turtletwo Posted September 21, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 35 Topic Count: 1,192 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 7,264 Content Per Day: 1.19 Reputation: 15,710 Days Won: 194 Joined: 07/15/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2018 With the popularity of the Flat Earth beliefs circulating, has anyone noticed a negative effect on the body of Christ? Divisions and even strong relationships being damaged by not seeing eye to eye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandalfTheWise Posted September 21, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 24 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 2,377 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2018 32 minutes ago, turtletwo said: With the popularity of the Flat Earth beliefs circulating, has anyone noticed a negative effect on the body of Christ? Divisions and even strong relationships being damaged by not seeing eye to eye? My observation is that Christians holding FE beliefs are usually a subset of young earth creationists. For those with those firm beliefs, God explicitly told us facts about the earth in the Bible. To question those facts is to actively question God and to cast away the authority of scripture. My observation is that some of them are convinced that anyone who disagrees with them in any of those matters has cast aside scripture and at best is deceived and at worst is not a Christian. They have a carefully constructed set of details, facts, and explanations proving why those who disagree are wrong. The challenge I see is that many of these people have made believing in these things a part of their cornerstone of faith. Any doubt or question whatsoever on any of the details, facts, and explanations about what they are convinced scripture says about the earth is an attack on their faith. They often cannot let a single question or doubt or disagreement go, because a single error means the very authority of scripture is being called into doubt and as a result their faith in God is cast into doubt. In many of their eyes, any Christian who has a view such as "I believe God created the world and the details don't matter to me" has potentially rejected the authority of scripture and must be brought into line. So in answer to your question, yes. I see divisions occurring because for some Christians this is a critical matter of faith for which disagreement cannot be allowed. For some Christians, those who disagree on these matters have cast aside the Bible and likely God Himself. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyMidnight Posted September 21, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 536 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 563 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, turtletwo said: With the popularity of the Flat Earth beliefs circulating, has anyone noticed a negative effect on the body of Christ? Divisions and even strong relationships being damaged by not seeing eye to eye? Flat Earth is a lie. Lies are from Satan. How can those who believe or perpetuate a lie not be damaged? It is a matter of life and death. Just saying. Cheers!!! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletwo Posted September 21, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 35 Topic Count: 1,192 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 7,264 Content Per Day: 1.19 Reputation: 15,710 Days Won: 194 Joined: 07/15/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 So what if somebody you care about deeply is getting mixed up by this via YouTube? What do you do to help them? I'm very concerned. I tried discussing it calmly but things got heated. Does anyone know how to discount their many scripture references they claim they base it on? (Not to mention the science stuff. I'm no help there as I never was any good with science.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyMidnight Posted September 21, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 536 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 563 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, turtletwo said: So what if somebody you care about deeply is getting mixed up by this via YouTube? What do you do to help them? I'm very concerned. I tried discussing it calmly but things got heated. Does anyone know how to discount their many scripture references they claim they base it on? (Not to mention the science stuff. I'm no help there as I never was any good with science.) What scripture references? There is no scripture that states the earth is flat. References to the earth and heavens are from the perspective of the individual; If you go outside right now, it can easily appear the earth is flat and the sky a dome, but only from a human perspective at a specific location. Travel anywhere on the earth and it will always look flat from that point, yet the sky changes. You don't see the same stars in the Northern hemisphere as you do in the Southern. If you travel from one hemisphere to the other believing it is flat, why would there be a different sky with completely different star fields? If you go to the highest peaks on earth, the curvature of the earth becomes clearly visible. So according to flat earthers, every ship falls off the earth at the horizon, and every plane crashes on the earth there too! Now obviously this is ridiculous but no less ridiculous than a flat earth. Stop this flat earth none sense already. The Bible is about salvation, not geology. Isaiah 40: 22. It is he that sitteth H3427 upon the circle H2329of the earth, H776 and the inhabitants H3427thereof are as grasshoppers; H2284 that stretcheth out H5186 the heavens H8064 as a curtain, H1852 and spreadeth them out H4969 as a tent H168 to dwell in: H3427 Circle, H2329 Chuwg. Circle, Circuit, Compass, Sphere Cheers!!! Edited September 22, 2018 by RockyMidnight 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 21, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,044 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,788 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted September 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, RockyMidnight said: What scripture references? There is no scripture that states the earth is flat. References to the earth and heavens are from the perspective of the individual; If you go outside right now, it can easily appear the earth is flat and the sky a dome, but only from a human perspective at a specific location. Travel anywhere on the earth and it will always look flat from that point, yet the sky changes. You don't see the same stars in the Northern hemisphere as you do in the Southern. If you travel from one hemisphere to the other believing it is flat, why would there be a different sky with completely different star fields? If you go to the highest peaks on earth, the curvature of the earth becomes clearly visible. Stop this flat earth none sense already. The Bible is about salvation, not geology. Isaiah 40: 22. It is he that sitteth H3427 upon the circle H2329of the earth, H776 and the inhabitants H3427thereof are as grasshoppers; H2284 that stretcheth out H5186 the heavens H8064 as a curtain, H1852 and spreadeth them out H4969 as a tent H168 to dwell in: H3427 Circle, H2329 Chuwg. Circle, Circuit, Compass, Sphere Cheers!!! Michael Heiser would disagree with you... especially in the original Hebrew and Greek..... I have not studied it well enough to intelligently discuss it but if you look at his writings and video's he will explain the details... He has a doctors degree in Hebrew and other degrees in Greek and others. He explains why the wording used tends to make us think that and how to keep others from getting trapped into the madness. I have other issues to deal with so those who care to deal with it need to look up his stuff. Just telling someone who believes in flat earth the Bible really doesn't say the earth is flat will not listen to you at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandalfTheWise Posted September 21, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 24 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 2,377 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, turtletwo said: So what if somebody you care about deeply is getting mixed up by this via YouTube? What do you do to help them? I'm very concerned. I tried discussing it calmly but things got heated. Does anyone know how to discount their many scripture references they claim they base it on? (Not to mention the science stuff. I'm no help there as I never was any good with science.) These can be challenging situations. Hang in there. I think the first thing is to discern the real root of their conviction on this. My sense of things is that there are two general reasons a Christian believes FE materials, one primarily intellectual and the other primarily spiritual, and it might be both. I'm going to focus this post assuming that there is a strong spiritual component to this. The first is that they are buying in on an intellectual level of being convinced by the scientific sounding information being presented and the idea the government is hiding something. I would describe these Christians as believing FE as some type of theory to be believed based on facts and evidence. In this case, they would probably be open to discussing various evidence and having a discussion about what best fits the facts. They might see the Bible as possibly teaching either so they would be more open to considering evidence about the actual shape of the earth. If this is the case, a calm discussion of various Bible verses would probably be fruitful. The second is that they are buying in on a spiritual level where they've become convinced that is what the Bible teaches. In this case, it's potentially become a matter of the authority and accuracy of scripture for them. Any attempt to point out fallacies or errors in FE materials then essentially becomes an attack on what scripture teaches. When I first started trying to deal with Christians who believe that the Bible teaches a flat earth, I found that approaching things from a scientific standpoint was ineffective. As far as I can tell, they have rejected standard science and any evidence of a globular world as fabricated and deceptive. The more you mention it, the more they become convinced you are deceived and untrustworthy. Such verses as And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. Rev 7:1 KJV quite plainly state and thus prove that the earth must have 4 literal corners or it would not be possible for an angel to be standing on them. It thus becomes an issue that God said in scripture that the earth has 4 corners, therefore anyone, any science, anything, that contradicts that is calling God a liar. Try to suggest that a verse like this might be allegorical or reflect common language usage in some manner and not be literal and you will potentially be dismissed as disbelieving scripture. Over the years, I noticed that some Christians seem to have an unhealthy all or nothing approach to the authority of scripture *based on what they believe*. They seem to have a view something like everything I have been taught and convinced that scripture says must be correct or I cannot trust any of it. They'll usually acknowledge their beliefs aren't perfect, but they usually have an extensive list of things they are not willing to compromise on. They have put themselves into a position where they cannot allow any doubt or challenge about those things they are convinced that the Bible teaches. If any one of those things is wrong, their entire faith in scripture is shaken because they honestly are then not sure of what else in the Bible might be wrong. If the earth does not have 4 corners as it clearly says, then what else might be wrong in scripture? My observation is that they often can get quite hostile whenever anyone brings up anything that contradicts something on their list of no-compromise beliefs. Such discussions all too frequently end up with with them pointing out how the other person has rejected scripture and is calling God a liar. Keep pushing too hard and you'll potentially start to be viewed as the enemy and not a Christian. I suppose the main advice I'd give is to be patient and keep focused on the main thing which is that their trust and confidence needs to be in God Himself, not in being right about each and every little detail of belief (such as what shape the earth is). I'd pray for discernment of what to share and when and that God would shine His light into this situation. Sometimes less is more and a single well-timed comment or observation from God's guidance is what it takes. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyMidnight Posted September 21, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 536 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 563 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, other one said: Michael Heiser would disagree with you... especially in the original Hebrew and Greek..... I have not studied it well enough to intelligently discuss it but if you look at his writings and video's he will explain the details... He has a doctors degree in Hebrew and other degrees in Greek and others. He explains why the wording used tends to make us think that and how to keep others from getting trapped into the madness. I have other issues to deal with so those who care to deal with it need to look up his stuff. Just telling someone who believes in flat earth the Bible really doesn't say the earth is flat will not listen to you at all. Hi Other One. Fine by me if someone wants to listen or not, agree or not, since it is all foolishness to God. Like I stated, scripture is about salvation. Period, end of story! Cheers Brother!!! Edited September 21, 2018 by RockyMidnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted September 22, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,696 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,516 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted September 22, 2018 They absolutely do. First off, by presenting a theory thats absolutely preposterous and contrary to scripture, they ruin not only their credibility, but the credibility of christians as a whole as people often will group all of us into the same group. And second, flat earthers often get militant and defensive any time their false beliefs are called into question, so if the fact they believe such inherently bad doctrine and science isnt bad enough, they totally ruin their witness by talking down to, belittling, and insulting anyone who dares speak up against them. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted September 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2018 “It’s the heighth of ignorance”......Big Foot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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