Jump to content
IGNORED

Explain this if you can


Follower Of Jesus

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Non-Trinitarian
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  72
  • Content Per Day:  0.04
  • Reputation:   28
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  09/22/2018
  • Status:  Offline

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

YEP this lines up with JESUS BEING THE WORD .    The WORD DOES ONLY WHAT IS SPOKEN .   

And the word said... "only the Father knows the hour"

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  17
  • Topic Count:  18
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  13,256
  • Content Per Day:  5.40
  • Reputation:   1
  • Days Won:  62
  • Joined:  07/07/2017
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/25/1972

1 hour ago, Follower Of Jesus said:

And the word said... "only the Father knows the hour"

Because it has not yet Been spoken .      when it is , THE WORD WILL RETURN TO GATHER THE CHURCH AND LAY DOWN THE WRATH .

AS , I SAID THE WORD ONLY DOES WHAT IS SPOKEN .      MAKING SENSE YET .

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Non-Trinitarian
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  72
  • Content Per Day:  0.04
  • Reputation:   28
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  09/22/2018
  • Status:  Offline

2 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Because it has not yet Been spoken .      when it is , THE WORD WILL RETURN TO GATHER THE CHURCH AND LAY DOWN THE WRATH .

AS , I SAID THE WORD ONLY DOES WHAT IS SPOKEN .      MAKING SENSE YET .

Answering questions I didn't ask. I recommend reading my original question again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Servant
  • Followers:  21
  • Topic Count:  237
  • Topics Per Day:  0.11
  • Content Count:  6,773
  • Content Per Day:  3.24
  • Reputation:   4,725
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  07/05/2018
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  09/23/1954

17 hours ago, Follower Of Jesus said:

If the Father told Jesus not to reveal when the hour would come, Jesus wouldn't say "only the Father knows". He would say, "I was told not to reveal it". Jesus doesn't lie and doesn't speak to confuse.

I believe it isn't that Jesus was told not to reveal the final hour, but rather that His Father has communicated that He doesn't want the Son to know and the Son has communicated that He agrees not to know, but also being the Lamb of God, agrees that He will be the One who receives leave to open the scroll in which the secret of the final hour is sealed as He is the only One worthy to do this.

Rev 5:11-12
(11)  And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
(12)  Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. (the seven divine endowments of the Lamb of God)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  1
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  16
  • Content Per Day:  0.01
  • Reputation:   2
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  05/29/2018
  • Status:  Offline

On 9/29/2018 at 6:39 AM, Follower Of Jesus said:

Is the Father God? Yes.

Is the Holy Spirit God? Yes.

Is Jesus God? Yes.

Is God all-knowing? Yes.

Then why does only the Father know when the final hour will be?

 

I’ll try to answer the questions above, by explaining first the roles of : God the Father, God the Holy spirit , God the Son  That they are actually God Him self ( in eternal realm/heaven) who is intending to teach us /His people about Him and His Plan while we are sojourning in this perishable realm.

So finally we surely understand well, then able to bring Glory to Him ( the purpose of creation Isa 43:7 ).

The realm in which we live is a temporal realm, it means that this realm has a period of its existence at a time when it is surpassed that it must no longer exist in its place.

Almighty God is an immortal being unlimited by the dimension  of space and time, and He is also the alpha and omega, meaning that even if the earth we live in has been over  God still remains.

If the earth we live in is a temporary realm, then the creatures that exist on this earth are also temporary (only when this temporal existence exists), if God is eternal then the man He created living on this earth also is not for His ultimate purpose but only for a while wandering or sojourning then surely move to the eternal world (where God is), But how could this temporal being be in eternal realm that is not bound by space and time limitation?, surely they not fit to live in this eternal realm?. The conclusion is the spirit of man that will come eternally and this human spirit surely is not a natural product of this  perishable realm , means that the human spirit must be the eternal realm product which was placed by God to exist in the physical body of man to temporarily wander / sojourn  in This perishable earth for a particular purpose of God which had been planned since before this perishable world was formed.

Zec12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

 

Ecc12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

 

Jer1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations

 

Then what is His particular purpose for His people while sojourning this perishable earth?

If we learn from the Bible that eternal realm is not limited by time, it means that whenever its existence will remain flat its graph / no change / its inhabitant does not get older or more and more clever or more stupid / steady, but not for this perishable realm there is birth there is death there is young there is old there is clever  there is fool, so His particular purpose for His people while sojourning in this perishable earth is Growth for growth does not exist in eternal realm.

 

Rom8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope

 

1Pet1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

 

 

Heb5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat

 

2Pet3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen

 

If God's particular purpose for His people is growth (obviously,  humans prior did not know the difference between good and evil), then what is God's ultimate goal for His creation?

Glorifying God: the human mouth and heart say that “the glory is for God alone”.

 

Isa43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him

 

Eph1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

 

If the ultimate goal (glorifying God) can be achieved simply without passing into the perishable realm, God surely chose  this simplest way, but it turn out that sojourning through this perishable realm is the only way that the ultimate goal can be achieved .

Since man  can glorify God, man must come to understand that the salvation (living in eternal realm with God) is the grace of God alone.

Salvation= grace of God alone, then the men must understand and agree  that they will never be able to achieve the salvation through their own efforts  what ever those sound good.

 

Isa64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away

 

Isa26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us

 

Then for the sake of : to lead His people comprehend well about the premise “ salvation is by God’s Grace alone “ God surely need to communicate to His people while they are sojourning here .

Then start gradually God teaches His people through His word which is written from Genesis to Revelation, and His people verify they themselves.

 In the premise of "Salvation = the grace of God alone" there must be the Chosen people which means the spirit beings/ vessel of mercy (Rom9:23) who were sent  by God from the eternal Realm to the perishable realm while it is in the process of development / purification until finally win / understood ( vessel of mercy abode in to the vessel unto honors ( Rom9:23 , 9:21 ), or only those whose names were written in the book of life Since before the creation of the world, or surely the devil can not partake even though he also exists in the temporal realm( vessels of wrath Rom9:22) and also dwells in the natural human body / earth dust Gen3: 14 /born of flesh ( vessels unto dishonor Rom9:21), then here appears It is clear that there is a difference between those who are the chosen people, and those who are born of flesh where these very people are possible to become the camp of the devil ----- >  the chosen = born of God (in the physical body there is a human spirit which God sent to wander/sojourn On earth /vessels of mercy Rom9:23 abide in to vessels unto honor Rom9:21), relating to this then God is the Father of this chosen people, there is also the man of the world = the dust = born of flesh = possible to be the devil’s camp= possible the devil surely will be the father of these men (John 8:44 ,Mat 3:7, Mat23:33 , swine Mark5:12 ).

Rom9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

John1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

So it is clear: in order to His people/the chosen understood that “salvation = the grace of God alone” then; God must introduce Himself as the Father of His people ----> God the Father.

Isa63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

 

 Mat23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven

 

 

It must also be taught  to them/His people/the chosen that while they are sojourning/wandering in this perishable earth they surely will be kept by God Himself as a guide, entertainer, helper, that they surely will not be a meal of the devil, here: God must introduce Himself as the Holy Spirit ----> God the Holy spirit.

 

Luke11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

11:25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.

11:26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first

 

Isa44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isa51:12 I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;

 

Isa46:3 Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:

46:4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you

Finally His people also should be compelled to witnessing the manifestation of the God Grace that was demonstrated by the Messiah/ the Redeemer/ the Savior  through crucifixion and resurrection ( because naturally they will never grasp and admit about it , proven : no one realized that they were all vanity creatures they still enthusiastically tried to fulfill the mosaic laws until that time/ Jesus time ( Sabbath, circumcise , sacrifice , fasting etc ) , though they had been given about 1,500 years period of time for verifying they themselves  about their vanity in the God eyes , began from the day God gave the mosaic laws in Mosses age until Jesus ), where in the OT also had been revealed well that the savior is only God Himself, the redeemer is only God Himself ( Isa 49:26) , so relating to this event : God must introduce Himself as ---> God the Son.

 

Hence until here it is clear that God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit are the identities of God Himself to play the roles needed ,so that His people who were sent to sojourn to this perishable realm  understand well “ that Salvation = only by God’s Grace.

 

 Some additions  ; If God did not create men in this perishable realm, then there must have been an eternal realm whose inhabitants were God, angels and demons (the spirits), where the angel had no gender, would God introduce Himself as God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit to the angels? Of course not because the term is very strange to them who is genderless, not able to multiply, and who cannot interchange his position (from devil to faithful angel  vice versa).

 

Isa44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

 

Can His people finally understand? Salvation= God's grace alone if God did not introduce Himself as God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit to man?.

Now we have understood well , God the Father , God the Holy spirit , God the Son are the roles of our Almighty God to lead us / His people to the understanding  , then finally we surely can bring Glory to Him.

In His role as our Father, He surely know who is His very last chosen people (the time when He sent this last name to abide in to the vessel unto honor Rom9:21  = this old earth is getting over )/ the last name in the book of life which was written before the creation of the world , then surely only this related  role is the only One who really knows when the final hour will be “.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by adhidw
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  15
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  308
  • Content Per Day:  0.15
  • Reputation:   47
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  09/25/2018
  • Status:  Offline

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 9:39 PM, Follower Of Jesus said:

Is the Father God? Yes.

Is the Holy Spirit God? Yes.

Is Jesus God? Yes.

Is God all-knowing? Yes.

Then why does only the Father know when the final hour will be?

 

It is only recorded that the Father knows the final hour.

Consider the dispensation/creation of the Universe and TIME.

But there is only ONE God and for the purpose of His Plan for Man and His manifestation in TIME we have Trinity, but in God Himself I believe there is only One.

But then again if we completely know God and understand this about Him this would make us "all-knowing."

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Non-Trinitarian
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  72
  • Content Per Day:  0.04
  • Reputation:   28
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  09/22/2018
  • Status:  Offline

3 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Because that is the way the Father wanted it to be, and the Son obeyed the Father.

Unless of course, you're insinuating that the Son would maintain His knowledge of this during His time on Earth in defiance of the Father? After all, if God is supreme, then by necessity, He is not a slave to His abilities but commands them and what He does and when.  If Jesus wants to forego knowledge of an event, being God, he is well able to do so.

You're saying Jesus gave up his knowledge when he became human, or atleast that particular knowledge.

Let's explore that.

Did Jesus have a divine knowledge in human form? 

He could read minds, know peoples lives before having met them, forgive sins, command nature, raise the dead, etc.

Then you might say, "He did those things by the Spirit". When did he get the Spirit? When he was baptized around age 30. 

Let's look at Matthew, where a young Jesus was full of wisdom, teaching in the temple. Where did he get this knowledge?

Are you saying Jesus gave up certain knowledge?

Now another perspective. If in fact the Spirit guided Jesus in his last years, what to do and say. Then the SPIRIT told him to say, "only the Father knows". That was said as a general fact. Otherwise Jesus would be lying, because he would know that he knew before incarnating, and would know after exaltation. 

When Jesus taught, he taught in a foreknowledge. When he taught the moral law, he taught it before it was finished. When he broke bread, he did it before it was finished. Then you can't say, what Jesus taught of himself or the Father, was only for that period of his life (temporary teachings that would fall away).

If truly Jesus knew when the final hour was, the Spirit wouldn't direct him to say, "only the Father knows", which would be permanently sealed in scripture.

The issue with people trying to explain this, isn't a lack of comprehension of the verse. It's that the true meaning of the verse, doesn't suit very many doctrines. So people must manipulate, and twist their explanation to fit their doctrines. Scripture was written to be understood simply. If you need 5 pages of writing to explain a single verse, you probably don't know it.

Edited by Follower Of Jesus
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  17
  • Topic Count:  18
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  13,256
  • Content Per Day:  5.40
  • Reputation:   1
  • Days Won:  62
  • Joined:  07/07/2017
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/25/1972

10 hours ago, Follower Of Jesus said:

Answering questions I didn't ask. I recommend reading my original question again.

But you did .  Sometimes when an answer makes too much sense and it goes against our preconceived ideals the only way to respond is just like you did .

Other folks have given good answers too .    So ponder this next question , do you really ask in earnst your question ,  or is it more to create a doubt .

Because I seen some good answers and I seen you ducking them.   

If the purspose of your question is to truly find an answer ,  then WHY resist these answers .      It is more often when one keeps resisting the simple answers

that indeed something else is in the mind of the person who brought such a  question .   And if in earnst you seek an answer , then why resist the simple truth

when it is brought to you .   

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Non-Trinitarian
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  72
  • Content Per Day:  0.04
  • Reputation:   28
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  09/22/2018
  • Status:  Offline

16 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

But you did .  Sometimes when an answer makes too much sense and it goes against our preconceived ideals the only way to respond is just like you did .

Other folks have given good answers too .    So ponder this next question , do you really ask in earnst your question ,  or is it more to create a doubt .

Because I seen some good answers and I seen you ducking them.   

If the purspose of your question is to truly find an answer ,  then WHY resist these answers .      It is more often when one keeps resisting the simple answers

that indeed something else is in the mind of the person who brought such a  question .   And if in earnst you seek an answer , then why resist the simple truth

when it is brought to you .   

This is a deep question, that needs more than simple answers.

The "answers" people gave, weren't correct.

You keep calling these answers truth, but that doesn't make it so.

Like I said kindly to everyone else, if you don't have the answer. Move on please.

I don't want to create strife, and we're not on the subject anymore. It's become, 'I said: you said".

Edited by Follower Of Jesus
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  5
  • Topic Count:  53
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,371
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   1,489
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/05/2016
  • Status:  Offline

Ponder on these two verses for a while and maybe you can see something that you did not see before.  It is only two verses ,but explains it all.  

John 10 King James Version (KJV)

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...