Willa Posted September 16, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,224 Content Per Day: 3.34 Reputation: 16,647 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2018 Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, Rom 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: Rom 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; Rom 4:8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin." Rom 5:6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. Rom 5:7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Rom 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlad Posted September 19, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 470 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/07/1946 Share Posted September 19, 2018 There is God's wrath. Against whom is it then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted September 19, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.81 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2018 No man is going to hell for their sins. They choose to go there for not receiving the one who is able to save them from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted September 19, 2018 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted September 19, 2018 5 hours ago, Mike Mclees said: No man is going to hell for their sins. They choose to go there for not receiving the one who is able to save them from it. I don't think that is quite accurate. Falling short of perfection (which is what sin really is) separates people from God. They have that separation in life, and they have it in eternity if the problem is not dealt with. The problem is dealt with when the penalty for sin is paid for (Jesus dying on the cross) and then forgiveness of sins is acquired, by grace, through faith. Then, and only then, is that sin removed and the perfection of Christ is imparted to a believer. So, the reality is, that people do go to Hell for their sins, they fail to avoid that when they do not receive the one able to save them from it. Practically speaking, it is all the same thing, but technically, there is a difference. The wages of sin is death. In other words we earn Hell.(Rom 6:23) In contrast, the GIFT (not wages which are earned) of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. We do not chose to reject Christ and then go to Hell, we were already headed there, when we were chosen to be saved, as the scripture says over and over. It I His doing, not ours, when we accept Christ, we are confirming that He chose us, whether or not we recognize that at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted September 19, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.81 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: I don't think that is quite accurate. Falling short of perfection (which is what sin really is) separates people from God. They have that separation in life, and they have it in eternity if the problem is not dealt with. The problem is dealt with when the penalty for sin is paid for (Jesus dying on the cross) and then forgiveness of sins is acquired, by grace, through faith. Then, and only then, is that sin removed and the perfection of Christ is imparted to a believer. So, the reality is, that people do go to Hell for their sins, they fail to avoid that when they do not receive the one able to save them from it. Practically speaking, it is all the same thing, but technically, there is a difference. The wages of sin is death. In other words we earn Hell.(Rom 6:23) In contrast, the GIFT (not wages which are earned) of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. We do not chose to reject Christ and then go to Hell, we were already headed there, when we were chosen to be saved, as the scripture says over and over. It I His doing, not ours, when we accept Christ, we are confirming that He chose us, whether or not we recognize that at the time. We are born in sin as David said in Psalm 53 and the payment for sin is death. We cannot on our own escape this except forsake and confess our sins believing Christ paid our sin dept and we then receive the gift of Grace. Having opportunity to receive Christ and choose not to receive the gift their is no debt paid. So we choose not to receive the gift that would save us. This is how I see it. No man is without sin. When we ponder this we know this is true. God bless Edited September 20, 2018 by Mike Mclees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted September 20, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.81 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sojourner414 said: That wouldn't explain those who lived and died before the advent of Jesus. There is with Israel those who lived by Gods will and gave Him Glory. There were also those who killed the prophets. Edited September 20, 2018 by Mike Mclees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted September 20, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.81 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 20, 2018 On 9/19/2018 at 5:09 PM, Mike Mclees said: We are born in sin as David said in Psalm 53 and the payment for sin is death. We cannot on our own escape this except forsake and confess our sins believing Christ paid our sin dept and we then receive the gift of Grace. Having opportunity to receive Christ and choose not to receive the gift their is no debt paid. So we choose not to receive the gift that would save us. This is how I see it. No man is without sin. When we ponder this we know this is true. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted September 20, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.81 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Yowm said: I would say our debt has been paid regardless, it's just not received. How are you saying ? I would say that it's personal salvation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wilbur Posted September 20, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 6 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/20/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 20, 2018 On 9/12/2018 at 1:07 PM, Yowm said: Actually this area is for welcomes. God sent the flood, but the people were already murdering each other at the time of the Flood (not unlike today). It is believed Lucifer was already thrown out of heaven when he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden. He will one day be assigned to the Lake of Fire. Why did God throw Lucifer, i.e. Satan down where man could be tempted, and why tempt man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wilbur Posted September 20, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 6 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/20/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Sojourner414 said: That wouldn't explain those who lived and died before the advent of Jesus. Adam sinned and because of Adams acquired sin nature, all mankind Romans 5: 12-19 was imputed with the sin nature of Adam, it passed down through all generations. Galatians 2: 1-3. All those whom God chose Ephesians 1: 4 and God came near to was spoken to by God, the ancient peoples who were given belief and faith i.e, Abraham Hebrews 11, the rest did not and if dying in their sin, the will be eternally separated from God. Hebrews 11: 1-3; John 3: 27; 15: 5b; Philippians 2: 13 Edited September 20, 2018 by James Wilbur Add text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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