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2 Cor 5:6-8

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
KJV

 

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Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

The most explicit reference to our going to Heaven is likely Christ's promise found in John 14:2-3. That coupled with the plethora of references concerning Christ being in heaven at this time causes us to believe that He will come again and receive us unto Himself that where He is we may be also. There is also ancillary evidence that we will be going to Heaven.

Heb 10:34  For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

Col 1:5  For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Php 3:20  For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Eph 3:15  Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

It is also true that the innumerable multitude spoken of in Rev 7:9-17 are the redeemed taken in the rapture, and we are seen standing before the throne of God in Heaven.

Glory be to Jesus Christ

Edited by Steve Conley
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19 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

It is also true that the innumerable multitude spoken of in Rev 7:9-17 are the redeemed taken in the rapture, and we are seen standing before the throne of God in Heaven.

Could you show me the scripture from Rev.7 thats says the throne of God is in heaven?

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20 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

 

It is also true that the innumerable multitude spoken of in Rev 7:9-17 are the redeemed taken in the rapture, and we are seen standing before the throne of God in Heaven.

Not true Steve

REV.7 [1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the FOUR WINDS of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.[2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.[5] Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.[6] Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.[7] Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.[8] Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, A GREAT MULTITUDE, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The 4 winds blow – A great multitude {the great army of  Ezek.37 v 10}

EZEK.37 [9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the FOUR WINDS, O breath, and BREATHE UPON THESE SLAIN, THAT THEY MAY LIVE.[10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, AN EXCEEDING GREAT ARMY.[11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, AND CAUSE YOU TO COME UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, AND BRING YOU INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,[14] And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

The 4 winds blow – The dead in Christ rise 1st {1Cor.15} {Zeke 37v12} – They are brought to Israel and not to heaven as the Rapturist claim – A great army -

MATT.24 [29] IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with a GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and they SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, from one end of heaven to the other.

The 4 winds blow – God gathers His elect {in the twinkling of an eye} after the tribulation as the last trumpet {and its a great trumpet} sounds

Edited by WailingWall

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16 hours ago, WailingWall said:

Not true Steve

REV.7 [1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the FOUR WINDS of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.[2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.[5] Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.[6] Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.[7] Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.[8] Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, A GREAT MULTITUDE, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The 4 winds blow – A great multitude {the great army of  Ezek.37 v 10}

EZEK.37 [9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the FOUR WINDS, O breath, and BREATHE UPON THESE SLAIN, THAT THEY MAY LIVE.[10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, AN EXCEEDING GREAT ARMY.[11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, AND CAUSE YOU TO COME UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, AND BRING YOU INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,[14] And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

The 4 winds blow – The dead in Christ rise 1st {1Cor.15} {Zeke 37v12} – They are brought to Israel and not to heaven as the Rapturist claim – A great army -

MATT.24 [29] IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with a GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and they SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, from one end of heaven to the other.

The 4 winds blow – God gathers His elect {in the twinkling of an eye} after the tribulation as the last trumpet {and its a great trumpet} sounds

5

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

WW, you have zeroed in on the mention of the four winds in three different passages of Scripture. If I understand you correctly, you are implying that it is a technical term that means more than north, south, east, and west. If the four winds is a technical term that refers to something other than the directions of the compass, and it means consistently the same thing throughout the Scriptures, then We would conclude that these winds will be held by four angels in the future. This holding either prevents the winds from blowing upon the earth, sea, and trees causing them to be hurt. Or it means that if they release the winds the earth, sea and trees will be hurt corresponding to the first four trumpet judgements. Also, it would be true that the breath that gives life comes from the four winds and that they in a future day will bring to life the whole house of Israel. Lastly, from these 3 texts, we see that at Christ's arrival the elect is gathered from these four winds. So, they can help or hurt the earth, sea, and trees, they can give life to the dead so that they are resurrected, and they are that from which the elect are gathered.

But we shouldn't rely only upon these three references to inform us concerning the four winds, we should look at every reference to them.

Jer 49:36  And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come.

Dan 7:2  Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
Dan 7:3  And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Dan 8:8  Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

Dan 11:4  And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

Zec 2:4  And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:
Zec 2:5  For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
Zec 2:6  Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.
Zec 2:7  Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
Zec 2:8  For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

Mar 13:27  And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Considering all the evidence it doesn't look like you have support for your claims.

Also, the great multitude is made up primarily Gentiles, as it is said that they are "of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues". The word "nations" is translated from ethnos which is the word most often translated Gentile.

They don't look like the same group to me.

Glory to Jesus Christ

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22 hours ago, WailingWall said:

Could you show me the scripture from Rev.7 thats says the throne of God is in heaven?

Hi Wailingwall...

The throne in heaven is described in Rev 4:1-5. It is the throne of God.

Rev 7:15 says....." therefore, they are before the throne of God"

Same throne,  Rev 4 places it in heaven

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On 9/29/2018 at 1:34 AM, WailingWall said:

After we are changed in the twinkling of an eye are there any scriptures that directly say we are headin for heaven?

Nope not one

The only way one gets to Heaven is at death.Those who have died come back with Christ from Heaven ,those alive at that time will be changed to like those coming from Heaven.

ALL are changed,not just those in Christ,the difference is in the state of your soul,ie,mortal or immortal,contrary to what most think,the soul is not automatically immortal.

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17 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

WW, you have zeroed in on the mention of the four winds in three different passages of Scripture. If I understand you correctly, you are implying that it is a technical term that means more than north, south, east, and west. If the four winds is a technical term that refers to something other than the directions of the compass, and it means consistently the same thing throughout the Scriptures, then We would conclude that these winds will be held by four angels in the future. This holding either prevents the winds from blowing upon the earth, sea, and trees causing them to be hurt. Or it means that if they release the winds the earth, sea and trees will be hurt corresponding to the first four trumpet judgements. Also, it would be true that the breath that gives life comes from the four winds and that they in a future day will bring to life the whole house of Israel. Lastly, from these 3 texts, we see that at Christ's arrival the elect is gathered from these four winds. So, they can help or hurt the earth, sea, and trees, they can give life to the dead so that they are resurrected, and they are that from which the elect are gathered.

But we shouldn't rely only upon these three references to inform us concerning the four winds, we should look at every reference to them.

Jer 49:36  And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come.

Dan 7:2  Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
Dan 7:3  And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Dan 8:8  Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

Dan 11:4  And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

Zec 2:4  And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:
Zec 2:5  For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
Zec 2:6  Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.
Zec 2:7  Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
Zec 2:8  For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

Mar 13:27  And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Considering all the evidence it doesn't look like you have support for your claims.

Also, the great multitude is made up primarily Gentiles, as it is said that they are "of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues". The word "nations" is translated from ethnos which is the word most often translated Gentile.

They don't look like the same group to me.

Glory to Jesus Christ

Hello SC

So which of the scriptures concerning the 4 winds is NOT talking about the scattering or gathering of Gods people? Just read them all. I cant find a one

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14 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Wailingwall...

The throne in heaven is described in Rev 4:1-5. It is the throne of God.

Rev 7:15 says....." therefore, they are before the throne of God"

Same throne,  Rev 4 places it in heaven

Hey JoeCanada

Think weve been over this already

Matthew 25:31 (KJV)
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

When Jesus returns to earth His throne is returning with Him

 

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On 9/29/2018 at 4:36 AM, R. Hartono said:

Daniel 12:1-3

1 And at that time (this time has arrived) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble (JESUS spoke about this time), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time (this time has arrived): and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

What I think that is very interesting, is the fact that the archangel is one of the angels that was in the house of Lot in Sodom, and Lot made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.  But they, the people of Sodom, do not know that he was an archangel, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the MEN which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

And today? And now?

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