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Why? (John 6:66)


Christine

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'From that time many of His disciples went back, 
and walked no more with Him.'

(John 6:66)  

Hello there,

Reading a poem entered by Yowm, ('Hidden Hook', in the songs of praise poetry club), in which he quoted this verse, caused me to read the chapter to see it's context; and I would like to ask the question:- what, within this context, caused many of our Lord's disciples to walk no more with Him, and why?

Thanking you in anticipation.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

Edited by Christine
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1 hour ago, Christine said:

'From that time many of His disciples went back, 
and walked no more with Him.'

(John 6:66)  

Hello there,

Reading a poem entered by Yowm, ('Hidden Hook', in the songs of praise poetry club), in which he quoted this verse, caused me to read the chapter to see it's context; and I would like to ask the question:- what, within this context, caused many of our Lord's disciples to walk no more with Him, and why?

Thanking you in anticipation.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

My thoughts mirror John Calvin's. The Gospel is not received in every place and by all. All are blind, until they are illuminated by the Spirit of God, therefore, they can only partake of a great blessing whom the Father designs to make partakers of it.

The Jews were under persecution by the Romans, they were expecting the 'Lion' of Judea as their Messiah, a political leader to lead them out from under Roman rule. Not the 'Lamb' to bring them into the spiritual Kingdom of God.

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9 hours ago, Christine said:

'From that time many of His disciples went back, 
and walked no more with Him.'

(John 6:66)  

Hello there,

Reading a poem entered by Yowm, ('Hidden Hook', in the songs of praise poetry club), in which he quoted this verse, caused me to read the chapter to see it's context; and I would like to ask the question:- what, within this context, caused many of our Lord's disciples to walk no more with Him, and why?

Thanking you in anticipation.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

The reason they no longer walked with Jesus as seen in John 6:66 is that 1. Jesus refused to keep feeding them with Welfare Manna from Heaven, “Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, you want to be with me because I fed you, not because you understood the miraculous signs,” (John 6:26) and 2. He said a statement they could not understand or edure, “So Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within you. 54 But anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise that person at the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57 I live because of the living Father who sent me; in the same way, anyone who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 I am the true bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will not die as your ancestors did (even though they ate the manna) but will live forever.”  (John 6:53-58) and this was there response to these words of Jesus, “60 Many of his disciples said, “This is very hard to understand. How can anyone accept it?”61 Jesus was aware that his disciples were complaining, so he said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what will you think if you see the Son of Man ascend to heaven again? 63 The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But some of you do not believe me.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning which ones didn’t believe, and he knew who would betray him.) 65 Then he said, “That is why I said that people can’t come to me unless the Father gives them to me.”66 At this point many of his disciples turned away and deserted him. 67 Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?” (John 6:62-66). 

Of course Jesus later clarifies eating  His body and drinking His blood at the Last Supper when He breaks the bread anscoffers the cup of wine, “And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you” (Luke 22:19-20) and Jesus literally fulfills John 6:50-60 when He is flogged and crucified and pierced with spear so that His blood flows out for our sins (John 19:1-36). The John 6:66 crowd refused to confess Jesus as Lord and have faith in Him; they only wanted free meals after the feeding of the  5,000 which they were among those 5,000 (John 6:1-11). They weren’t following Jesus because they believed He was Son of God and Messiah, they wanted Him to be their Manna and Fish dispenser [makes you think about how our churches get in the gear of wanting Jesus to provide for them with prosperity and goods, but could some of them be like the fickle John 6:66 group and when Jesus tells them something hard they will flake?]

Interestingly, John 6:66 is when these people fall away and leave Jesus and it is the Mark of the Beast that is 666 (Revelation 13:18). Coincidence? I think not. For when the chapters and verses were constructed in the Bible, I believe the Holy Spirit orchestrated them. Hence why all 3:16 chapter and verse is important verses in New Testament: John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 2 Timothy 3:16, Revelation 3:26,   and etc. All the verses about God not wanting a building are sevens, 2 Samuel 7:1-53, Acts 7:44-50, 1 Chronicles 17:1-44. 

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@Dennis 1209

@Fidei Defensor

Thank you for your responses. Interesting input.  It is 12.30 here in the UK, so I will have to come back to this tomorrow (God willing).

In Christ Jesus

Chris

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@Dennis 1209

@Fedei Defensor

'From that time many of His disciples went back, 
and walked no more with him.'

(John 6:66)  

Hello again,

There is much of interest in this chapter and those preceding it, that challenge, and tempt me to linger upon them, but I will stick with the question of the OP, 'What caused many of the Lord's disciples to walk no more with Him'? The Lord Himself identifies the root cause as unbelief (vv.60-66), doesn't He? '... but there are some of you that believe not' (v.64). In Mark, there is a similar occasion where it is said of the disciples, 'But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask Him.' (Mark 9:32).

Dennis points out that their expectation of the Lord Jesus Christ was such that they failed to understand what He was saying to them, for it was contrary to what they understood His role at that time to be. They were looking to Him to bring deliverance from the yoke of Rome (in the flesh), but it was the message that He had to give, at that time, that was 'spirit' and 'life' to them (v.63), if they would only believe. The concept of sacrifice on His behalf was foreign to them, it was hard, they could not receive it.

I sought initially to find the answer to the question further back in the chapter, but it was necessary to differentiate between, 'the multitude,' 'the Jews which murmured', and ' the disciples' that failed to understand, and turned away because of unbelief.

In Christ Jesus

Chris

 

Edited by Christine
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Hello there,

This morning while considering what caused many of the Lord's disciples to 'walk no more with Him' in John 6:66: before finally recognising that it was because of unbelief (v64), created by an expectation of the Lord Jesus Christ, at that time, that was contrary to what they were hearing from Him: they expected Him to be their deliverer, but He spoke of sacrifice, and they failed to understand, and so 'walked no more with Him'.

I believe there are those today who also have an expectation of Christ Jesus, our risen Lord, which is contrary to what has been promised. Who therefore, 'walk no more with Him', when their expectations are not realised.  Failing to understand that we walk by faith and not by sight, in spirit, and not in the flesh.

In Christ Jesus

Chris

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I agree that when the people realized Jesus was talking about dying they gave up believing he was the hero they were expecting. I also think there is something bigger happening here.

Joh 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh accomplishes nothing. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

They cannot believe something if they don't understand it and the Holy Spirit cannot "make" them understand it if they don't want to.

These people were focused on the physical and were not yet open to even considering the spiritual truths that Jesus was using the physical to demonstrate.

From the very beginning the bible uses the physical to teach about spiritual truths. Even knowing this today, there are still plenty of people that are not willing to open themselves up for that understanding.

Most people, Christians included, don't realize we live a dual life and as a result don't know that the teachings of Jesus have a second intended meaning.

Even with that verse quoted here in the bible there will still be those that just won't get it because they only are considering the physical.

As a side note..the idea of drinking Jesus blood was set up in Genesis 3:21 where the given up life in the blood is partnered with the lost life of a soul...they were being covered physically by the skin but more importantly they were being covered spiritually by the life the blood represented. To physically take Jesus blood in is our Lords way of saying to spiritually "take my life in" and obviously was not meant to be taken literally. That is why the drinking of blood was prohibited right from the very beginning and because they were only thinking in the physical it caused many to turn away when Jesus presented the teaching. 

The rule not to consume blood was set up and reserved for this very moment and this very person, the Messiah.

Edited by Mike 2
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On 9/18/2018 at 8:27 PM, Christine said:

'From that time many of His disciples went back, 
and walked no more with Him.'

(John 6:66)  

Hello there,

Reading a poem entered by Yowm, ('Hidden Hook', in the songs of praise poetry club), in which he quoted this verse, caused me to read the chapter to see it's context; and I would like to ask the question:- what, within this context, caused many of our Lord's disciples to walk no more with Him, and why?

Thanking you in anticipation.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

Jesus spoke to them in a symbolic way and some of them took it literally and so could not accept it::

In context we read::

John 6: KJV

53 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. {54} Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. {55} For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. {56} He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. {57} As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. {58} This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. {59} These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. {60} Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? {61} When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? {62} What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? {63} It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. {64} But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. {65} And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. {66}From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him."

 

They thought Jesus was preaching cannibalism.. They could not perceive the Symbolic language..

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@Mike 2

@Adstar

Thank you for your input.

The figure of 'eating' and 'drinking' was well understood among the Jews, which would have been understood as referring to doctrine, the receiving, believing and digesting of doctrine. 

The natural revulsion which we experience upon reading the words, 'eat of My flesh' and 'drink of My blood' would not have been experienced by the Jews, revolting as the literal eating of blood would have been to them, for they were so accustomed to the figure of eating as meaning 'believing' a doctrine, that the physical and literal aspects which first strike a reader today would not occur to them.

'What was difficult for them to take was expressed by the Jews who said, 'Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, Whose father and mother we know:  How is it then that He saith, I came down from heaven?"' (John 6:42), they would have had no objection to being told that like the manna in the wilderness which came down from Heaven, He was 'the true bread', and had been sent 'to give life unto the world', but when He further said, 'the bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world (6:51), objection would immediately enter the Jew's mind, for life given 'for' implies sacrifice, as in John 10:11, 'I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.'

It was this, not any revulsion against the literal acceptance of the reference to His flesh and blood, that caused the opposition of the Jews to harden.  Largely as a result of Rabbinical teaching, the Jews had no room in their expectation for a suffering Messiah, but it is an integral part of the teaching of the Scriptures, that Christ came in the flesh, in a body prepared for Him, so that He might bare our sins in that body, that sin might be condemned in the flesh, and that in the body of His flesh through death the believer may be presented at last holy and unblameable (John 1:14, Rom.8:3, Heb.10:20; Col.1:22; 1 John 4:2,3) to God.

'They shall be taught of God' (John 6:45)

'It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.'

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus

Chris

Edited by Christine
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Starting around verse 41, Jesus began telling those gathered to hear him that He was the bread of life; that only by eating his flesh and drinking his blood could they hope to have life.

By verse 61, there are grumblings and murmurings regarding Jesus' words. The Lord already knew their hearts and that some who had been following as disciples really did not believe; so he tested their belief on the spot.

vs 54 - 57.   54But anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise that person at the last day. 55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57I live because of the living Father who sent me; in the same way, anyone who feeds on me will live because of me.

61Jesus was aware that his disciples were complaining, so he said to them, “Does this offend you? 62Then what will you think if you see the Son of Man ascend to heaven again? 63The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64But some of you do not believe me.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning which ones didn’t believe, and he knew who would betray him.) 65Then he said, “That is why I said that people can’t come to me unless the Father gives them to me."

66At this point many of his disciples turned away and deserted him. 67Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?”

68Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words that give eternal life. 69We believe, and we know you are the Holy One of God.j

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