Jump to content
rrobs

Manifestations of the Spirit

Recommended Posts

On 9/2/2018 at 3:38 PM, rrobs said:

speak in tongues

Is talking in tongues simply the ability to speak another language instantaneously without learning it? Would there have to be a real recognizable language spoken at some point in time to demonstrating the gift is really there and proving they are not just talking gibberish? 

     

Edited by Scott Free

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Jesus never spoke in tongues . 

But he did " Groan in the Spirit " :

                                                                  "...He groaned in the Spirit , and was troubled ."     ( John 11 : 32 )

Two separate things . 

You are right. Jesus didn't speak in tongues because it wasn't available until the day of Pentecost.

Since we started discussing this, I've been looking at exactly what "groaning" means in the Bible. I've not come up with a definitive answer yet, but I'm working on it. Do you have any insight as to what "groaning" means according to the scriptures?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Scott Free said:

Is talking in tongues simply the ability to speak another language instantaneously without learning it? Would there have to be a real recognizable language spoken at some point in time to demonstrating the gift is really there and proving they are not just talking gibberish?

Tongues is the ability to speak a language the speaker does not naturally know. When you got born again, God gave you the gift of holy spirit. It is that very gift that makes someone born again.

Acts 2:38,

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the holy Spirit.

The people who heard this had no reason whatsoever to think that they might get the gift of holy spirit at some date after repenting. The moment a person repents they get the gift of holy spirit. Being a spirit, it can't be detected by any of the five senses. You can't see it, hear it, taste it, touch it, or smell it. But that doesn't mean it's not there. It's there because God says it's there. The manifestation of that spirit is what brings it into the senses realm. You can hear the tongues, the interpretation of tongues, the prophecy, and on down the line for all the ways it can manifest into the senses realm (1 Cor 12:7-10).

Of course, it is up to the person to move their lips, to move their tongue, their vocal chords, etc. God will not force anybody to manifest. If a person wants to let their spirit lay dormant, they have every right to do so. Of course they will miss out on innumerable blessings, but they do have the choice. But if someone believes God and does move all the muscles involved in speech, their gift of holy spirit will absolutely give them the words to say (Acts 2:4). That much is guaranteed!

On the day of Pentecost there were people from all over the known world who heard the Apostles speak in tongues for the first time and they understood what the Apostles were saying.

Acts 2:4-11,

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Notice what the Apostles were saying, the were speaking, "the wonderful works of God." That is but one of the many things speaking in tongues is.

Having people present who understood what the Apostles was something of a miracle, and there is no guarantee that there will be someone from another country who will understand someone speaking in tongues. I've heard of it happening since the day of Pentecost, but never experienced it for myself. That's OK. The record in Acts chapter 2 is enough proof for me that it can happen. If that one part of the scriptures is not true, then none of it can be trusted. Fortunately, Acts 2 is the truth and we can trust it, and the rest of the scriptures, to the max!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rrobs said:
18 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Jesus never spoke in tongues . 

But he did " Groan in the Spirit " :

                                                                  "...He groaned in the Spirit , and was troubled ."     ( John 11 : 32 )

Two separate things . 

You are right. Jesus didn't speak in tongues because it wasn't available until the day of Pentecost.

Since we started discussing this, I've been looking at exactly what "groaning" means in the Bible. I've not come up with a definitive answer yet, but I'm working on it. Do you have any insight as to what "groaning" means according to the scriptures?

It does not mean speaking in tongues on that we can agree .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said:

It does not mean speaking in tongues on that we can agree .

I'm not 100% sure if it is speaking about tongues or not. That's why I was wondering if you knew anything about what it actually is to groan in the spirit.

It certainly is an area ripe for researching. We must see what the scriptures say, not what we think, but what the scriptures say. If I can't figure something out for sure, I just say, "I don't know." There is nothing to be ashamed of for not knowing something. Problems can arise when I think I know something but don't really know it. It's better to play it safe and admit not knowing.

Take care...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rrobs said:
2 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

It does not mean speaking in tongues on that we can agree .

I'm not 100% sure if it is speaking about tongues or not. That's why I was wondering if you knew anything about what it actually is to groan in the spirit.

We already agreed that Jesus did " groan in the Spirit " ,  but never " spoke in tongues " . 

Why then are you confused about them being different   ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said:

We already agreed that Jesus did " groan in the Spirit " ,  but never " spoke in tongues " . 

Why then are you confused about them being different   ?

I understand how to speak in tongues, but what does one do in order to groan in the spirit?

Miriam-Webster defines it as:

1 : to utter a deep moan indicative of pain, grief, or annoyance

2 : to make a harsh sound (as of creaking) under sudden or prolonged strain

It seems as though groaning as we understand it in the modern West is done when things are going bad, when we are in pain, or suffering grief. If that is the way the ancient Jews and Greeks understood it then Romans 8:26-27 makes little sense. Are we supposed to feel pain, grief, and strained whenever we pray for someone? I doubt that is the case. Clearly we are supposed to pray for each other, so there must be something we are missing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×