest blesses the people and dismisses the assembly.

Centuries of reflection on the Eucharist have left us a spiritual heritage that continues to deepen and grow. Three key truths about the Eucharist draw our attention: it is a Sacrifice, a Holy Meal, and the Real Presence of Christ.

You can read more from the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults, order your own copy, or read questions about it at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops website.

” END QUOTES

So NOW the BIG Question for non-Catholic Christians: Yea BUT is it in the BIBLE?

The issue of unbelief by many Christians is actually pure “IGNORANCE”, that is a lack of correct understanding, wrought by a perceived “right” of self-interpretation of the Bible; which frankly is forbidden by the Bible itself.

2 Peter 1: [16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [17] For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," [18] we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. [19] And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. [20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy {meaning “understanding”} of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, [21] because no prophecy {CORRECT UNDERSTANDING} ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Douay Bible explanation 20 "No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation"... This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise

The Bibles OWN Testimony: And for this exercise I will use the King James AND the Catholic Douay Bibles. The KJV will be listed first then the Douay Bible. …. Oh lest you’re tempted to claim that the RCC changed the BIBLE; it is historically provable that that Douay Bible NT was translated into English about 30 years PRIOR to the King James in German.

“Many anti-Catholics accuse the Church of having hidden Scripture from the faithful by refusing to translate them into the vernacular tongue.

The Douay-Rheims provides a particularly telling counterexample. It was completed in 1609, making it older than the KJV, which was not published until 1611. The fact that the Rheims New Testament was published in 1582 meant that it appeared almost thirty years before the KJV New Testament.” END QUOTES

 

Mt. 26:26-28

NV 26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."R

HE 26 And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread and blessed and broke and gave to his disciples and said: Take ye and eat. This is my body.NK

JV 27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.RH

E 27 And taking the chalice, he gave thanks and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this.

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.

Mk. 14: 22-24

NV 22 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."R

HE 22 And whilst they were eating, Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke and gave to them and said: Take ye. This is my body.N

V 23 Then He took the cup, and when He had given thanks He gave it to them, and they all drank from it.R

E 23 And having taken the chalice, giving thanks, he gave it to them. And they all drank of it.NKJ

V 24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.RH

E 24 And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many.

Lk. 22: 19-20

19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."R

19 And taking bread, he gave thanks and brake and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.

20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

20 In like manner, the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the New Testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.

John 6:47-57

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life

47 Amen, amen, I say unto you: He that believeth in me hath everlasting life

48 I am the bread of lifeRHE 

48 I am the bread of life

49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the desert: and are dead

50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven that one may eat of it and not die

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven: that if any man eat of it, he may not die

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. (6-52) If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?"RHE 

52 (6-53) The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat?NKJV 

53 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you

53 (6-54) Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you

54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day

54 (6-55) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed

55 (6-56) For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed

56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

56 (6-57) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him

57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.RHE 

57 (6-58) As the living Father hath sent me and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     New King James Version

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible

John 6:65-69

65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

65 (6-66) And he said: Therefore did I say to you that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more

66 (6-67) After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with {MEANS Abandoned Him}him.

67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"

67 (6-68) Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away?

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life

68 (6-69) And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.

69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

69 (6-70) And we have believed and have known that thou art the Christ, the Son of God.

Paul 1st Cor. 11:23-30

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread

24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me."

24 And giving thanks, broke and said: Take ye and eat: This is my body, which shall be delivered for you. This do for the commemoration of me

25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the New Testament in my blood. This do YOU, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

27 Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice

29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep

30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you: and many sleep. {This means are self-condemned to HELL unless they REPENT and Convert}

END BIBLE QUOTES

Summation:

First: all of the above is testified as being the literal truth through the sacrificial offering of  their BLOOD to by Five different Catholic Authors of the New Testament; three of who are members of the 12 Apostles; four of who gave their very lives in grotesque way’s {and they attempted to BOIL John also but Jesus saved him}. There was, and there is no single issue or point of belief of greater significance of importance than the issue of the REAL PRESENCE as deified earlier in this document; profoundly, because it actually IS the very Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.  

How does it Happen?

1 It has to be {and can be} only accomplished by an Ordained Catholic Or Orthodox Priest; who have verifiable Direct Apostolic Succession: “{YOU}DO THIS in Commemoration of ME”}

2 The Eucharist is:

FROM God the Father

OF God the Son

BY God the Holy Spirit {through His Priest}

This is a Mystery wrapped up in two consecutive miracles

   First miracle: at the very instant of the Consecration/ Traunsbstanuation; the Priest is miraculously transformed into an “alter Chrtius” {another Christ}

With the WORDS:

This IS MY Body

This IS MY Blood

The ordinary is transformed into the EXTRAORDINARY

    Secondly: the Holy Spirt THROUGH His Priest {Miracle #2} is empowered to transform what looks, smells, taste, and feels like ordinary {unleavened bread and wine} into the LITERAL Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of the NOW GLORIFIED Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus IN Person.  

    Third: It is to be noted that this is the Original Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross RE-PRESENTED; Not represented ; That is to say: even Jesus can only die once; so this Sacrifice of Jesus is “repeated” in its original form and action until time eternal.

The practice of religious believes is termed “faith” precisely because THAT is what God expects from each of us. Are we to presume that GOD cannot do this?

Mt. 28: 20 {ALSO Literal} “ [20] {YOU}Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

   Forth: This Dogma of the Catholic Faith is the very foundation of ALL forms of Christianity: …If THIS is not true; then Christianity itself id a lie.

   Fifth:  There exist no greater; no more compelling reason to be an informed Practicing Catholic than this REALITY; which miracle of MIRACLES allows humanity to confront, to meet ALMIGHTHY GOD on His terms while still here on earth.

   Sixth: This is SUCH a critically important belief that God has performed multiple Eucharistic Miracles to AID the unbelievers in their unbelief; Do NOT be another Doubting Thomas:

John 20: 24-29 “ [24] Now Thomas, one of the twelve, who is called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. [25]The other disciples therefore said to him: We have seen the Lord. But he said to them: Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe. [26] And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said: Peace be to you. [27] Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.[28] Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God. [29] Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.” 

Seventh: I have here in my office a photograph taken by a fellow Marian Catechist, of Father John A. Hardon S.J. {a mentor and occasional teacher of mine; may he Rest in Peace} taken in 1998 {if memory serves} where Father after Mass was placing Jesus on “display” for ADORATON, and a miracle took place and the actual FACE of Jesus appeared on the Consecrated host. {Termed Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament} As a FYI: Jesus does miracles to AID the faith of someone. No doubt in MY opinion; there was someone {likely a Catholic}present who doubted the Real Presence; and confided the same to Father; who prayed for a Miracle of Faith. {I’m going to attempt to attached it here; but I don’t really know HOW to do so, so I’ll attempt to Copy and Paste it here.} IN ANY CASE I SUGGEST YOU GOOLGE “Eucharistic Miracles” which ALL are independently investigated by non-Catholic experts before they are attested as Miracles by the RCC.  

I pray my friend, that THIS answers your excellent and courageous question. Thank you;

Patrick {see the file attached}

 

 

 

 

 

Fr Hardon and Christ in the Eucharist.docx

Transubstantiation, by this doctrine the priest a mere simple sinful man pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of the people during Mass.



The Gospel condemns such absurdities. Holy Communion is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ (Luke 22:19, 20; John 6:35; 1 Cor:11:26).



Not one man on this earth has the power or authority to call Jesus down from Heaven and change a wafer of bread into His body and a cup of wine into His blood, and then, when finished eating Him, LOCK THE LEFT OVERS INTO A TABERNACLE.



I have witnessed, as an alter boy, the priest wipe the cup out and the dish and crumbs of the plate with a cloth during mass, after communion was over and then throw the cloth into the dirty clothes bin in the sacristy after mass. It if truly was Jesus Christ, then He was eventually thrown into the washing machine and end up down the drain?



No matter what words are spoken over the bread and wine during the catholic mass by a priest, a bishop, and even the Pope, its still nothing more than bread and wine.



Jesus Christ in His flesh and blood body now sits at His Fathers right hand and is not being eaten.



The life of all flesh is the blood just as Jesus is the life of all human beings who accept Him. When He says you must eat my flesh and drink my blood, and in doing so symbolicly in rememberance of Him we accept eternal life. Jesus called Himself the bread of God! "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world" (John 6:63).. "Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." (John 6:33-35).





Many of Jesus's disciples knowing God's aversion to drinking blood alone were perplexed by Jesus saying believers must drink His blood. They thought He meant they were to literally drink His blood, but this was not so and He explained this in John6:63.



"Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" ( John 6:60:63).

Many followers mumbled asking how one can literally eat Jesus's flesh and drink His blood. Jesus explained it clearly, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63).



Literal flesh profiteth nothing the words Jesus spoke were are spirit and THEY are life. We are to physically remember Him through eating literal bread and drinking literal wine and in doing so we are spiritually eating His Words and spiritually becoming one with Him.



Scripture proves the Lords supper is the outward rite in which believers eat broken bread, not flesh, and drink the fruit of the vine, not blood. to COMMEMORATE the broken body and the shed blood of Jesus Christ until He comes again (Matt. 26:26-30; Mark 14:17-25; Luke 22:14-20; 1 Cor. 11:20-30), there really is no excuse for believing otherwise.

 

 

After supper Jesus Himself called the wine what it really is. He never said; "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this blood with you until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. He called it fruit of the vine, which is remained. The wine and bread symbolised Jesus flesh and blood.

 

Mat 26:29

But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

 

Mar 14:25

Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

 

Luke 22:18

For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

 

 

 John 6:63, It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

It is the spirit that quickeneth. This must be understood figuratively of the benefits of His sacrifice. 

I will give this bread which symbolizes My body given in death to save the world.

1 Peter 2:  24, Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

Col. 1: 20, And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

Col. 2:14-17, 

  14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 

    16, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    17, Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

The flesh profiteth nothing: If you could literally eat my flesh and drink My blood it would not save your souls.

 

The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. The life I speak of is spiritual and eternal life, not flesh life. 

2 Cor.3: 6, Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Hebrews 4: 12, For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

 

[Patrick Miron]

3 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Transubstantiation, by this doctrine the priest a mere simple sinful man pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of the people during Mass.



The Gospel condemns such absurdities. Holy Communion is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ (Luke 22:19, 20; John 6:35; 1 Cor:11:26).



Not one man on this earth has the power or authority to call Jesus down from Heaven and change a wafer of bread into His body and a cup of wine into His blood, and then, when finished eating Him, LOCK THE LEFT OVERS INTO A TABERNACLE.



I have witnessed, as an alter boy, the priest wipe the cup out and the dish and crumbs of the plate with a cloth during mass, after communion was over and then throw the cloth into the dirty clothes bin in the sacristy after mass. It if truly was Jesus Christ, then He was eventually thrown into the washing machine and end up down the drain?



No matter what words are spoken over the bread and wine during the catholic mass by a priest, a bishop, and even the Pope, its still nothing more than bread and wine.



Jesus Christ in His flesh and blood body now sits at His Fathers right hand and is not being eaten.



The life of all flesh is the blood just as Jesus is the life of all human beings who accept Him. When He says you must eat my flesh and drink my blood, and in doing so symbolicly in rememberance of Him we accept eternal life. Jesus called Himself the bread of God! "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world" (John 6:63).. "Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." (John 6:33-35).





Many of Jesus's disciples knowing God's aversion to drinking blood alone were perplexed by Jesus saying believers must drink His blood. They thought He meant they were to literally drink His blood, but this was not so and He explained this in John6:63.



"Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" ( John 6:60:63).

Many followers mumbled asking how one can literally eat Jesus's flesh and drink His blood. Jesus explained it clearly, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63).



Literal flesh profiteth nothing the words Jesus spoke were are spirit and THEY are life. We are to physically remember Him through eating literal bread and drinking literal wine and in doing so we are spiritually eating His Words and spiritually becoming one with Him.



Scripture proves the Lords supper is the outward rite in which believers eat broken bread, not flesh, and drink the fruit of the vine, not blood. to COMMEMORATE the broken body and the shed blood of Jesus Christ until He comes again (Matt. 26:26-30; Mark 14:17-25; Luke 22:14-20; 1 Cor. 11:20-30), there really is no excuse for believing otherwise.

 

 

After supper Jesus Himself called the wine what it really is. He never said; "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this blood with you until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. He called it fruit of the vine, which is remained. The wine and bread symbolised Jesus flesh and blood.

 

Mat 26:29

But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

 

Mar 14:25

Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

 

Luke 22:18

For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

 

 

 John 6:63, It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

It is the spirit that quickeneth. This must be understood figuratively of the benefits of His sacrifice. 

I will give this bread which symbolizes My body given in death to save the world.

1 Peter 2:  24, Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

Col. 1: 20, And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

Col. 2:14-17, 

  14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 

    16, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    17, Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

The flesh profiteth nothing: If you could literally eat my flesh and drink My blood it would not save your souls.

 

The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. The life I speak of is spiritual and eternal life, not flesh life. 

2 Cor.3: 6, Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Hebrews 4: 12, For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

Friend, FINAL Judgment WILL BE based on what God has made possible for US to know, May HE guide our life paths,

Patrick

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HAZARD]

30 minutes ago, Patrick Miron said:

 

He tells us that He is sitting at the Fathers right hand in Heaven at this time, not locked up in small pieces in tabernacles around the world waiting to be literally consumed.

Is Christ dead when they eat Him or is He being eaten alive?

Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 

Christ is seated at the Fathers right hand in Heaven, not being eaten alive or dead by people on Earth.

Eph. 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 

[Patrick Miron]

2 hours ago, Patrick Miron said:

 

Friend, either you failed to READ the entirety of my response; or your lacking the necessary grace for right understanding.

May Jesus guide your life path,

Patrick

[Concretecamper]

Jesus say that the bread IS His flesh, that's enough for me.  And evidently it was enough for the early Church too.

[KiwiChristian]

Transubstantiation is a false doctrine because Jesus is not a liar: In Mt 26:29 after Jesus had said, "this is my blood" and prayed, he still referred to the contents as, "fruit of the vine". If transubstantiation of the juice into blood had occurred, as both Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches say it was at this time, then Jesus would never have referred to it as "fruit of the vine' but rather "blood".

This proves that when Jesus said "take eat & drink" he LITERALLY gave them bread and juice. In like manner, Paul also refers to the elements of the Lord's Supper as "eat this bread and drink the cup" in 1 Cor 11:26 after they should be transubstantiated.

The mass is a re-sacrificing of Christ. "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner," (CCC, 1367). What does the Catechism mean here?

Heb.7:27 "Who needeth NOT daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself."

[DignifiedResponse]

“Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” – Luke 22:36

“For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.” – Luke 22:37

“And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords (*). And he said unto them, It is enough.” – Luke 22:38

(*Simon Peter, being one, and the other likely being Simon the Zealot; the two Simons.  Any system which is like that today, and even claims to be of Simon's spiritual descent?)

What did Jesus mean?

Did the disciples understand Jesus’ words about the selling of the garment and the buying of a sword?

The disciples still misunderstood Jesus’ spiritual meanings with physical meanings, even after so long a time with Him.  Jesus was not talking about physical weapons.

John 1:19-25 (John the Baptist as Elijah)
John 2:19-22 (Temple of His body)
John 3:1-21 (Nicodemus, Born Again)
John 4:7-15 (Woman a the Well, Water)
John 4:31-34 (Meat to Eat, Water to Drink)
John 5:6-7 (Will you be made whole, Pool)
John 6:50-52 (Eat my Flesh, Word)
John 7:38-39 (Water out of the belly, Spirit)
Matthew 16:5-12 (Leaven, Bread)

So when it comes to John 6 and the Last Supper, the same issue still exists.

Luk_22:38  And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

So:

Luk_22:20  Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Mat_26:29  But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

[createdequal]

On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:28 PM, DignifiedResponse said:

Now, let's begin with a few official definitions from Roman Catholicism, on what 'transubstantiation', so that none may argue that the correct definition was not given.

 

"The "Transubstantiation" of the "Eucharist":

" ... when the priest consecrates bread and wine, so that they become Christ's body and Christ's blood. ...

... But in these two instances, the bread and wine of the Eucharist, the mind is not left to itself. By the revelation of Christ it knows that the substance has been changed, in the one case into the substance of his body, in the other into the substance of his blood. ...

... The accidents remain in their totality-for example, that which was wine and is now Christ's blood still has the smell of wine, the intoxicating power of wine. ...

... All we shall say here is that his body is wholly present ... " [EWTN online; Frank J. Sheed; Taken from Theology for Beginners © 1981 by Frank J. Sheed, Chapter 18.] - http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/eucha4.htm

Another:

"... Bishops and priests being, as they are, God's interpreters and ambassadors, empowered in His name to teach mankind the divine law and the rules of conduct, and holding, as they do, His place on earth, it is evident that no nobler function than theirs can be imagined. Justly, therefore, are they called not only Angels, but even gods, because of the fact that they exercise in our midst the power and prerogatives of the immortal God.

In all ages, priests have been held in the highest honour; yet the priests of the New Testament far exceed all others. For the power of consecrating and offering the body and blood of our Lord and of forgiving sins, which has been conferred on them, not only has nothing equal or like to it on earth, but even surpasses human reason and understanding.. ..." [Source: The Catechism of the Council of Trent (The Roman Catechism), Sacrament of Holy Orders, Dignity of this Sacrament.] - http://catholicapologetics.info/thec...s-Orders.shtml

 

Another:

 

“...we find in obedience to the words of his priests - Hoc est Corpus Meum - God Himself descends on the altar, that he comes whenever they call Him; and as often as they call Him, and places Himself in their hands, even though they should be His enemies.

And after having come, he remains, entirely at their disposal; they move Him as they please, from one place to another; they may, if they wish, shut Him up in the tabernacle, expose Him on the altar, or carry Him outside the church; they may, if they choose, eat His flesh, and give Him for the food of others. ; Oh how great is their power!” [“The Dignity of the Priesthood”, by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, p. 9; http://www.freewebs.com/wallmell/Lig...iesPriest.pdf] - http://web.archive.org/web/201301201...tiesPriest.pdf

 

Another:

 

"...one place to another...", even in a little black bag... [Link, beware]

  "... Thus the priest may, in a certain manner, be called the creator of his Creator, since by saying the words of consecration, he creates, as it were, Jesus in the sacrament, by giving him a sacramental existence, and produces him as a victim to be offered to the eternal Father.

As in creating the world it was sufficient for God to have said, Let it be made, and it was created He spoke, and they were made? 1 so it is sufficient for the priest to say, " Hoc est corpus meum," and behold the bread is no longer bread, but the body of Jesus Christ. "The power of the priest," says St. Bernardine of Sienna," is the power of the divine person; for the transubstantiation of the bread requires as much power as the creation of the world." 2 And St. Augustine has written," O venerable sanctity of the hands! O happy function of the priest ! He that created (if I may say so) gave me the power to create him; and he that created me without me is himself created by me!" 3! As the Word of God created heaven and earth, so, says St. Jerome, the words of the priest create Jesus Christ." - The Dignity of the Priesthood”, by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, p. 11 - http://web.archive.org/web/201301201...tiesPriest.pdf   Another:   "... He has given him power over the body of Jesus Christ, he has placed in his hands the keys of paradise, he has raised him above all the kings of the earth, and above all the angels in heaven; in a word, he has made him, as it were, a God on earth: " A God on earth." ...

... 1 " Deus terrenus." ..." - The Dignity of the Priesthood”, by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, p. 26 - http://web.archive.org/web/201301201...tiesPriest.pdf   Another:   "In this moment, the priest quite literally becomes Christ Himself: his own personality is blotted out; it is absorbed in that of the everlasting priest who is, at one time, the offered victim and the supreme officiant." - This is The Mass, Henri Daniel-Rops, Fulton J. Sheen, Yousuf Karsh, trans. with annotations by Alastair Guinan, New York: Hawthorn Books, Inc., 1965. First ed. 1958, p. 118. Nihil Obstat: Robert E. Hunt, S.T. D., Censor Librorum. Imprimatur: Thomas A. Boland, S.T.D. Archbishop of Newark.   "… of the body and blood of the Lord under the species of bread and wine …

… Eucharistic worship is therefore precisely the expression of that love which is the authentic and deepest characteristic of the Christian vocation. …

… It has the appearance of bread and wine, that is to say of food and drink …

… In the encyclical Redemptor hominis(33) I have already drawn attention to the close link between the sacrament of Penance and the sacrament of the Eucharist. It is not only that Penance leads to the Eucharist, but that the Eucharist also leads to Penance. …

… There is a close link between this element of the Eucharist and its sacredness, that is to say, its being a holy and sacred action. Holy and sacred, because in it are the continual presence and action of Christ, "the Holy One" of God,(36) "anointed with the Holy Spirit,"(37) "consecrated by the Father"(38) to lay down His life of His own accord and to take it up again,(39) and the High Priest of the New Covenant.(40) For it is He who, represented by the celebrant, makes His entrance into the sanctuary and proclaims His Gospel. …

… The priest offers the holy Sacrifice in persona Christi; this means more than offering "in the name of' or "in place of' Christ. In persona means in specific sacramental identification with "the eternal High Priest"(42) who is the author and principal subject of this sacrifice of His, a sacrifice in which, in truth, nobody can take His place. …

… 9. The Eucharist is above all else a sacrifice. It is the sacrifice of the Redemption and also the sacrifice of the New Covenant,(46) ...

… All who participate with faith in the Eucharist become aware that it is a "sacrifice," that is to say, a "consecrated Offering." For the bread and wine presented at the altar and accompanied by the devotion and the spiritual sacrifices of the participants are finally consecrated, so as to become truly, really and substantially Christ's own body that is given up and His blood that is shed. Thus, by virtue of the consecration, the species of bread and wine re-present (50) in a sacramental, unbloody manner the bloody propitiatory sacrifice offered by Him on the cross to His Father for the salvation of the world. …

… Nevertheless, there are also those people who, having been educated on the basis of the old liturgy in Latin, experience the lack of this "one language," which in all the world was an expression of the unity of the Church and through its dignified character elicited a profound sense of the Eucharistic Mystery. It is therefore necessary to show not only understanding but also full respect towards these sentiments and desires. As far as possible these sentiments and desires are to be accommodated, as is moreover provided for in the new dispositions.(55) The Roman Church has special obligations towards Latin, the splendid language of ancient Rome, and she must manifest them whenever the occasion presents itself. ..." - LETTER; DOMINICAE CENAE; OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF; JOHN PAUL II; TO ALL THE BISHOPS OF THE CHURCH; ON THE MYSTERY AND WORSHIP; OF THE EUCHARIST - http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-pa...cae-cenae.html
Another:   “Hence Christ is present in the sacrament with His Flesh and Blood, Body and Soul, Humanity and Divinity. ...

... In the absence of Scriptural proof, the Church finds a warrant for, and a propriety in, rendering Divine worship to the Blessed Sacrament in the most ancient and constant tradition...” - Transubstantiation, Catholic Encyclopedia; - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm   Another:   “We believe that the Mass, celebrated by the priest representing the person of Christ by virtue of the power received through the Sacrament of Orders, and offered by him in the name of Christ and the members of His Mystical Body, is the sacrifice of Calvary rendered sacramentally present on our altars. We believe that as the bread and wine consecrated by the Lord at the Last Supper were changed into His body and His blood which were to be offered for us on the cross, likewise the bread and wine consecrated by the priest are changed into the body and blood of Christ enthroned gloriously in heaven, and we believe that the mysterious presence of the Lord, under what continues to appear to our senses as before, is a true, real and substantial presence. ...

... Christ cannot be thus present in this sacrament except by the change into His body of the reality itself of the bread and the change into His blood of the reality itself of the wine, leaving unchanged only the properties of the bread and wine which our senses perceive. This mysterious change is very appropriately called by the Church transubstantiation. Every theological explanation which seeks some understanding of this mystery must, in order to be in accord with Catholic faith, maintain that in the reality itself, independently of our mind, the bread and wine have ceased to exist after the Consecration, so that it is the adorable body and blood of the Lord Jesus that from then on are really before us under the sacramental species of bread and wine, as the Lord willed it, in order to give Himself to us as food and to associate us with the unity of His Mystical Body. ...

... The unique and indivisible existence of the Lord glorious in heaven is not multiplied, but is rendered present by the sacrament in the many places on earth where Mass is celebrated. And this existence remains present, after the sacrifice, in the Blessed Sacrament which is, in the tabernacle, the living heart of each of our churches. And it is our very sweet duty to honor and adore in the blessed Host which our eyes see, the Incarnate Word whom they cannot see, and who, without leaving heaven, is made present before us.” - The Credo of the People of God, Promulgated by Pope Paul VI on June 30, 1968, Catholic Encyclopedia, http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_pa06cr.htm   Another:   “It should go without saying--but we'll say it anyway--that there never can be any explicit denial of transubstantiation contained in the words used by the priest. He can't say such things as “This is my body if you accept it by faith” or “This is a symbol of my blood.” ...” - Quick Questions 1994, Catholic Encyclopedia Almanac, http://www.newadvent.org/library/almanac_thisrock94.htm   “The priest says: Hoc est corpus meum, he has to say it for the validity of the consecration. Meum! But it is not he who says these words; his voice indeed we hear, but he is only the instrument of the Sovereign Priest: our Lord speaks through His minister. The glory of this minister consists precisely in disappearing, in allowing Jesus to act through his personality: Sacerdos alter Christus. This Christ now offering Himself to God by the hands of the priest is the same Christ who is in heaven. Same happiness, same power, same majesty. He is performing the same acts, offering the same adorations, the same thanksgiving, the same prayers. He, the object of the beatitude of the elect, is now in the hands of the priest: Agnoscite quod agitis. But if really the priest causes our Lord to be present on the altar, if he offers Him, whilst Jesus is now in heaven, have we not to conclude that it is from the very bosom of the Father that the priest draws this divine Victim? Agnoscite quod agitis.” - Our Priesthood, by the Rev. Joseph Bruneau, S.S.D.D.; Professor of Dogmatic Theology at St. Mary;s Seminary; Baltimore, MD.; B. Herder 17 South Broadway St. Louis, MO. 68 Great Russell St. LONDON, W.C. 1911 Nihil Obstat; M.F. Dinneen, S.S., D.D.; Censor deputatus; Imprimatur; [Maltese Cross] James Card. Gibbons; Baltimore; Feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin; 1911 - https://archive.org/stream/ourpriest.../n156/mode/1up

Another:

"... Power of Consecrating

The third great power of the priestly office is the climax of all. It is the power of consecrating. "No act is greater," says saint Thomas, "than the consecration of the body of Christ." In this essential phase of the sacred ministry, the power of the priest is not surpassed by that of the bishop, the archbishop, the cardinal or the pope. Indeed it is equal to that of Jesus Christ. For in this role the priest speaks with the voice and the authority of God Himself.

When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heaven, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the victim for the sins of man. It is a power greater than that of monarchs and emperors. It is greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim. Indeed, it is greater than the power of the Virgin Mary. While the blessed virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal victim for the sins of man-not once, but, a thousand times! The priest speaks and lo! Christ the eternal and omnipotent God, bows His head in humble obedience to the priest's command.

[pg.271] Of what sublime dignity is the office of the Christian priest who is thus privileged to act as the ambassador and the vicegerent of Christ on earth. He continues the essential ministry of Christ - he teaches the faithful with the authority of Christ, he offers up again the same sacrifice of adoration and atonement which Christ offered on Calvary. No wonder that the name which spiritual writers are especially fond of applying to the priest is that of "alter Christus." For the priest is and should be another Christ. ..." - Faith of Millions, by Reverend John A. O'brien, Copyright 1938, published by Our Sunday Visitor, Huntington Indiana, - http://www.biblelight.net/mass.htm or http://www.biblelight.net/vatican.htm also found in [Several sources link]

That which is an "alter-Christus", or "another Christ" and "in the place of Christ" "on earth".

I do not want to misrepresent the actual statements, nor belief of the Roman Catholic position (though I know it to be unscriptural). The statements are as they are given, just highlighted, with the knowledge of 30 years experience as a Roman Catholic myself, who once worked in a specialized ministry for a brief time, dealing with the 'canonized saints' (of Roman Catholicism), the 'miracles' (Lourdes, Fatima, Guadalupe, etc.), and pilgrimmage sites likewise.

According to the Roman Catholic Dogma of the "Transubstantiation" the "elements" of the "Bread" and [fermented/"intoxicating"] "wine" remain outwardly in appearance as 'food' [bread] and 'drink' [wine], yet the are to be believed by the Roman Catholic faithful to actually be "under the auspices of" those outward "elements" the actual "sacrifice", the actual "body" [flesh] and "blood" of the LORD Jesus Christ upon Calvary.

Please take notice, that they are actually to believe they are eating the human flesh and the human blood of the Passover Sacrifice - Jesus... which Scripture forbids. In fact, some actually turn to blood in the mouth of the receiver [as Julia Kim, etc].

I am afraid I became a little lost trying to decipher what all this post is trying to say...

My brain got tired and I decided not to bother trying to figure it out. I already have Jesus in the way he wanted humans to have him, through his Church. If you are criticizing Transubstantiation, well, I will address THAT (although cannot ascertain whether or not htat is what you are doing)

Criticize away...

Some of us know "it" is real. I pity those who do not understand and do not try to understand. Will God forgive them for not pursuing the truth of the Church Christ founded?

God alone knows. There is ignorance and there is invincible ignorance...

[createdequal]

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 5:46 PM, Concretecamper said:

Jesus say that the bread IS His flesh, that's enough for me.  And evidently it was enough for the early Church too.

yes, isn't it interesting that those IBelieveTheBibleOnly people do not believe the Bible when it comes to this passage (and others)?

[simplejeff]

On 11/4/2018 at 12:45 AM, KiwiChristian said:

Transubstantiation is a false doctrine because Jesus is not a liar: In Mt 26:29 after Jesus had said, "this is my blood" and prayed, he still referred to the contents as, "fruit of the vine". If transubstantiation of the juice into blood had occurred, as both Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches say it was at this time, then Jesus would never have referred to it as "fruit of the vine' but rather "blood".

This proves that when Jesus said "take eat & drink" he LITERALLY gave them bread and juice. In like manner, Paul also refers to the elements of the Lord's Supper as "eat this bread and drink the cup" in 1 Cor 11:26 after they should be transubstantiated.

The mass is a re-sacrificing of Christ. "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner," (CCC, 1367). What does the Catechism mean here?

Heb.7:27 "Who needeth NOT daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself."

Amen - it (the rc practice, doctrine and teaching) is indeed an abomination directly opposed to Scripture and is from an enemy of Yahuweh(G0d) and brings death to those who trust or allow or believe it.

On 9/26/2018 at 7:46 PM, Concretecamper said:

Jesus say that the bread IS His flesh, that's enough for me.  And evidently it was enough for the early Church too.

"enough" ?    So likewise leaving out Jesus' Own Explanation ?   Thus not gaining understanding of the Reality ? 

Or do you really truly believe Jesus would make Himself an abominable transgressor, a sinner,  doing what His Father in Heaven FORBIDS ?

47 minutes ago, createdequal said:

yes, isn't it interesting that those IBelieveTheBibleOnly people do not believe the Bible when it comes to this passage (and others)?

Likewise,   'when it comes to this passage',   you chose also to believe that a transgression is being promoted by Jesus Himself !?!?  Astonishing !   And IMPOSSIBLE!