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When do Revelations seals open

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WHEN DO REVELATION’S SEALS OPEN?

( I'm submitting this article by Nelson Walters from  "the Gospel in the End Times".  It's a bit lengthy, but it's a great perspective )

When do Revelation’s Seals open? The majority of Christians believe it is during the 70th Week of Daniel, but a minority believe it happens prior to that time. Some even believe they have already been opened.

There isn’t a prophecy that gives us this information with 100% certainty, but there are several key prophecies that let us know which theory is correct with relative certainty. I believe this may be the only available published analysis of this crucial topic-when do revelation’s seals open?

Event One: Deception by False Messiahs

Bible commentators have long recognized that the events in Matt. 24:4-30 are directly parallel to the first six seals of Revelation (Rev. 6:1-17). This exact parallel is presented in the following table from the book Revelation Deciphered:

Sign Pattern of Seven Events Matt. 24 Rev. 6
 Event One Deception by False Messiahs vv. 4–5, 23–26 vv. 1–2
 Event Two War, Bloodshed, and Chaos vv. 6–7 vv. 3–4
 Event Three Famine and Economic Collapse v. 7 vv. 5–6
 Event Four Abomination and Death v. 9, 15–21 vv. 7–8
 Event Five Martyrdom and Apostasy vv. 9–14 vv. 9–11
 Event Six Celestial Earthly Disturbance v. 29 vv. 12–17

The first of these events is Deception by False Messiahs. This event is summarized by the two parallel passages:

See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not go after them. (Luke 21:8)

Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, “Come.” I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer. (Rev. 6:1-2)

From the table, we can assume these passages are discussing the same spiritual deception that is initiated with the opening of the first seal.

However, in English, the first seal (in Revelation) doesn’t appear to be a spiritual deception at all. One reason is there is a misconception about the translated words “conquering and to conquer.” The poor English translation leads one to imagine military action, but the actual Greek word that “conquering and to conquer” is based on is NIKAO which means to overcome as in “overcome evil with good,” or “I have overcome the world.” In the New Testament it always refers to a spiritual overcoming not a military one. Proper translation changes everything.

The one who rides the white horse is attempting to overcome partly by “looking like Jesus.” That is why in Luke, Jesus says directly that this deceiver claims “I am He.” In Revelation, symbols are used to convey this thought. Both Jesus and this rider ride white horses (Jesus in Rev. 19:11). Both wear crowns, but Jesus’s crown is a kingly crown, this one is a victors crown. And, as we see, both are overcomers; one for good and one for evil. Who is it who attempts to look like Jesus and spiritually deceive his followers? The Antichrist and False Prophet, of course.

That leaves the symbol of the “bow.” Many have theorized what this bow without arrows is all about.  Some have claimed it might be missiles without warheads as in an illusion to Saddam Hussein-in other words symbolizing weapons that aren’t there. Most, however, claim it is an illusion to a false peace treaty.

This later theory can actually be substantiated biblically. As we perform exegisis on a biblical symbol, the first use of that symbol in the bible is what the symbol means from that point on. This is called the law of primacy. The first use of “bow” is shocking:

I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth. (Gen. 9:13)

Genesis tells us that “bow” without arrows signifies a covenant. God’s covenant in Genesis 9:13 was a world wide peace covenant between our Lord and the inhabitants of the earth in that he would no longer flood the earth. In Rev. 6:2, the “bow” symbolizes a covenant that most likely will be the Covenant with the many- the peace treaty that initiates the 70th Week of Daniel! This is fairly direct evidence that the seals most likely opening during the 70th Week (upon the Covenant with the Many) not before.

Under the Authority of the Beasts

A related point involves the fourth seal. The final verse of that passage reads:

I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by (lit. “under the authority of”) the wild beasts of the earth. (Rev. 6:8)

If the killing is done under the authority of the beasts (False Prophet and Beast), then this must happen during the 70th Week of Daniel. This does not prove that all the seals open after the beginning of the 70th Week, but it supports it.

Thrones

In Daniel (Dan. 7:9-10), there is a passage that directly parallels Rev. 4-8, the passage where the seals are opened. Notice from the table below (also from the book Revelation Deciphered) that there are six, exact, fingerprint similarities between this short 2 verse passage in Daniel and  chapters 4-8 in Revelation. They are both showing the same events, but the Daniel passage is a highly abbreviated and compressed version of the exact same vision:

Similarity Dan. 7 Rev. 4-8
Thrones for elders Thrones were set up (v.9) 24 thrones for 24 elders (v.4:4)
Throne for God The Ancient of Days took His seat (v. 9) A throne in heaven and one sitting upon the throne (4:2)
Appearance of God Hair like wool (v.9) Body like Beryl (10:6) Hair like wool (1:14), Body like jaspar and Sardius (4:3)
Appearance of the Throne River of fire coming out before him (v. 10) Flashes of lightning from out of the throne (4:5)
Presence of angels

 

(Exact Quote)

Thousands upon thousands and myriads upon myriads (v. 10) Myriads upon myriads and thousands upon thousands (5:11)
The book(s) The books were opened (v.10) Jesus opens the scroll (6-8:1)

Prior to the passage in Dan. 7:9-10 we observe these events happening:

While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts. (Dan. 7:8)

So since Dan. 7:9-10 is the same as Rev. chapters 4-6, we can assume what happens in Dan. 7:8 is previous to the opening of the seals as well.  These events show that the 10 kings will arise and the Antichrist will subdue 3 of the kings prior to the seals. This indicates that the Antichrist is already active when the first seal is broken, supporting a timetable of all the seals being opened in the 70th Week.

Beginning of the Birth Pangs

We have already shown how the events of Matt. 24 parallel those of Rev. 6 and the seals. In Matt. 24:8, Jesus calls the first three of these events “the beginning of the birth pangs” (as opposed to severe labor pains.) So when do the severe labor pains begin? Jesus was referencing Isaiah:

Therefore all hands will fall limp, and every man’s heart will melt. They will be terrified, pains and anguish will take hold of themThey will writhe like a woman in labor, They will look at one another in astonishment, their faces aflame. Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, to make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it.  For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises and the moon will not shed its light. (Isa. 13:7-10)

Isaiah mentions that the severe labor pains happen in the proximity of the Day of the Lord-notice reference to the Celestial Earthly Distrubance (stars falling, sun and moon darkened) which is the same as Rev. 6:12-17. I contend that the severe labor begins on the Day of the Lord. Notice what the Bible says about when hearts will melt:

The Lord is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt (Isa. 19:1)

As for you, son of man, groan with breaking heart and bitter grief, groan in their sight.  And when they say to you, ‘Why do you groan?’ you shall say, ‘Because of the news that is coming; and every heart will melt, all hands will be feeble, every spirit will faint and all knees will be weak as water. Behold, it comes and it will happen,’ declares the Lord God. . . . A sword, a sword sharpened and also polished! Sharpened to make a slaughter, Polished to flash like lightning!” (Ezek. 21:6-10)

God says that hearts melt when he comes on the clouds and dispenses justice with his sword on the Day of the Lord.

So we have established that the severe labor pains are the Wrath of God that will occur after the Celestial Earthly Disturbance. When do the “Beginning of the Birth Pangs” happen then? Pre-labor pains begin only a short time prior to the labor. So the Beginning of the Birth Pangs must be close to the Day of the Lord which is near the end of the 70th Week. It only makes sense then that the seals open during this “Shabua” (the 70th Week) not prior to it.

Zechariah’s Horses

After Jesus breaks each seal in Revelation, a colored horse comes forth onto the earth. These horses are White, Red, Black, and Green. We are first introduced to these horses in Zech. 6. The first three are identical in color to the Revelation horses. In Zechariah, the last horse is listed as “speckled” which isn’t a color but rather a pattern. Although we aren’t told it’s Green in Zechariah, that isn’t precluded because Zechariah only describes this horse by its pattern not color.

Zechariah tells us the exact timing of the release of the horses:

Now I lifted up my eyes again and looked, and behold, four chariots were coming forth from between the two mountains; and the mountains were bronze mountains. (Zech. 6:1)

The horses (chariots are listed as well in Zechariah) go forth between two mountains of bronze. Bronze is a reference to Daniel’s statue of the four metals (Dan. 2) and refers to the Hellenistic Empire (Greece). Mountain is a symbol of Kingdom from that same Chapter in Daniel. So the horses come forth from between two future Hellenistic Kingdoms. Further in Daniel we see these Kingdoms listed.

In Dan. 8, we see their future  establishment. Yavan (the bronze kingdom) is split into four subkingdoms and the Antichrist comes out of one of these:

The shaggy goat represents the kingdom of Greece (lit. YAVAN), and the large horn that is between his eyes is the first king. The broken horn and the four horns that arose in its place represent four kingdoms which will arise from hisnation, although not with his power. (Dan. 8:21-22)

So the two mountains of bronze are two of these four kingdoms. Later we learn that two of these kingdoms become more prominent than the others. Daniel refers to them as the King of the North and King of the South.

At the end time the king of the South will collide with him, and the king of the North will storm against him. (Dan. 11:40)

In my opinion these are the two kingdoms between which the horses will ride.

If this analysis is correct, What will be the timetable? We know from Mark Davidson’s groundbreaking analysis of Dan. 8 that Iran will first invade the middle east, second Turkey will crush Iran, and finally this new Turkish empire will be split into these four Kingdoms, four kingdoms of “bronze”. It is only at this final point that Revelation’s horses can ride because that is when the “mountains of bronze” are formed.

This then gives us a rough timetable for the release of the four horses as “close” to the 70th Week, and after the Iranian invasion and after Turkey’s counterattack of Iran and after the division of Turkey into 4 sub-nations. Because none of these events have happened yet, we can surmise that none of the seals have opened yet as well. These events are all yet future.

 The Abomination of Desolation

Again, we refer back to the seminal analysis that Matt. 24 and Rev. 6 are two parallel views of the same events.  We know from Dan. 9:27 that the Abomination of Desolation mentioned in Matt. 24:15-16 takes place at the midpoint of the 70th Week of Daniel.  This event is parallel to the fourth seal of Revelation.

We know the fourth seal is the Abomination of Desolation because we see Death riding the horse and Sheol (Hades) following. These are the same two characters with whom Israel makes the Covenant with the Many (The Covenant with Death and Sheol – Isa. 28:15). Thus we see that at the breaking of this covenant, these two characters ride out to kill (at the initiation of the Great Tribulation.)

What happens during the first 3 1/2 years of the 70th Week? Is it more likely that the first three events happen prior to the 70th Week with nothing happening during the first half of the 70th Week, or is it more likely that these first three events happen during the first half, the fourth event happens at the midpoint and then the final three events (or seals) occur in the second half? Obviously it is more logical that that the first three seals are also in the 70th Week of Daniel.

Although this isn’t a “proof,” it is a logical approach to the scripture.

When Do Revelation’s Seals Open?

There isn’t a “smoking gun” that absolutely indicates that the seals open during the 70th Week of Daniel, but there are a few things we do know:

  1. The seals will open AFTER the appearance of Antichrist and his subduing of three kings.
  2. The seals will open AFTER the coming of the King of the North and the King of the South and their respective empires.
  3. The seals will open AFTER Iran invades the Middle East, Turkey crushes Iran, and after Turkey is divided into four separate countries.
  4. The seals will open in near proximity to the Day of the Lord and the Abomination of Desolation
  5. Based on Rev. 6;2 (“he had a bow”), it is extremely likely the first seal opens when the Covenant with the Many is signed.

So although the evidence isn’t 100%, the overwhelming suggestion of all these passages is that the seals begin to open at the inception of the 70th Week. But we can say with relative certainty that none of the seals have opened yet.

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More or less my thoughts exactly; except for the Iran, Turkey, KOTN, KOTS thing.

I think it can be known with 100% certainty the seals have not opened and they commence to open at the beginning of the 70th week. Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are THE end of the age passages in the NT.

It's quite clear these are an overview of the end, which a single generation will witness. Revelation is the detailed account of the outline and order of events from the aforementioned Gospels. 

One difference I would offer is the 1st seal event. It seems that will be the rise of beast prior to STRENGTHENING of the already existing covenant. Since It's a STRENGTHENING and not freshly minted the power and authority of the beast exists before the covenant is CONFIRMED. Why so? The original authors and principles may not have the power, authority or fortitude to satisfy the terms and so consideration is not realized. Since it's going to be a covenant for peace between Israel and many, with a Temple as the centerpiece of Jewish terms, it's going to take a higher level of power, authority and fortitude to satisfy terms.

Satisfying the terms will come much easier when the one backing the covenant is, "to be strong, mighty, in the confirmation and riding the awe and worship of the world in the power and authority of Satan.

The rider of the 1st seal about which is said, "and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest." , is on the mission of conquest. So the power exists first, probably takes over those three countries we hear so much about, the covenant is strengthened, and this rider conquers all the enemies of Israel while they construct the Temple; after which he turns on the Jews, of course.

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4 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

WHEN DO REVELATION’S SEALS OPEN?

( I'm submitting this article by Nelson Walters from  "the Gospel in the End Times".  It's a bit lengthy, but it's a great perspective )

When do Revelation’s Seals open? The majority of Christians believe it is during the 70th Week of Daniel, but a minority believe it happens prior to that time. Some even believe they have already been opened.

There isn’t a prophecy that gives us this information with 100% certainty, but there are several key prophecies that let us know which theory is correct with relative certainty. I believe this may be the only available published analysis of this crucial topic-when do revelation’s seals open?

Event One: Deception by False Messiahs

Bible commentators have long recognized that the events in Matt. 24:4-30 are directly parallel to the first six seals of Revelation (Rev. 6:1-17). This exact parallel is presented in the following table from the book Revelation Deciphered:

Sign Pattern of Seven Events Matt. 24 Rev. 6
 Event One Deception by False Messiahs vv. 4–5, 23–26 vv. 1–2
 Event Two War, Bloodshed, and Chaos vv. 6–7 vv. 3–4
 Event Three Famine and Economic Collapse v. 7 vv. 5–6
 Event Four Abomination and Death v. 9, 15–21 vv. 7–8
 Event Five Martyrdom and Apostasy vv. 9–14 vv. 9–11
 Event Six Celestial Earthly Disturbance v. 29 vv. 12–17

The first of these events is Deception by False Messiahs. This event is summarized by the two parallel passages:

See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not go after them. (Luke 21:8)

Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, “Come.” I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer. (Rev. 6:1-2)

From the table, we can assume these passages are discussing the same spiritual deception that is initiated with the opening of the first seal.

However, in English, the first seal (in Revelation) doesn’t appear to be a spiritual deception at all. One reason is there is a misconception about the translated words “conquering and to conquer.” The poor English translation leads one to imagine military action, but the actual Greek word that “conquering and to conquer” is based on is NIKAO which means to overcome as in “overcome evil with good,” or “I have overcome the world.” In the New Testament it always refers to a spiritual overcoming not a military one. Proper translation changes everything.

The one who rides the white horse is attempting to overcome partly by “looking like Jesus.” That is why in Luke, Jesus says directly that this deceiver claims “I am He.” In Revelation, symbols are used to convey this thought. Both Jesus and this rider ride white horses (Jesus in Rev. 19:11). Both wear crowns, but Jesus’s crown is a kingly crown, this one is a victors crown. And, as we see, both are overcomers; one for good and one for evil. Who is it who attempts to look like Jesus and spiritually deceive his followers? The Antichrist and False Prophet, of course.

That leaves the symbol of the “bow.” Many have theorized what this bow without arrows is all about.  Some have claimed it might be missiles without warheads as in an illusion to Saddam Hussein-in other words symbolizing weapons that aren’t there. Most, however, claim it is an illusion to a false peace treaty.

This later theory can actually be substantiated biblically. As we perform exegisis on a biblical symbol, the first use of that symbol in the bible is what the symbol means from that point on. This is called the law of primacy. The first use of “bow” is shocking:

I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth. (Gen. 9:13)

Genesis tells us that “bow” without arrows signifies a covenant. God’s covenant in Genesis 9:13 was a world wide peace covenant between our Lord and the inhabitants of the earth in that he would no longer flood the earth. In Rev. 6:2, the “bow” symbolizes a covenant that most likely will be the Covenant with the many- the peace treaty that initiates the 70th Week of Daniel! This is fairly direct evidence that the seals most likely opening during the 70th Week (upon the Covenant with the Many) not before.

Under the Authority of the Beasts

A related point involves the fourth seal. The final verse of that passage reads:

I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by (lit. “under the authority of”) the wild beasts of the earth. (Rev. 6:8)

If the killing is done under the authority of the beasts (False Prophet and Beast), then this must happen during the 70th Week of Daniel. This does not prove that all the seals open after the beginning of the 70th Week, but it supports it.

Thrones

In Daniel (Dan. 7:9-10), there is a passage that directly parallels Rev. 4-8, the passage where the seals are opened. Notice from the table below (also from the book Revelation Deciphered) that there are six, exact, fingerprint similarities between this short 2 verse passage in Daniel and  chapters 4-8 in Revelation. They are both showing the same events, but the Daniel passage is a highly abbreviated and compressed version of the exact same vision:

Similarity Dan. 7 Rev. 4-8
Thrones for elders Thrones were set up (v.9) 24 thrones for 24 elders (v.4:4)
Throne for God The Ancient of Days took His seat (v. 9) A throne in heaven and one sitting upon the throne (4:2)
Appearance of God Hair like wool (v.9) Body like Beryl (10:6) Hair like wool (1:14), Body like jaspar and Sardius (4:3)
Appearance of the Throne River of fire coming out before him (v. 10) Flashes of lightning from out of the throne (4:5)
Presence of angels

 

(Exact Quote)

Thousands upon thousands and myriads upon myriads (v. 10) Myriads upon myriads and thousands upon thousands (5:11)
The book(s) The books were opened (v.10) Jesus opens the scroll (6-8:1)

 

.......................

.......................

 The Abomination of Desolation

We know the fourth seal is the Abomination of Desolation because we see Death riding the horse and Sheol (Hades) following. These are the same two characters with whom Israel makes the Covenant with the Many (The Covenant with Death and Sheol – Isa. 28:15). Thus we see that at the breaking of this covenant, these two characters ride out to kill (at the initiation of the Great Tribulation.)

...............

...............

When Do Revelation’s Seals Open?

There isn’t a “smoking gun” that absolutely indicates that the seals open during the 70th Week of Daniel, but there are a few things we do know:

  1. The seals will open AFTER the appearance of Antichrist and his subduing of three kings.

 

(Zero Gentile Corruption - Which is Adding)

1. SEAL 1 = 62 Weeks

2. SEAL 2 = 69 Weeks

3. SEAL 3 = "One Week and Middle of the Week"

4. SEAL 4 = "End of 70 Weeks" (begins 153 days)

(God only gives us these divisions of Daniel .................. the 4th Vial/4th SEAL/4th Trumpet is when God darkens the sun, when God touches this Earth/Creation Again, since he has rested on the 6th Day (nothing happens beyond that), then God finishes the Work (this is the only act God performs after the 6 Days of Creation) (God worked for 6 Days, but that isn't a proclaimation that God would open 6 SEALS, remember since God rested and the father fell asleep, all thing have remained since creation, until God acts to finish the work, in a moment in the twinkling of an eye) (Matthew 24 only talks about the 3rd SEAL, to the end of the 3rd SEAL ............. no more, it only goes to 4th Vial/4th SEAL/4th Trumpet when God darkens the sun and global euthanasia takes place in a instant in the twinkling of an eye) (Matthew 24:29)

 

(Zero Gentile Corruption - Which is Adding) (Continued)

62 Weeks ... 69 Weeks ... 1290 Days ... 70th Year ... 1335 Days = 70 Weeks

62Wks...69Wks...1260/1290Days...70th Year...1335/153 Days = 70 Weeks

(We die Globally when God begins 153 Days, We only see to 1335 Days More, we die, but God counts 153 more days) (This Turncoated Figure of 153 Days, is the legal reason we can pair "1260/1290" as one length, God disputing the Gentiles before the 70th Year, if you don't want to count 42 Years before Solstice Precessional Alignment ............... God disputing your Sin against Moses with the Gospel's Law, in your Global Mass Suicide Pleasure, of inc/rape/murder with his body and testimony)

2300Days then 1260/1290 Days...70th Year...1335 Days then 153 Days = 70 Weeks (5/21/2011 to 5/21/2021 + 153 Days to 10/21/2021, humanity is dead at beginning of 153 Days)

EZRA 8:34 By number [and] by weight of every one: and all the weight was written at that time.

EZRA 8:35 [Also] the children of those that had been carried away, which were come out of the captivity, offered burnt offerings unto the God of Israel, twelve bullocks for all Israel, ninety and six rams, seventy and seven lambs, twelve he goats [for] a sin offering: all [this was] a burnt offering unto the LORD.

MATTHEW 20:5Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and d id likewise.

MATTHEW 20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

1260/1290 One Period to 70th Year, then 1335 One Period and 153 One Period

 

(Daniel 7 and Revelation 4-8, proves one thing only, that God does not operate outside the "70 Weeks" of relative Years, for Daniel.  That Means the Legal arguments of "666/1600" are simply more detail within the divisions of Daniel's Weeks, as we've said ................. Turin Shroud of Jesus to 9/11/2001 (1600) ............... 9/11/2001 to Nibiru Catalysm in 2003...or...5/21/2012 to Flight 370 (666) 

 

(God's divisions of Daniel Observe What?  They don't Observe directly the Celestial Arguments, or Cataclysms ............... when a "Gentile Prophecy" adds to the gospel ................... like William Miller, Issac Newton, or Saint Malachy, they will typically base a conclusion on a Celestial Argument, or Cataclysms like Halley's Comet in 2060 for Issac Newton, or the Precessional Cycle of 25,620 or so Years for William Miller, or the Solar Cycle of 52 Years hypothical for the 12/21/2012 with Saint Malachy)

(God however, measures 70 Base Years for a Generation not connected to Celestial Degrees, not connected to 72 for the One Precessional Degree in Years ........................... this can be tricky ...................... but when God gives a sign like 9/11/2001 and Flight 370 ...................... the conflict of discernment is resolved, there is no longer a controversy, or a need to use "Gentile Conclusions that Add to the Gospel's Law, and are factitious/false)

 

(We talked about ethnic euthanasia in the City of Philadelphia, about nightly walks recently, then you have seen for yourselves, ethnic people slamming a negro child to his death on the train tracks, hoping the body would be obliterated into pieces to cover up the crime, but what you have left over is, "nobody knows what happened" ......................... but let me ask you a question ..................... did you send negro or ethnic police officers to the scene of that crime ......................... you never know, I did go to the City of Philadelphia, City Hall, like usual, right where that happened, expecting to see more dead bodies euthanized like that by ethnic people, concealed by the ethnic police force corruption, but nothing else happened in succession ........................ now if my legal evidence is only a claim then, its not viable) (I made the claim that over their dead bodies, I would be a free man, that a false witness has no value with god, either living or either dead, you need to do the math on that one, if you want to see if anything happens more or not)

(Ethinc Euthanasia after dark perhaps Monday or Tuesday in the City of Philadelphia at City Hall, again you do the math, the quicker they kill themselves in succession and play make believe, the better, otherwise I'll have to wait and give the opportunity for them to commit suicide for public safety, but in the mean time, you can keep hurting me for assisting the white police officers, or for your ethnic pleasures)

(666/1600, is our first clue that God added more detail to daniel's figures, so perhaps there is more, we need to keep watch, these are not signs from God, these are only creation based activities leading to the death's of billions .................... 12/21/2018 is still a pivitol point, since God added a deviation to observe, that is where people get the idea that "Gentile Prophecy Additions" are okay to do or provide some truth, but those are, no substitutes for the gospel's law)

(a few more dead negro or ethnic children in succession, then I can go around to more than one police department, very simple "I told the ethnic people to seek help and not take their lives, and they did exactly that" .............. the last two websites I created resulted in mass suicide, but I believe the next time if necessary, it will be continual negro and ethnic suicide)

..............

..............

"The seals will open AFTER the appearance of Antichrist and his subduing of three kings."

C8Q77

The antichrist very soon annihilates the three,
twenty-seven years his war will last.
The unbelievers are dead, captive, exiled;
with blood, human bodies, water and red hail covering the earth.

(God doesn't use Daniel's Figures to Measure; "Celestial or Cataclysm") Nostradamus is a "Gentile Prophecy Addition", no different from "William Miller, Issac Newton, Saint Malachy".  So, Nostradamus's Prophecies, essentially don't mean anything at all.  Humanity will still die both dumb and blind, but for the faithful, we will be caught up with jesus during the 153 days when God does all the work, that means we are already outside of the body.  Everything is Over and Done.

127 Year Uranus Pluto Square Expires on 12/21/2018, that is 3 Years from 5/21/2021 A.D. the end of Daniel's Weeks, which 127 years began around the Star/Comet that marked Edward Leedskalnin's Birth to MABUS the Comet.................I'm not saying that Nostradamus is false, or that the Gentile Prophecies are false, or we can't understand them....................I'm saying God does not do things that way, a "Celestial, Catalcysm" is not technially a "Sign from God", it has no priority, and its not a true marker like "Flight 370" for Daniel's Weeks. (since they have no true value, they don't happen, and are false at the end of the day).

Edited by Gibbus

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gibbus do you think anybody on this site is listening to anything you say, LOL 

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10 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

WHEN DO REVELATION’S SEALS OPEN?

( I'm submitting this article by Nelson Walters from  "the Gospel in the End Times".  It's a bit lengthy, but it's a great perspective )

When do Revelation’s Seals open? The majority of Christians believe it is during the 70th Week of Daniel, but a minority believe it happens prior to that time. Some even believe they have already been opened.

There isn’t a prophecy that gives us this information with 100% certainty, but there are several key prophecies that let us know which theory is correct with relative certainty. I believe this may be the only available published analysis of this crucial topic-when do revelation’s seals open?

Event One: Deception by False Messiahs

Bible commentators have long recognized that the events in Matt. 24:4-30 are directly parallel to the first six seals of Revelation (Rev. 6:1-17). This exact parallel is presented in the following table from the book Revelation Deciphered:

Sign Pattern of Seven Events Matt. 24 Rev. 6
 Event One Deception by False Messiahs vv. 4–5, 23–26 vv. 1–2
 Event Two War, Bloodshed, and Chaos vv. 6–7 vv. 3–4
 Event Three Famine and Economic Collapse v. 7 vv. 5–6
 Event Four Abomination and Death v. 9, 15–21 vv. 7–8
 Event Five Martyrdom and Apostasy vv. 9–14 vv. 9–11
 Event Six Celestial Earthly Disturbance v. 29 vv. 12–17

The first of these events is Deception by False Messiahs. This event is summarized by the two parallel passages:

See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not go after them. (Luke 21:8)

Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, “Come.” I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer. (Rev. 6:1-2)

From the table, we can assume these passages are discussing the same spiritual deception that is initiated with the opening of the first seal.

However, in English, the first seal (in Revelation) doesn’t appear to be a spiritual deception at all. One reason is there is a misconception about the translated words “conquering and to conquer.” The poor English translation leads one to imagine military action, but the actual Greek word that “conquering and to conquer” is based on is NIKAO which means to overcome as in “overcome evil with good,” or “I have overcome the world.” In the New Testament it always refers to a spiritual overcoming not a military one. Proper translation changes everything.

The one who rides the white horse is attempting to overcome partly by “looking like Jesus.” That is why in Luke, Jesus says directly that this deceiver claims “I am He.” In Revelation, symbols are used to convey this thought. Both Jesus and this rider ride white horses (Jesus in Rev. 19:11). Both wear crowns, but Jesus’s crown is a kingly crown, this one is a victors crown. And, as we see, both are overcomers; one for good and one for evil. Who is it who attempts to look like Jesus and spiritually deceive his followers? The Antichrist and False Prophet, of course.

That leaves the symbol of the “bow.” Many have theorized what this bow without arrows is all about.  Some have claimed it might be missiles without warheads as in an illusion to Saddam Hussein-in other words symbolizing weapons that aren’t there. Most, however, claim it is an illusion to a false peace treaty.

This later theory can actually be substantiated biblically. As we perform exegisis on a biblical symbol, the first use of that symbol in the bible is what the symbol means from that point on. This is called the law of primacy. The first use of “bow” is shocking:

I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth. (Gen. 9:13)

Genesis tells us that “bow” without arrows signifies a covenant. God’s covenant in Genesis 9:13 was a world wide peace covenant between our Lord and the inhabitants of the earth in that he would no longer flood the earth. In Rev. 6:2, the “bow” symbolizes a covenant that most likely will be the Covenant with the many- the peace treaty that initiates the 70th Week of Daniel! This is fairly direct evidence that the seals most likely opening during the 70th Week (upon the Covenant with the Many) not before.

Under the Authority of the Beasts

A related point involves the fourth seal. The final verse of that passage reads:

I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by (lit. “under the authority of”) the wild beasts of the earth. (Rev. 6:8)

If the killing is done under the authority of the beasts (False Prophet and Beast), then this must happen during the 70th Week of Daniel. This does not prove that all the seals open after the beginning of the 70th Week, but it supports it.

Thrones

In Daniel (Dan. 7:9-10), there is a passage that directly parallels Rev. 4-8, the passage where the seals are opened. Notice from the table below (also from the book Revelation Deciphered) that there are six, exact, fingerprint similarities between this short 2 verse passage in Daniel and  chapters 4-8 in Revelation. They are both showing the same events, but the Daniel passage is a highly abbreviated and compressed version of the exact same vision:

Similarity Dan. 7 Rev. 4-8
Thrones for elders Thrones were set up (v.9) 24 thrones for 24 elders (v.4:4)
Throne for God The Ancient of Days took His seat (v. 9) A throne in heaven and one sitting upon the throne (4:2)
Appearance of God Hair like wool (v.9) Body like Beryl (10:6) Hair like wool (1:14), Body like jaspar and Sardius (4:3)
Appearance of the Throne River of fire coming out before him (v. 10) Flashes of lightning from out of the throne (4:5)
Presence of angels

 

(Exact Quote)

Thousands upon thousands and myriads upon myriads (v. 10) Myriads upon myriads and thousands upon thousands (5:11)
The book(s) The books were opened (v.10) Jesus opens the scroll (6-8:1)

Prior to the passage in Dan. 7:9-10 we observe these events happening:

While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts. (Dan. 7:8)

So since Dan. 7:9-10 is the same as Rev. chapters 4-6, we can assume what happens in Dan. 7:8 is previous to the opening of the seals as well.  These events show that the 10 kings will arise and the Antichrist will subdue 3 of the kings prior to the seals. This indicates that the Antichrist is already active when the first seal is broken, supporting a timetable of all the seals being opened in the 70th Week.

Beginning of the Birth Pangs

We have already shown how the events of Matt. 24 parallel those of Rev. 6 and the seals. In Matt. 24:8, Jesus calls the first three of these events “the beginning of the birth pangs” (as opposed to severe labor pains.) So when do the severe labor pains begin? Jesus was referencing Isaiah:

Therefore all hands will fall limp, and every man’s heart will melt. They will be terrified, pains and anguish will take hold of themThey will writhe like a woman in labor, They will look at one another in astonishment, their faces aflame. Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, to make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it.  For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises and the moon will not shed its light. (Isa. 13:7-10)

Isaiah mentions that the severe labor pains happen in the proximity of the Day of the Lord-notice reference to the Celestial Earthly Distrubance (stars falling, sun and moon darkened) which is the same as Rev. 6:12-17. I contend that the severe labor begins on the Day of the Lord. Notice what the Bible says about when hearts will melt:

The Lord is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt (Isa. 19:1)

As for you, son of man, groan with breaking heart and bitter grief, groan in their sight.  And when they say to you, ‘Why do you groan?’ you shall say, ‘Because of the news that is coming; and every heart will melt, all hands will be feeble, every spirit will faint and all knees will be weak as water. Behold, it comes and it will happen,’ declares the Lord God. . . . A sword, a sword sharpened and also polished! Sharpened to make a slaughter, Polished to flash like lightning!” (Ezek. 21:6-10)

God says that hearts melt when he comes on the clouds and dispenses justice with his sword on the Day of the Lord.

So we have established that the severe labor pains are the Wrath of God that will occur after the Celestial Earthly Disturbance. When do the “Beginning of the Birth Pangs” happen then? Pre-labor pains begin only a short time prior to the labor. So the Beginning of the Birth Pangs must be close to the Day of the Lord which is near the end of the 70th Week. It only makes sense then that the seals open during this “Shabua” (the 70th Week) not prior to it.

Zechariah’s Horses

After Jesus breaks each seal in Revelation, a colored horse comes forth onto the earth. These horses are White, Red, Black, and Green. We are first introduced to these horses in Zech. 6. The first three are identical in color to the Revelation horses. In Zechariah, the last horse is listed as “speckled” which isn’t a color but rather a pattern. Although we aren’t told it’s Green in Zechariah, that isn’t precluded because Zechariah only describes this horse by its pattern not color.

Zechariah tells us the exact timing of the release of the horses:

Now I lifted up my eyes again and looked, and behold, four chariots were coming forth from between the two mountains; and the mountains were bronze mountains. (Zech. 6:1)

The horses (chariots are listed as well in Zechariah) go forth between two mountains of bronze. Bronze is a reference to Daniel’s statue of the four metals (Dan. 2) and refers to the Hellenistic Empire (Greece). Mountain is a symbol of Kingdom from that same Chapter in Daniel. So the horses come forth from between two future Hellenistic Kingdoms. Further in Daniel we see these Kingdoms listed.

In Dan. 8, we see their future  establishment. Yavan (the bronze kingdom) is split into four subkingdoms and the Antichrist comes out of one of these:

The shaggy goat represents the kingdom of Greece (lit. YAVAN), and the large horn that is between his eyes is the first king. The broken horn and the four horns that arose in its place represent four kingdoms which will arise from hisnation, although not with his power. (Dan. 8:21-22)

So the two mountains of bronze are two of these four kingdoms. Later we learn that two of these kingdoms become more prominent than the others. Daniel refers to them as the King of the North and King of the South.

At the end time the king of the South will collide with him, and the king of the North will storm against him. (Dan. 11:40)

In my opinion these are the two kingdoms between which the horses will ride.

If this analysis is correct, What will be the timetable? We know from Mark Davidson’s groundbreaking analysis of Dan. 8 that Iran will first invade the middle east, second Turkey will crush Iran, and finally this new Turkish empire will be split into these four Kingdoms, four kingdoms of “bronze”. It is only at this final point that Revelation’s horses can ride because that is when the “mountains of bronze” are formed.

This then gives us a rough timetable for the release of the four horses as “close” to the 70th Week, and after the Iranian invasion and after Turkey’s counterattack of Iran and after the division of Turkey into 4 sub-nations. Because none of these events have happened yet, we can surmise that none of the seals have opened yet as well. These events are all yet future.

 The Abomination of Desolation

Again, we refer back to the seminal analysis that Matt. 24 and Rev. 6 are two parallel views of the same events.  We know from Dan. 9:27 that the Abomination of Desolation mentioned in Matt. 24:15-16 takes place at the midpoint of the 70th Week of Daniel.  This event is parallel to the fourth seal of Revelation.

We know the fourth seal is the Abomination of Desolation because we see Death riding the horse and Sheol (Hades) following. These are the same two characters with whom Israel makes the Covenant with the Many (The Covenant with Death and Sheol – Isa. 28:15). Thus we see that at the breaking of this covenant, these two characters ride out to kill (at the initiation of the Great Tribulation.)

What happens during the first 3 1/2 years of the 70th Week? Is it more likely that the first three events happen prior to the 70th Week with nothing happening during the first half of the 70th Week, or is it more likely that these first three events happen during the first half, the fourth event happens at the midpoint and then the final three events (or seals) occur in the second half? Obviously it is more logical that that the first three seals are also in the 70th Week of Daniel.

Although this isn’t a “proof,” it is a logical approach to the scripture.

When Do Revelation’s Seals Open?

There isn’t a “smoking gun” that absolutely indicates that the seals open during the 70th Week of Daniel, but there are a few things we do know:

  1. The seals will open AFTER the appearance of Antichrist and his subduing of three kings.
  2. The seals will open AFTER the coming of the King of the North and the King of the South and their respective empires.
  3. The seals will open AFTER Iran invades the Middle East, Turkey crushes Iran, and after Turkey is divided into four separate countries.
  4. The seals will open in near proximity to the Day of the Lord and the Abomination of Desolation
  5. Based on Rev. 6;2 (“he had a bow”), it is extremely likely the first seal opens when the Covenant with the Many is signed.

So although the evidence isn’t 100%, the overwhelming suggestion of all these passages is that the seals begin to open at the inception of the 70th Week. But we can say with relative certainty that none of the seals have opened yet.

Much of this post is supposition and human reasoning. I noticed that this writer made no effort to look at the context of the first seal. 

Readers, always remember, anyone can make the bible say almost anything if they are willing to pull a verse out of its context. 

What IS the context of the first seal? It is Rev. 4 & 5 - the vision of the throne room. And in this throne room vision we find the true TIMING of the first 5 seals. Don't take my word for it, LOOK and READ! Notice that in chapter 4, Jesus was NOT THERE in the throne room. Notice that in that first search Jesus watched for one worthy to open the seals, NO MAN was found - that search ended in failure. Then notice that the Holy Spirit was THERE in the throne room, and remember that Jesus said He would send Hom down as soon as He ascended. 

Then notice in chapter 5, TIME HAS PASSED and suddenly someone WAS found: Jesus was found. WHY was He found this time but not before? There can be only one reason: He just rose from the dead to become the Redeemer of the world. (In chapter 4 He had not yet risen from the dead.)

Then finally John got to see that moment in time when Jesus ascended, having just told Mary Magdalene not to touch Him for He not yet ascended. And the moment Jesus appeared in the throne room, the Holy Spirit was sent down.

THIS sets the timing for the first seal. Again, don't take my word for it, go and read these two chapters again. Now, many people wish to ADD 2000 years to this story, and make it speak of a time future to us. That would be ADDING to the book, and that is forbidden! There IS no timing there added: the timing is 32 AD or thereabouts.  Therefore the idea that this first seal is to represent the Antichrist who is still in our future is totally BOGUS. This seal MUST represent something in 32 AD. 

Then we consider that John used the color white 16 other times in Revelation, and each other time to represent righteousness. It is silly to imagine the Holy Spirit would change that use to something evil one time out of 17. 

So what was righteous in 32 AD? ONLY the church! This seal is to represent the church sent out with the gospel.  

Seals 2 through 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel - but they were limited to 1/4 of the earth.

Seal 5 is the first sign of a very long wait: they are the church age martyrs and they are told they must wait for the final number or the last church age martyr. In short, they must wait for the rapture that will end the church age. The rapture then is the very next event before the 6th seal. 

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12 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

When do Revelation’s Seals open? The majority of Christians believe it is during the 70th Week of Daniel, but a minority believe it happens prior to that time. Some even believe they have already been opened.

If Jesus didnt open those Seals we wouldn't find the Book of Revelation explaining the end times happening to come, for what good are those Seals if the Lamb could not open it ? And what goodness given to us if those Seals are already opened.

War, famine, calamities, murders happen since ancient time but there will be a time incomparable which begins with the Seals opening.

Jesus gave John the Revelation so we can understand what is actually described by Jesus here :

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

 

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7 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

If Jesus didnt open those Seals we wouldn't find the Book of Revelation explaining the end times happening to come, for what good are those Seals if the Lamb could not open it ? And what goodness given to us if those Seals are already opened.

War, famine, calamities, murders happen since ancient time but there will be a time incomparable which begins with the Seals opening.

Jesus gave John the Revelation so we can understand what is actually described by Jesus here :

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

My friend, we MUST follow the scripture, not imaginations. Agreed?  Next, we CANNOT pull verses out of their context. Agreed?

What then IS the context of the first seals? It is Rev. chapters 4 & 5, the throne room vision.  If you understand this part of John's vision, you will see it portrays the throne of John's past - He is seeing into the throne room while Jesus is still under the earth, not yet risen. If you will notice, Jesus was NOT THERE in chapter 4, and the search for one worthy to open the seals ended in failure. WHY?

It is all in TIMING: Jesus had not yet risen from the dead. But in chapter 5, TIME had moved on, and Jesus DID rise from the dead, and was immediately found worthy to take the book. Then John saw Jesus suddenly appear in the throne room, where He WAS NOT a moment before. The timing then was right after Jesus told Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended. As soon as He sent Mary away, He ascended, and John got to see that moment in his vision - and at that same moment the Holy Spirit was sent down.

This is the CONTEXT Of the first seals and sets the TIMING to 32 AD. No one can find 2000 years hidden there, because it is simply not there. Therefore anyone saying that the first seal is the Antichrist is first pulling that verse out of context, and second is adding 2000 years to the book - which John says is a very bad thing to do!

Seal one is the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL. Seals 2 through 4 are Satan's attempts to stop the advance of the Gospel. They failed!

Seal 5 is for the martyrs of the church age: here is the first hint of a long wait: they are told they must wait for the very last martyr of the church age. The church has been there since the beginning - at the 5th seal. The 6th seal is future.

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14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Much of this post is supposition and human reasoning. I noticed that this writer made no effort to look at the context of the first seal. 

Readers, always remember, anyone can make the bible say almost anything if they are willing to pull a verse out of its context. 

What IS the context of the first seal? It is Rev. 4 & 5 - the vision of the throne room. And in this throne room vision we find the true TIMING of the first 5 seals. Don't take my word for it, LOOK and READ! Notice that in chapter 4, Jesus was NOT THERE in the throne room. Notice that in that first search Jesus watched for one worthy to open the seals, NO MAN was found - that search ended in failure. Then notice that the Holy Spirit was THERE in the throne room, and remember that Jesus said He would send Hom down as soon as He ascended. 

Then notice in chapter 5, TIME HAS PASSED and suddenly someone WAS found: Jesus was found. WHY was He found this time but not before? There can be only one reason: He just rose from the dead to become the Redeemer of the world. (In chapter 4 He had not yet risen from the dead.)

Then finally John got to see that moment in time when Jesus ascended, having just told Mary Magdalene not to touch Him for He not yet ascended. And the moment Jesus appeared in the throne room, the Holy Spirit was sent down.

THIS sets the timing for the first seal. Again, don't take my word for it, go and read these two chapters again. Now, many people wish to ADD 2000 years to this story, and make it speak of a time future to us. That would be ADDING to the book, and that is forbidden! There IS no timing there added: the timing is 32 AD or thereabouts.  Therefore the idea that this first seal is to represent the Antichrist who is still in our future is totally BOGUS. This seal MUST represent something in 32 AD. 

Then we consider that John used the color white 16 other times in Revelation, and each other time to represent righteousness. It is silly to imagine the Holy Spirit would change that use to something evil one time out of 17. 

So what was righteous in 32 AD? ONLY the church! This seal is to represent the church sent out with the gospel.  

Seals 2 through 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel - but they were limited to 1/4 of the earth.

Seal 5 is the first sign of a very long wait: they are the church age martyrs and they are told they must wait for the final number or the last church age martyr. In short, they must wait for the rapture that will end the church age. The rapture then is the very next event before the 6th seal. 

iamlamad....

You said " anyone can make the bible say almost anything if they are willing to pull a verse out of its context. "

You've spoken the truth there my friend!

You said "Notice that in chapter 4, Jesus was NOT THERE in the throne room. Notice that in that first search Jesus watched for one worthy to open the seals, NO MAN was found - that search ended in failure."

Well, you got me on this one. ....."Jesus was not there....but Jesus watched the search"

How can you say that Jesus was not in the throne room in chapter 4?

Who was on the throne in verse 8?...."saying Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was and is and is to come"

Who did the elders worship in verse 11?...."for thou has created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created"

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

iamlamad....

You said " anyone can make the bible say almost anything if they are willing to pull a verse out of its context. "

You've spoken the truth there my friend!

You said "Notice that in chapter 4, Jesus was NOT THERE in the throne room. Notice that in that first search Jesus watched for one worthy to open the seals, NO MAN was found - that search ended in failure."

Well, you got me on this one. ....."Jesus was not there....but Jesus watched the search"

How can you say that Jesus was not in the throne room in chapter 4?

Who was on the throne in verse 8?...."saying Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was and is and is to come"

Who did the elders worship in verse 11?...."for thou has created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created"

Notice where Stephen SAW Him:

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
 
Notice where this verse places Him:
 
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
 
Now look what John  saw:
 
Rev. 4:

And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

And round about the throne were four and twenty seats:

How about that! NO JESUS standing or seated at the Father's right hand! He is simply NOT THERE.  The One seated is of course, our Father God. He is ALWAYS seen seated on the throne. 

Jesus did not "watch the search" per se, but Jesus was creating this vision!  So I guess He may or may not have watched. John does not tell us. 

It was the four Beasts that cried Holy Holy Holy. The elders were worshiping the One on the throne, Father God. 

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18 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Notice where Stephen SAW Him:

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
 
Notice where this verse places Him:
 
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
 
Now look what John  saw:
 
Rev. 4:

And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

And round about the throne were four and twenty seats:

How about that! NO JESUS standing or seated at the Father's right hand! He is simply NOT THERE.  The One seated is of course, our Father God. He is ALWAYS seen seated on the throne. 

Jesus did not "watch the search" per se, but Jesus was creating this vision!  So I guess He may or may not have watched. John does not tell us. 

It was the four Beasts that cried Holy Holy Holy. The elders were worshiping the One on the throne, Father God. 

iamalmad....

You said...."Jesus did not "watch the search" per se, but Jesus was creating this vision!  So I guess He may or may not have watched. John does not tell us. ."

So, you should be careful how you word things. To a new believer, they might take this as fact, wherein it's only supposition, or your own thoughts.

You said......"It was the four Beasts that cried Holy Holy Holy. The elders were worshiping the One on the throne, Father God. "

...."saying Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was and is and is to come".......WHO is to come?....Rev 22:20... "Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."

...."for thou has created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created".....WHO is the Creator?.....             John 1:3...."All things were created by Him......."......Jesus is the Creator

 

 

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