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Manifestations of the Spirit

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1 hour ago, rrobs said:
1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said:

So then along with speaking in tongues ability you also have accidental snake  bite venom immunity . 

That is pretty awesome , but what would be the consecrated purpose of either one of those in 2018 ?

                                                                                              " John did no miracle "    ( John 10 : 41 )

What's the value of John 3:16 in 2018?

Is there a list of relevant and non-relevant verses for the modern 2018 world anywhere that you know of, or is it left to each individual to decide which parts of the scriptures are still true?

I thought you were talking about the " manifestation "   of speaking in tongues ?

How strange to have such a miraculous  manifestation  from God and then lack the capacity to discuss its God given consecrated purpose ?

It is your thread however and given your  distress at discussing the holy consecrated purpose of your miraculous manifestation you are certainly allowed to change the subject . 

Personally I find confidence, sufficient strength , and Blessed assurance in speaking in depth about all the Divine  duties and responsibilities He has entrusted to me to perform , as well as the burdens He has called upon me to bear .

                                                                                                  " As thy days , so shall thy strength be "  ( Deuteronomy 33 :25 )

 

Edited by Unfailing Presence

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1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said:

I thought you were talking about the " manifestation "   of speaking in tongues ?

How strange to have such a miraculous  manifestation  from God and then lack the capacity to discuss its God given consecrated purpose ?

It is your thread however and given your  distress at discussing the holy consecrated purpose of your miraculous manifestation you are certainly allowed to change the subject . 

Personally I find confidence, sufficient strength , and Blessed assurance in speaking in depth about all the Divine  duties and responsibilities He has entrusted to me to perform , as well as the burdens He has called upon me to bear .

                                                                                                  " As thy days , so shall thy strength be "  ( Deuteronomy 33 :25 )

 

My point was this: if you can say speaking in tongues is foolishness in 2018, then I ought to be able to say John 3:16 is foolishness in 2018. Either the whole Bible is of God or none of it is of God.

Perhaps you are suggesting that the manifestations are no longer needed because, "that which is perfect is come." That's a common doctrine at any rate. I think it said that the "perfect" thing was the scriptures, that once the Bible was fully given we didn't need the manifestations. While the scriptures are indeed "perfect" now, the truth is they've been perfect since Moses wrote the word, "In."

The word "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13:10 comes from the Greek word "telos" which basically means the final end of something. The tip of a dogs tail would be the "telos" of that dog. It is also used, in 1 Corinthians.

1Cor 15:24,

Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The word end is that same Greek word, "telos." All you need do is read the whole chapter (1 Cor 15) to see it is speaking of the time to come when the book of Revelations occur. Until Christ returns and sets up the kingdom God promised to Israel things are far from perfect. For starters the devil is called "the god of this world" (2 Cor 4:4). He's not called that without reason. He is called, "the prince of the power of the air" (Eph 2:2) He is said to be a roaring lion who walks around seeking someone to devour (1 Pet 5:8).

Satan is not put down just yet. He will be when Christ comes back, not as a sheep for the slaughter, but as King of Kings and Lord of Lords! They won't humiliate him the next time he sets foot on this earth. They sure won't crucify him the next time either. He'll be coming to kick some devil butt!

Then, and not until then, everything will indeed be perfect and we certainly won't need the manifestation then. Personally, until then I don't want to operate behind enemy lines (of this world but not of it). I can't imagine fighting that bird with my own confidence, strength, and assurance. I have nothing in myself with which to wage the spiritual warfare we are all in. I'd be dead in a microsecond, and I know that. I need all the power of God's gift to me, holy spirit. That is where I look when the fiery darts head my way. I don't see any other way to utilize that gift other than what is written in 1 Corinthians 12:8-9. If it's not in the scriptures it's meaningless to me. I don't want to take the chance of battling with nothing but tradition on my side. I want all the power of God and He is supremely happy to indulge me because He loves me that much, and He loves it when the devil slinks off whimpering like a hurt puppy!

Edited by rrobs

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1 hour ago, rrobs said:
2 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

I thought you were talking about the " manifestation "   of speaking in tongues ?

How strange to have such a miraculous  manifestation  from God and then lack the capacity to discuss its God given consecrated purpose ?

It is your thread however and given your  distress at discussing the holy consecrated purpose of your miraculous manifestation you are certainly allowed to change the subject . 

Personally I find confidence, sufficient strength , and Blessed assurance in speaking in depth about all the Divine  duties and responsibilities He has entrusted to me to perform , as well as the burdens He has called upon me to bear .

                                                                                                  " As thy days , so shall thy strength be "  ( Deuteronomy 33 :25 )

 

My point was this: if you can say speaking in tongues is foolishness in 2018, then I ought to be able to say John 3:16 is foolishness in 2018. Either the whole Bible is of God or none of it is of God

  John 3 :16 did not exist as a resource for others  when the Apostles spoke in tongues .

Thus their consecrated purpose of speaking in tongues . 

And by pointing to the fact that we in 2018 have the spiritual resource of John 3 :16  available to everybody you have , unwittingly I might add ,  explained your own inability to  detail any 

account of your " manifestation  " purpose in being publicly transacted to the divine benefit of others . 

Divine purpose is only realized by doing for others.

You have described doing nothing for nobody with your  " manifestation" .

A person whose focus is self will always be similarly circumscribed and weakened in their witness .

 

                                                                                                      " Prove all things , hold fast to that which is good ."  ( 1 Thessalonians 5 : 21 )

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, rrobs said:

Great! What the heck are we arguing about then? God bless...

Have you not taken the time to read my posts in this thread?

I am arguing that speaking in tongues is not a requirement that all Christians must do..

I am arguing .. no the scriptures are stating,, that the Holy Spirit gives different abilities to different people who are in the Body of Christ...

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15 hours ago, rrobs said:

Here we are, arguing about the finer points of liturgical matters. Pretty stupid if you think about it. We should be telling each other how wonderful we are because of what God made us. To make such sweeping statements about who's church is spirit led and who's isn't, is rather banal to me. You guys do it however you want. Not having actually experienced your services, I would not think it at all appropriate to make a judgement as to whether or not it is led by the spirit. I'm amazed that you, a Christian, would ever make such a statement with very minimal information. But, unfortunately, it's not just you.  I don't understand why so many Christians are so quick to judge their brothers and sisters, and that without really knowing each other. I guess part of that is the internet, but I would think Christians would rise above the tendency to insult one another because of the anonymity of the internet.

You cannot go against this, "The Holy Spirit won't go against God's divine order, Which is, The Holy Spirit inspirers the individual to speak in tongues. 1 Cor 2: 4. 1 Cor 12: 10 NOT a leader telling someone to speak in tongues. It's quite obvious that your Church isn't Spirit led. It's MAN led". So what is your problem??.

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14 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

  John 3 :16 did not exist as a resource for others  when the Apostles spoke in tongues .

Thus their consecrated purpose of speaking in tongues . 

And by pointing to the fact that we in 2018 have the spiritual resource of John 3 :16  available to everybody you have , unwittingly I might add ,  explained your own inability to  detail any 

account of your " manifestation  " purpose in being publicly transacted to the divine benefit of others . 

Divine purpose is only realized by doing for others.

You have described doing nothing for nobody with your  " manifestation" .

A person whose focus is self will always be similarly circumscribed and weakened in their witness .

                                                                                                      " Prove all things , hold fast to that which is good ."  ( 1 Thessalonians 5 : 21 )

Rom 8:26-27,

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.

These verses say I can speak in tongues for you despite the fact I don't really know that much about you. But God, who knows you quite well, can tell his gift of holy spirit in me what you need in your life and it will make intercession for you. So when I am speaking in tongues for you, it is being selfish? I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion, but I would call it love for others, even those I don't know.

If you were sick I might ask God what is wrong and what I can do for you. That would be the manifestations word of knowledge and word of wisdom. Then, assuming you believed to get healed (which God is quite capable of informing me), I could operate the manifestation of healing. I don's see the selfishness there either.

God tells me, via word of knowledge, that Mary has a devil spirit problem. I ask God to energize discerning of spirits in me so I can cast it out. Hardly selfish, wouldn't you say?

I think you may be making way too many assumptions about me and my walk with God. Basically you are somewhere near 100% wrong. Not that I need to justify myself to you or any man, but you have no idea how much I have to put my own self down and walk out in faith when administering healing to someone. There is about 10,000 little voices in my head telling me I might make a fool of myself by walking up to a stranger, laying hands on them, and pray that they might be healed or born again. But if God tells me to do that, I listen to that one small still voice and ignore the 10,000 voices that come from my own reason, ultimately from the devil.

I can't imagine who has talked you out of walking in the power of God, but obviously someone has. As such you don't know how much you have to humble yourself and do what God says despite the personal cost it may mean for you. You will not know until you start walking by the spirit which means you must utilize God's gift and start manifesting that holy spirit, not for your own ego, but for the benefit of the entire body of Christ.

By the way, as I've pointed out numerous times, it's not "my" manifestation. I'm nowhere near smart enough to come up with such a plan. It's God who speaks of manifestations. You may want to consider listening to Him. Not telling you what to do. Just making a suggestion.

Edited by rrobs

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13 hours ago, Adstar said:

Have you not taken the time to read my posts in this thread?

I am arguing that speaking in tongues is not a requirement that all Christians must do..

I am arguing .. no the scriptures are stating,, that the Holy Spirit gives different abilities to different people who are in the Body of Christ...

Aha, finally! I think I see where we misunderstand each other. I must not have been clear in my OP.

I never meant to say that tongues, or any other manifestation, was a requirement that all Christians must do. A person can be born again, have holy spirit, and never ever choose to manifest it. It is a choice and not a requirement. The death and resurrection of Jesus is all it took to make you perfect in God's eyes. The manifestations, while highly desirable for the edification of the entire body of Christ in this world, are optional. You can be a born again Christian and never operate the spirit in your entire lifetime. You are God's child and, like just like your earthly father, you will remain so, regardless of what you do or don't do. You can't get rid of seed, not your earthly father's seed and certainly not God's (2 Pet 1:23).

Having said that, I don't understand why any Christian would choose not to make copious use of the gift God gave, but your walk with God certainly doesn't depend on my understanding. That's a good thing for all of us! 😁

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9 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

You cannot go against this, "The Holy Spirit won't go against God's divine order, Which is, The Holy Spirit inspirers the individual to speak in tongues. 1 Cor 2: 4. 1 Cor 12: 10 NOT a leader telling someone to speak in tongues. It's quite obvious that your Church isn't Spirit led. It's MAN led". So what is your problem??.

Thanks for your concern. The only real problem I have right now is the brake lights in my truck aren't working. I'm sure it'll get it fixed, but I would appreciate your prayers. Every little bit helps!

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3 hours ago, rrobs said:
18 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

  John 3 :16 did not exist as a resource for others  when the Apostles spoke in tongues .

Thus their consecrated purpose of speaking in tongues . 

And by pointing to the fact that we in 2018 have the spiritual resource of John 3 :16  available to everybody you have , unwittingly I might add ,  explained your own inability to  detail any 

account of your " manifestation  " purpose in being publicly transacted to the divine benefit of others . 

Divine purpose is only realized by doing for others.

You have described doing nothing for nobody with your  " manifestation" .

A person whose focus is self will always be similarly circumscribed and weakened in their witness .

                                                                                                      " Prove all things , hold fast to that which is good ."  ( 1 Thessalonians 5 : 21 )

Rom 8:26-27,

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.

These verses say I can speak in tongues for you despite the fact I don't really know that much about you.

That's known as praying for someone . Speaking in tongues as the apostles did was TO someone , not FOR someone .

You are obviously unfamiliar with the reason that the apostles were consecrated with speaking in tongues separate &  apart from the imperative of daily prayer for others .

Based upon your previous statements I am not all that surprised the more we unpack this subject the more you stray from the biblical emphasis on the purpose for which the apostles were

extended this miraculous capability .

The rational is expressed in His Word with powerful unsullied clearness .

I will pray that your feet become  scripturally grounded on this subject as you increase your knowledge through the Word . 

                                                        " And it is my prayer that your love may be more and more rich in knowledge and all manner of insight"  ( Philippians 1 : 9 )

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14 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

That's known as praying for someone . Speaking in tongues as the apostles did was TO someone , not FOR someone .

You are obviously unfamiliar with the reason that the apostles were consecrated with speaking in tongues separate &  apart from the imperative of daily prayer for others .

Based upon your previous statements I am not all that surprised the more we unpack this subject the more you stray from the biblical emphasis on the purpose for which the apostles were

extended this miraculous capability . 

The rational is expressed in His Word with powerful unsullied clearness .

I will pray that your feet become  scripturally grounded on this subject as you increase your knowledge through the Word . 

You are not surprised? Well, I am. I'm surprised you say so much about the scriptures with next to nothing that is actually from the scriptures.

I always like to see what the scriptures say. I've looked through your posts and don't see very many actual scriptural references, i.e. chapter and verse. It seems like you make up your doctrine on the fly. Sorry to say that. I don't mean anything personal, but you may want to consider backing the things you say with actual scriptures. I'm not sure what your source for truth actually is.

Edited by rrobs

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