Mark of the Beast

[Imamom]

Well, I think that once the mark becomes present we will be aware that is what it is. How can you refuse something if you have no idea what it is. I trust God will let us know when the time comes.

[Sir W Dakotah]

In many ancient cultures it was believed that knowing the number of something gave one power over it.  David numbering Israel was sort of a demonstration of power, his own power, not Yahweh's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EXACTLY!

God said not to do it he did it anyway.

There is also something else involved in this, whether it is pledging an allegiance to the beast, or actually worshipping it. The beast is a system, a theology, and man.

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Notice it says his mark, or his name, or the number of his name?

One thing I do know for sure though Thessolonians tells us that we will know who it is when he is revealed to us.

That day will not come until the son of perdition be revealed...this is progressive revelation

[other one]

I appreciate what you are saying, but there's got to be something more to it, something we are missing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here are the places where the mark is mentioned:

Rev 13:14-17

15 And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead, 17 and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark , either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

NASB

Rev 14:9-10

"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God,

NASB

Rev 14:11-12

11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

NASB

Rev 16:2

2 And the first angel went and poured out his bowl into the earth; and it became a loathsome and malignant sore upon the men who had the mark of the beast and who worshiped his image.

NASB

Rev 19:20

20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image;

NASB

Rev 20:4

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

NASB

If you note in these places where the mark is mentioned it always referrs also to worshiping the beast. It is my observation that not many people who discuss the mark include the worshiping with it, which leaves open the mark to be literally anything. If you combine the two as the Bible does it appears to me to be an identifying mark showing that you are pledged to the beast (actually to Lucifer).

se

[nebula]

But what makes it worshipping the Beast?

[yomotalking]

Dear Fluffy....

Your post:

......the Antichrist will probably profess Christianity.........

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

The Antichrist = ANTI Christ!!!!!

The definition of Christian is: *looks at Chamber's dictionary*

"A follower of Christ."

Now....I doubt he will go that far!

Yomo

[M45510G1C]

But what makes it worshipping the Beast?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a good question Neb, and I think it really strikes at the heart of the issue.

What exactly constitutes worship?

[Guest Croatoan]

Rev 20:4

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

NASB

I think that its important to analyze how Revelations 20:4 breaks into groups the sentence. There are several distinct groups mentioned here....

1) the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God

2) those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not recieved the mark upon their forhead and upon their hand.

If these two groups of individuals were one and the same there would be no need for the "and" to follow "because of the word of God," and before "those." So the first part of this scripture talks about those who have been put to death through the ages because of their beliefs, while the second group are those who stood fast in their faith and didnt worship the beast and in doing so take on his mark. Alot of people confuse this to mean that those who dont take the mark will be beheaded, it doesnt tell us that. It only tells us in

Rev 13:14-17

15 And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead, 17 and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark , either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

NASB

that those who refuse the mark shall not buy or sell.

Now a little applied logic. Satan is most effective when he does not attack us directly because when he does its easiest for us to recognize his hand and thwart it. This is why I believe that the mark when it is offered and placed upon society its going to be something "thats good and will benefit" mankind. It wont be a take this or die scenario because at this point people can still be saved by christ through repentance and faith, the whole take or die would lead more to chirst instead of the opposite because a great many would recognize it as the mark of revelations. I think when it is presented its going be presented with a great deal of benefit that is appealing to nearly all of the earth.

Edited May 13, 2005 by Croatoan

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings,

This subject has been brought up many times before.

In the Left Behind series, there is a story of "Chang" that is FORCED to take the "MoB", yet because he had been FORCED, he is yet able to be saved. No where in Revelation is the possibility of this eluded to. In fact we find:

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4972 sphragizo {sfrag-id'-zo}

from 4973; TDNT - 7:939,1127; v

AV - seal 22, set to (one's) seal 1, stop 1, seal up 1, set a seal 1, vr seal 1; 27

1) to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal

1a) for security: from Satan

1b) since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a

letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret

1c) in order to mark a person or a thing

1c1) to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp

1c2) angels are said to be sealed by God

1d) in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing

1d1) to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt

1d1a) of a written document

1d1b) to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what

he professes to be

Now consider the following:

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

BEFORE the Beast is allowed to begin waging war against the Saints of God, ALL of God's Saints will be SEALED. It is these who will NOT take the MoB, and of course, will suffer the consequences of not being able to buy or sell. So it is IMPOSSIBLE for the "Change Factor" to occur.

So let's also examine the following:

Rev 13:16-17 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Notice that there are THREE things which shall determine the fate of the individual:

1) The MoB

2) The NAME of the Beast

3) The NUMBER of the Beast's name

Any of these three shall be sufficient to receive the wrath of God. Can anyone tell me what these THREE things represent?

I have my own thoughts on this, but for now, I would like to hear yours.

I personally do not believe that a "physical" mark is necessary to doom a person, although I do not believe I will take a "physical" mark if one becomes mandatory.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[CarolineS]

Excellent verses Dad Ernie.

I was also looking at these same verses on my break at work.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not greive the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

So there will be two groups of people in the last days. Those who accept the MoB and those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit. So how shall we be sealed by the Holy Spirit?

Can we identify the MoB without first identifying the beast? I would think the MoB will represent allegiance to the beast. It will also involve worship.

I also like this verse.

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Earnest can be defined as "promise or indication of what will follow; pledge"

So what pledge or promise has the Holy Spirit written on our hearts? What has God written on the heart of man?

We can look at this topic two ways: How will God's people be sealed? What is the MoB? Have God's people been sealed or marked previously in history?

You have asked what these three things represent: The MoB, the beast , and the number of the beast. I think we have to start with the beast before we can identify the mark. I have some ideas on each of these. Also this is a huge topic. Where do you want to start?

In Chirst,

CarolineS

[CarolineS]

  The anti-christ will probably profess Christianity, and I have a feeling that a lot of Christians will follow him. 

???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this will happen also. Antichrist can also mean "in the place of" or "instead of." Satan's original plan (in heaven) was to assume God's position and to be worshipped in place of God. Satan has not changed. He still wants to be God and to be worshipped by people on earth. He will deceive people into following him. I am sure he will appear to be spiritual and holy. He will perform miracles and call fire down from heaven. Most people will follow the antichrist, thinking they are following Christ. Satan is very deceptive, and those who do not study the Word of God will be deceived.

"Take heed that no one deceives you." Matt 24:4

"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible,even the elect.

Matt 24:24.

He's talking to us. If we have to be careful not to be deceived, what about the people who don't ever pick up the Bible???

In Christ,

CarolineS