creativemechanic Posted September 14, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 414 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,273 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 518 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 14, 2018 was discussing the birth rate issue in our country with a friend the other day. This is also a problem identified among certain Christian denominations while other religions e.g. Muslims and Rastafarian have swarms of kids Anothe reason identified was that people now having access to contraceptives and have a better standard of living before will prefer to have smaller families and use the more money and resources that can stretch more to enjoy life more (is the family can have more stuff and do more things now that the money stretches further) The other person agreedcand considered it as selfishness ie we want less kids so we can have more for ourselves. what do you think anoutvtuat perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted September 14, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 950 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,525 Content Per Day: 5.02 Reputation: 9,025 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) Was Paul selfish? "Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Now as a concession, not a command, I say this. I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife. To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace. For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? Live as You Are Called Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches. Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision. For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God. Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called. Were you a bondservant when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.) For he who was called in the Lord as a bondservant is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a bondservant of Christ. You were bought with a price; do not become bondservants of men. So, brothers, in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God. The Unmarried and the Widowed Now concerning the betrothed, I have no command from the Lord, but I give my judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. I think that in view of the present distress it is good for a person to remain as he is. Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. This is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none, and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy as though they had no goods, and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the present form of this world is passing away. I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband. I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord. If anyone thinks that he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed, if his passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes: let them marry—it is no sin. But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well. So then he who marries his betrothed does well, and he who refrains from marriage will do even better. A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. Yet in my judgment she is happier if she remains as she is. And I think that I too have the Spirit of God." Edited September 14, 2018 by Neighbor 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted September 14, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.22 Reputation: 11,242 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 14, 2018 26 minutes ago, creativemechanic said: was discussing the birth rate issue in our country with a friend the other day. This is also a problem identified among certain Christian denominations while other religions e.g. Muslims and Rastafarian have swarms of kids Anothe reason identified was that people now having access to contraceptives and have a better standard of living before will prefer to have smaller families and use the more money and resources that can stretch more to enjoy life more (is the family can have more stuff and do more things now that the money stretches further) The other person agreedcand considered it as selfishness ie we want less kids so we can have more for ourselves. what do you think anoutvtuat perspective. I think trying to guilt people into having large families is selfishness. I think having more kids than you can provide for, and end up needing govt handouts is selfishness. Mostly, I think that trying to dictate how brothers and sisters in general should marry or not marry, should have kids or not have kids, is selfishness. Paul and the bible excepted of course. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debp Posted September 14, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 52 Topic Count: 1,014 Topics Per Day: 0.15 Content Count: 12,274 Content Per Day: 1.79 Reputation: 16,331 Days Won: 92 Joined: 07/19/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 14, 2018 It's not selfish if you are trying to provide for your family so you might need to not have as many children. It would seem to be more selfish to have lots of kids and then for them to suffer want. Also, perhaps some people have health issues so they can't have as many children or maybe they can't have any children. In this case it would be nice if they could perhaps adopt a child. Lots of different factors enter in as to why some have smaller or bigger families. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted September 14, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 950 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,525 Content Per Day: 5.02 Reputation: 9,025 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, ayin jade said: I think trying to guilt people into having large families is selfishness. I think having more kids than you can provide for, and end up needing govt handouts is selfishness. Mostly, I think that trying to dictate how brothers and sisters in general should marry or not marry, should have kids or not have kids, is selfishness. Paul and the bible excepted of course. Yep, and besides the whole conception may be wrong. I know it sure isn't what has been experienced here for some long time now. Our young families are having more children and are adopting yet even more. We have had to reconfigure and rethink worship and education facilities as result, adding cry rooms, more nursery space, more classrooms, and even an adoption helps ministry with support groups formed to assist those going through the lengthy and expensive adoption process. We are bursting at the seams, with pregnant women, and newborn life everywhere, and so many adopted children coming from all over the world. Edited September 14, 2018 by Neighbor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted September 14, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 14, 2018 The saying, “ It’s none of your business” was never more appropriate .To speculate on the reasons why couples have two kids or twenty kids is the height of ignorance. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted September 14, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 950 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,525 Content Per Day: 5.02 Reputation: 9,025 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, creativemechanic said: was discussing the birth rate issue in our country with a friend the other day. This is also a problem identified among certain Christian denominations while other religions e.g. Muslims and Rastafarian have swarms of kids Hmm, thinking about it, I am not aware of anyone being born a Christian. All come to Christ individually, but by the same way at the specific call of the Holy Spirit- The Holy Spirit calls whomever the Holy Spirit calls. Birth rates will not affect God the Holy Spirit's ability will it? Has not God foreknown and predestined all that will come to Jesus? Cannot God turn about a Muslim or a Rastafarian to their salvation in Christ Jesus? Is the word of God only for those born of parents that have been called to their salvation by the Holy Spirit? Reach outward giving testimony of Jesus, do not fold arms lamenting that there are not enough of "our kind" being born. For that is the argument of the unsaved, not the saved! Let the unsaved world worry itself over populations and shiftings about. The saved need share of Jesus and salvation by His shed blood shed so that many may have eternal life with God. God the Holy Spirit can turn about whomever the Spirit wills. Be confident in that. Edited September 14, 2018 by Neighbor 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKay Posted September 14, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 385 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 7,692 Content Per Day: 1.93 Reputation: 4,809 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, creativemechanic said: Anothe reason identified was that people now having access to contraceptives and have a better standard of living before will prefer to have smaller families and use the more money and resources that can stretch more to enjoy life more (is the family can have more stuff and do more things now that the money stretches further) It's not about having more stuff to do or even having more stuff. It is about being able to put food on the table, have a place to live, and health care ect ect ect...... Child care even if both parents have to work. Or taken into account being able to provide all of which I just pointed out on one income if one parent stays home. I have grown weary of other people who just assume things about people and their lives due to such stuff as how many children they have. Or if they don't have any at all. Point is it is no ones business! As for Muslims having a high birth rate and because of that, we Christians need to pop out more babies to keep up with them. To that I have this to say. No one has even been born a Christian. Well I was asked what I thought and so that is what I did. Just a side note: For babies and toddlers, the average cost of full-time day care at a center is $972 a month. Edited September 14, 2018 by LadyKay 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted September 14, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 950 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,525 Content Per Day: 5.02 Reputation: 9,025 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Hi LadyKay, while I gave it a thumbs up, I don't think it is even about money, by most statistical analysis logic states that we shouldn't even exist ourselves, as we cost too much. Statistically I can't afford me. But the whole premise is flawed based upon my own local experience with Christians. They are having kids like they think they are making popcorn. Plus they are adopting two at a time from all over the world! They do it despite any logical budget constraints. They just evidently feel called to do so! Anyway, we have kids on top of kids at our local body of christ- it is grand, the sound of new life and young activity running all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKay Posted September 14, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 385 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 7,692 Content Per Day: 1.93 Reputation: 4,809 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Neighbor said: They just evidently feel called to do so! I am in no way going against anyone's calling. If anyone feels it is God's calling on their life to add to their family by adoption or well...the other way. Then by all means follow your calling. God will take care of those following his calling. Really my issue with the topic of this thread was accusing people of being selfish. None of us know what is going on in a person'a life. In the reality is that there are people who just would not make good parents. So we shouldn't go pointing at people around us and saying they are this or that based on the number of children. Okay I am done now. But where is the cartoon? I want a cartoon. Edited September 14, 2018 by LadyKay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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