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WilliamL

The 1260 and 1290/1335 Days

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The 1260 and 1290/1335 Days

Dan. 11:45 And he [the King of the North] shall plant the tents of his pavilion between [the] seas at the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. 12:1 And at that time…there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time…

Matt. 24:15 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place… 21 …then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time…

The above passages describe the key events that lead to the Great Tribulation. The passages below describe the ensuing time period, that of the persecution against the Israelite peoples. (The Book of Daniel says nothing about the Church, which was a “mystery” yet to be revealed to both Israel and the angels. Rom. 16:25; Col. 1:26; 1 Pet. 1:12)

Dan. 12:6 …How long [shall it be to] the end of these wonders? 7 …[it shall be] for a time, times, and an half [= 3½ times/1260 days]; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished. … 11 And from the time [that] the daily/continual shall be taken away, and an abomination of desolation is set up, [there shall be] 1290 days. 12 Blessed [is] he who waits, and comes to the 1335 days.

Dan. 7:25 And he [the Little Horn] shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they [the saints/holy people] shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time [= 3½ times/1260 days].

Rev. 13:5 And there was given unto it [the Beast] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and authority was given unto him [the Mouth/spokesman] to continue forty [and] two months [= 3½ times/1260 days]. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, … 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them

So now to the question: we see above that the period of persecution of Israel shall be for 1260 days, but the period from the beginning of the Great Tribulation, commencing when the Abomination of Desolation is set up, shall be 1290 days until Israel is delivered. Or possibly 1335 days.

1290 – 1260 = 30 days. 1335 – 1260 = 75 days. Is not one of these periods, 30 or 75 days, therefore the length of the Great Tribulation, “immediately after” (Matt. 24:29) which the Lord descends to gather out His elect in the Rapture?

For a different look at why I believe there will be a “short trib,” see my blog post Forty Days.

(Read my blog! Know new praxis!)

 

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On 9/12/2018 at 2:02 PM, WilliamL said:

The above passages describe the key events that lead to the Great Tribulation. The passages below describe the ensuing time period, that of the persecution against the Israelite peoples. (The Book of Daniel says nothing about the Church, which was a “mystery” yet to be revealed to both Israel and the angels. Rom. 16:25; Col. 1:26; 1 Pet. 1:12)

I think a church or part of it was definitely mentioned in Daniel 7, though not explicitly and I do agree that the church itself was a mystery then yet revealed. However, looking at a specific passage in Daniel regarding the little horn, we see.

Dan 7:21  "I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them
Dan 7:22  until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom. 

This of course, happens during the 70th week.

Rev 12:13  Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 
Rev 12:14  But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent
Rev 12:15  So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 
Rev 12:16  But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth
Rev 12:17  And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

There is a definitive remnant of Jews that the dragon cannot get at. These are likely the refugees that listen to Jesus' order to flee after the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24).

The beast makes war against the saints, probably on behalf of the dragon.

Rev 13:7  It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

Seeing as it's virtually certain that the little horn from Daniel 7 and the beast are the same person, that both make war against the saints, and that there is a preserved remnant of Israel that are protected from the dragon and the beast, it would seem that the saints mentioned here are believers and therefore the church (probably mostly gentile, but possibly including some jews who are Christians when this all begins and are not present in israel).

On 9/12/2018 at 2:02 PM, WilliamL said:

So now to the question: we see above that the period of persecution of Israel shall be for 1260 days, but the period from the beginning of the Great Tribulation, commencing when the Abomination of Desolation is set up, shall be 1290 days until Israel is delivered. Or possibly 1335 days.

 

I don't think there's enough information to be dogmatic on those two extended periods. We can be assured that the beast himself has power for only 42 months, which is 1,260 days using 30 day months, which I think is obviously appropriate.

Rev 13:5  And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.

I would be hard pressed to believe that he doesn't have authority at the point of the abomination of desolation and it's probable that his "authority" starts from that point, which means that his authority will end 42 months later. We know exactly what happens to end his authority as well.

Rev 19:19  And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army
Rev 19:20  Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone

So it's reasonable to posit that the period from the abomination to destruction of the beast and his army is 42 months and that this period is directly equivalent to 1,260 days.

Daniel 12 is pretty explicit in its language that there are 1,290 days after the abomination is set up.

Dan 12:11  "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 
Dan 12:12  Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. 

So then we're left with some questions, or at least, i am.

Does the abomination happen  75 days earlier than the midpoint? This would require reading "middle of the week" in Daniel 9:27 more ambiguous than exact, which isn't really a problem technically speaking. If you look at a 7 day week, you can call "wednesday" the middle, but the range of that "middle" would actually be 24 hours or 1/7 of the week. You could also be more specific and say "12 p.m. on wednesday," which would be the exact mid point. The language in Daniel just says middle, but it could theoretically mean either.

Does the abomination of desolation happen at the exact midpoint of the week? This would require reading "middle of the week" in Daniel 9:27 as specifically exact down to the day, at least, if not the hour, which would then lead one to conclude that the 75 day period is not part of the 70th week at all, but is a period afterwards.

 

 

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Since I wrote my post, I have come to a very different understanding. For the long explanation, see my last two blog posts, The 1290 and 1335 Days of Daniel 12:11-12, and The 1260 Days. Each is about 3 pages long. I strongly recommend that those interested in this topic print them out and study them out.

In brief, Daniel 12:11 has been mistranslated, leading to this common but incorrect understanding, which I held myself:

On 11/19/2018 at 11:07 PM, Steve_S said:

Daniel 12 is pretty explicit in its language that there are 1,290 days after the abomination is set up.

That is the understanding that follows from the standard translation. Here is the correct translation, with explanation:

Literal translation of Daniel 12:11-12

And from the time the daily/continual service has been caused to be taken away and/even to the placing of an abomination of desolation: 1290 days. Blessed/happy is the one who earnestly waits, and comes/attains to 1335 days.

has been caused to be taken away”: Hophal Perfect 3ms of the verb סור [soor]. Hophal stems express causative action with a passive voice. Perfect tense means completed action (past, present, or future, here obviously being future).

and/even”: the Hebrew conjunction vav, ו. It usually is translated “and,” but also can mean “but, or, even, yet, when.”

to the”: ל This is the Hebrew preposition lamed, which means “to” or “for.” It has been omitted from the translations of nearly all versions of the Bible. Of the many versions I have consulted, it is found only in Youngʼs Literal Translation. Normally, this preposition would have a Shewa vowel pointing [ ְ  ] underneath; but in this case it has a Qamats [ ָ  ] underneath, which signifies that it includes within it the definite article “the,” the Hebrew letter ה . So this is to be read, “to the placing of an abomination of desolation…”

placing”: This is the correct translation of the Infinitive Construct of the verb root נתן [naw-than´], which means “to give, put, place.” An infinitive is a verbal noun, here being “placing.” The standard translation – “is set up” – distorts the meaning of the verb and the phrase.

The addition of the preposition “to” significantly alters the understanding of the text. The standard translation is rather ambiguous about the relationship of the 1290 days to the two acts: 1) the ending of the daily religious ritual, and 2) the placing of an abomination of desolation. But the inclusion of the simple preposition “to” indicates that the first act begins the 1290 days, and the second act concludes the 1290 days: “from the time of the [removal] even to the abomination of desolation: 1290 days.”

The literal translation indicates that the 1290 days precede the Abomination of Desolation. In contrast, the 1260 days until “the end of these wonders,” during which period “the hand [power] of the holy people [shall be] completely shattered/scattered,” does not begin until their flight into the wilderness, which occurs after the Abomination of Desolation. Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:15-16, 21

On 11/19/2018 at 11:07 PM, Steve_S said:

Seeing as it's virtually certain that the little horn from Daniel 7 and the beast are the same person,...

This is the common understanding, but I disagree with it. Rev. 13:5 tells us that the Beast "was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months." This mouth is the spokeman of the Beast, not the Beast itself. Just as Aaron was the "mouth" of Moses:

Ex. 4:16 "So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God."

Daniel 7's Little Horn is this human spokesman of the Beast, which spokesman is to only endure for 1260 days/3-1/2 times. But this spokesman is not the Beast itself, which is a far more powerful spirit. Daniel 7 makes that clear; Rev. 13 is not so clear, so most people miss it. The Little Horn is merely an appendage upon the head of the Beast; it therefore cannot be the Beast itself.

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1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

This is the common understanding, but I disagree with it. Rev. 13:5 tells us that the Beast "was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months." This mouth is the spokeman of the Beast, not the Beast itself. Just as Aaron was the "mouth" of Moses:

Ex. 4:16 "So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God."

Daniel 7's Little Horn is this human spokesman of the Beast, which spokesman is to only endure for 1260 days/3-1/2 times. But this spokesman is not the Beast itself, which is a far more powerful spirit. Daniel 7 makes that clear; Rev. 13 is not so clear, so most people miss it. The Little Horn is merely an appendage upon the head of the Beast; it therefore cannot be the Beast itself.

I would have to disagree with this.

Rev 13:5  And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 
Rev 13:6  Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 
Rev 13:7  It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 
Rev 13:8  All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 

We can make direct correlations here. Revelation 13:5 says he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, yes, however, Revelation 13:6 says "he opened His mouth." Then we are told that it was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them.

If we look to Daniel 7, we can see a couple of things about the little horn.

1.  He is speaking pompous words.

2.  He is making war against the saints.

Dan 7:8  I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.

Dan 7:21  "I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,

If the horn is the mouthpiece and not the beast himself then it's the mouthpiece that is making war against the saints and not the beast himself, but that's not what revelation 13 says. It says that he will open his mouth up and speak blasphemous words and will *also* make war against the saints, both of which are attributed directly to the little horn, meaning that the little horn must be him.

 

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On 11/27/2018 at 2:58 PM, Steve_S said:

If the horn is the mouthpiece and not the beast himself then it's the mouthpiece that is making war against the saints and not the beast himself, but that's not what revelation 13 says. It says that he will open his mouth up and speak blasphemous words and will *also* make war against the saints, both of which are attributed directly to the little horn, meaning that the little horn must be him.

I believe you are missing the point. The only time limitation -- 1260 days -- is mentioned in verse 5, which is speaking about the spokesman:

Rev 13:5  And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 

The spokesman is fully under the authority of the Beast, is doing the work of the Beast, but is not the Beast itself. The spokesman is limited in time, just like all of the HUMAN kings of the north and south  in Daniel 11. However, the SPIRIT-POWERS/kings of Daniel 11's north and south continued on functioning serially through human rulers, one human after another. These spiritual rulers are still here "at the time of the end," Daniel 11:40 tells us. Just as we are told in Daniel about the spiritual rulers of Greece, Persia, and Israel (Michael), who, we are told in Daniel 7:12 and 12:1, will also still be active in the last days.

The little horn has "eyes like the eyes of a man" (Dan. 7:8), something never said about any of the beasts of Daniel or Revelation.

 

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