The State of the Church

[Zoltan777]

14 hours ago, Archangel Thyos said:

Do you think the church is on the path, or completely off the path? I mean, I see people flapping their arms and going into convulsions in some services, but... they're still on the path... right?

To be honest...I am not sure.

[GandalfTheWise]

46 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

https://www.northumbriacommunity.org/articles/listening-to-god/ this is what i mean by contemplation and meditation. Not unbiblical at all   Perhaps its another terminology thing? Its not an emptying of the mind and letting anything fill the vacancy.

I skimmed the article.  This is precisely what some Christians would call new-age, occult, and eastern-influenced practice that is part of the coming satanic one-world religion (which is being lead by the roman catholic church).   They seem to see everything as either being part of the small holy remnant of Christians to be raptured or part of the satanic one-world religion to be shunned.  There is nothing in between.  If it doesn't directly repudiate any and all catholic, orthodox, or related practices, it isn't of God.

The thing I see with regard to it is this.  Most mainline churches are in a fight for their soul.  There are those pastors in them who are indeed Christians believing in Jesus Christ and knowing Him;  and there are those pastors in them who are essentially agnostics or atheists who see religious symbolism and rites as merely emotional things that help us deal with life.   For the believer, the resurrection of Jesus Christ is a real historical event that has objective meaning.  For the agnostic, it's merely a subjective symbol of the possibility of having a new and better life; it's meaning is how much comfort and peace it might bring someone.  For those who are believers, what is called contemplative prayer is basically what most believers do when they sit quietly in God's presence and think on spiritual things and listen to God.  For those who are agnostic, it can become just about anything including eastern meditation.   For the believer, it is about resting in God's presence and listening to Him.  For the agnostic, it's about trying to find emotional peace and some type of emotional experience to give meaning to life.

This also gets into the realm of the question: How does God speak to Christians today?  Some Christians hold the position that the *only* way God speaks today is though the Bible; anything else is unbiblical and potentially occult or satanic in nature.   Other Christians hold the position that God speaks to us in many ways (which must then be evaluated to see if it is consistent with scripture).  Because contemplative prayer involves listening (which some would call a further revelation beyond scripture), some would reject it as unscriptural.

[Sower]

7 hours ago, Yowm said:

This should be the path...

1Co 2:2  For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.  Focus....
 

The State of "the Church" God's church is the body of true believers, not the latest "in crowd" Big difference...
 

For the true church, the body of Christ, whatever the name above the door when together in fellowship, will endure, in Christ.

2Ti 1:12  For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

"The true Church on this earth, must acknowledge the inspired authority of the Bible, and must base its teaching solidly on that foundation"
Joh 17:17  Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

 

2 hours ago, maryjayne said:

PS Celtic contemplative prayer has been going on since around 290AD, nothing to do with Eastern religions or yoga. 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Gary Lee

[turtletwo]

Sevenseas said

quote:

"interesting

I've seen some services in which I thought someone should call 911 because there was no evidence of life

 

1Praise the Lord. ^a

Praise God in his sanctuary;

praise him in his mighty heavens.

2Praise him for his acts of power;

praise him for his surpassing greatness.

3Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,

praise him with the harp and lyre,

4praise him with timbrel and dancing,

praise him with the strings and pipe,

5praise him with the clash of cymbals,

praise him with resounding cymbals.

6Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.

Praise the Lord.

 

Psalm 150 with no apologies"

turtletwo reply:

 (I love this psalm, btw!) There are some pretty extreme 'extremes' out there. You could call the group you cited the 'sleeping saints' and the hyper bunch 'the circus saints' (too much theatrics, too little substance.) 

Edited September 28, 2018 by turtletwo
added to it

[Neighbor]

All I know is God has led me to more than one local body of Christ Jesus. He has had me do service at each. They were vastly different one from another, and yet each seemed to be the local corporate body of individuals that love their creator, worship him and try to do all that they do to the glory  of God.

I praise God for the privilege He has extended to me in finding bond-servants of my Lord to be at work at every single church though they may quarrel and even fight one against another's enactments of so called doctrines, the rules of order at each body.

The Bodies  of Christ Jesus have been  different from each other from day one. Yet each saint has been saved by the grace and mercy  of God alone by the shed Blood of Christ Jesus alone.

Faulting the condition of an entity, calling it  "The Church" is an exercise in negativity that melds to no good testimony.

It is a dodge, an unsatisfactory excuse for  not being that bond-servant  that willing slave to Jesus that the Holy  Spirit calls out for one to be.

 

Misery always seeks out company of losers. Success strives to win the race and finish it well. Never sit, never, for it gives time for an idle mind to be found by the miserable for gossip and naysaying. Instead be about the serving of our Lord, sharing with the orphan the widow, and raising up the young in knowledge of Jesus.

Fellowship with the brethren sharing a holy kiss even, or if your are a Baptist a hearty hand shake. Don't be a germaphobe, a bubble boy, risk sharing a germ to make a brother a friend. Gather together each with their own flaws, but all  perfect in the sight of God by the shed blood that covers each that are the saints, each called by  the Holy Spirit to salvation  by the sacrificed shed blood of Jesus. Rejoice!

[turtletwo]

2 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

sorry, i dont understand, could you expand a little please?

 Sure. I have gone to both  types of churches. But they have one thing in common. They are far-from-balanced.

The first group, 'the sleeping saints' are what some have described as 'spiritually dead.' They are very rigid. Hung up on their rituals and formulas for what a church service must  be. No room for spontaneity. They don't let the Holy spirit move in their midst. Stuffy and no power there. Just going through the motions. People (literally!) falling asleep. Hence my nickname for it. 

Next group- "the circus saints.' I have been involved in churches that are hyper Charismatic and put too much emphasis on the gifts of the Spirit. The worst case scenarios are the mega churches you see on TV headed by false prophets. They rope people in with 'showiness' such as rock concert atmospheres, supposed miracles, people passing out (the term is 'slain in the Spirit'), etc. It feels more like a circus atmosphere than reverent worship of a holy God.

I am not naming names. And I certainly meant no offense to anyone. Hope I didn't offend you, maryjayne? If so, I apologize.

I just speak of my own bad experiences and diligent searching to find a church true to the scriptural guidelines Paul set forth. I would describe this category as Bereans in studying the scriptures,'decently and in order' in worship and operating in Agape love. 

My prayer is that God will help all those out there who seek Him with their whole heart to find a church God is honored by. I have been blessed to be part of some sound ones over the years. I am no longer able to attend one, due to medical reasons. So my place to fellowship is here at Worthy with my sisters and brothers who are so special to me. God bless you.

[turtletwo]

7 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Faulting the condition of an entity, calling it  "The Church" is an exercise in negativity that melds to no good testimony.

This is true. I hope I did not give that impression to you, friend? I don't mean to paint things too black. I just think we should be cautious in these last days, as this is a time of apostasy. False brethren and wolves do exist. But the church triumphant is still alive. Praise God! Your local assembly is a case in point.

For the record, Neighbor has been kind enough to introduce me to his current church which has live streaming services on YouTube. Being unable to leave home for Sunday services, I now watch these.

Thanks, Neighbor for sharing this with me and caring to help those who are invalids like me or for other reasons can't be part of a local fellowship.

[turtletwo]

1 minute ago, maryjayne said:

I also cannot get to church due to ill health and lack of transport, so i will pray for us both on Sundays, if thats ok?

Yes. I would love that. It is sweet of you to do this.

[turtletwo]

Thanks, maryjayne for sharing that you cannot attend church due to ill health and transportation issues. I am glad to know I am not alone in this predicament. While at the same time I feel bad that you are dealing with these obstacles. I will pray for you also. Btw, I have been enjoying your topics in the forums.

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, turtletwo said:

This is true. I hope I did not give that impression to you, friend? I don't mean to paint things too black.

Hi, If you are inquiring of me, No! I do not think of you  as having anything to do with painting a  dark  picture, and certainly not black. You're a beacon of light, struggling mightily in a territory that has changed radically over years, and yet has many wonderful people still there too.

LA is a tough place, a very tough one to not be ambulatory within.  I still envision the LA that I once knew and drove about daily and how it has changed, when I read your posts.

You have a great uplifting spirit about you, plus you start some really great threads, especially when the mood of the board darkens onto dispute instead of fellowship. You often turn the tide and make it a happier day for many.  Take care.