When do Revelations seals open

[Heb 13:8]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I have my own stellarium.  I know what Virgo looked like in 2 BC when Christ was born. 

The truth is, Rev, 12:1  does not mention any planets: ONLY Virgo, clothed in the sun, moon at her feet, and a crown of 12 stars. 

You should know, if you don't, that the 12 stars are stars, not planets, and all have names and they are always seen with Virgo. 

The 12 stars:  They are: (1) Pi, (2) Nu, (3) Beta, (4) Sigma, (5) Chi, (6) Iota - these six stars form the southern hemisphere around the head of Virgo. Then there are (7) Theta, (8) Star 60, (9) Delta, (10) Star 93, (11) Beta, (12) Omicron - these last six form the northern hemisphere around the head of Virgo. None of these are a part of Leo, as far as I know. They make an almost perfect circle near Virgo's head.

Now, with that being said, what was seen on that date you mentioned was extremely unusual with three planets all in a row plus Regulus in that row, plus Jupiter in the center of Virgo. 

We can find Virgo "clothed with the Sun" and the moon at her feet almost every September. However, some years, when the sun is at her shoulder, the moon is not quite at her feet. We also note that every 11 or 12 years. But the other planets? That part is more unusual! 

However, nothing happened on that date and todate nothing has happened that Virgo might have been a sign for - except  that we are close to the end.  Please keep in mind, this "sign" should be at the midpoint of the week, but the entire week is still in our future - so for your theory to work, that date in 2017 should have been in the middle of the 70th week.  NOW we have a problem! 

Before the week can begin, Jesus must come, the rapture take place, then the 6th seal be opened, and finally the 7th seal to start the week. It seems that sign in the sky was a few years off!

No, that alignment in Rev 12:1-5 has taken place only once, on 9/23/17. The Great Sign includes both Virgo and also Leo. Planets are also stars, why do you think they aligned perfectly under the constellation Leo. We're not discussing hemispheres, we're discussing constellations Iam. Leo only has 9 stars if you count their end points, so the three other planets make the sign complete. Rev 12:1-5 is specifically describing the constellations Virgo and Leo, since Virgo is the virgin woman in labor inside the Great Sign.

We can find Virgo "clothed with the Sun" and the moon at her feet almost every September, which is actually describing the Feast of Trumpets in Rev 12:1 every year. The Jews celebrated the FOT on 9/10/18 this year not knowing it actually lands on 10/10/18.

No, Rev chapter 12 is describing the entirety of the 70th week, and Rev 12:5 harpazo comes prior to Satan falling to earth in Rev 12:9. The Rev 12:1-5 sign that landed on 9/23/17 is just that Iam, it was a sign pointing to future events, mainly the 70th week of Daniel. The "sign" is not the action, it's only a warning of future judgment, similar to the blood moon tetrads in 2014-15 and the total solar eclipses in 2017 and 2024. God is giving us celestial warnings, but nobody is listening. People still think the Rev 12 sign took place 2000 yr ago... ?

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=dg65W6HPDe6e_Qbg5KyoAQ&q=the+four+blood+moons&btnK=Google+Search&oq=the+four&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.35i39j0j0i20i264l2j0l3j0i131j0l2.2104.3342..4541...0.0..0.110.671.8j1......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i67j0i131i67j0i131i20i264.d0OQPE0T80g

https://www.google.com/search?ei=ew65W-76As7M_AasurUQ&q=total+solar+eclipse+2017&oq=tota&gs_l=psy-ab.3.1.35i39l2j0i67j0i131j0i67l2j0j0i67l2j0i20i264.8869.9389..11197...0.0..1.168.380.3j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i131i67.Dvpw9rg1IwU

https://www.google.com/search?ei=hw65W5OjBOyN_Qb9joeIDg&q=revelation+12+sign&oq=rev&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.35i39l2j0i67l5j0i20i264j0l2.8068.8593..10691...0.0..0.80.213.3......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i131j0i131i67.PvUvcDN6BxU

https://www.google.com/search?ei=kg65W_aAJu6zggevgpGYCg&q=total+solar+eclipse+2024&oq=tota&gs_l=psy-ab.3.1.35i39l2j0i20i263i264j0i67l2j0i131j0i67l2j0j0i67.8566.9250..10595...0.0..0.82.279.4......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.983GSNwGK40

God bless.

[Heb 13:8]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It does not compute! It was the WOMAN that conceived the child Jesus. A SON cannot conceived a man child. You are REALLY stretching!

Why not just take Jesus word for it: it was Him - Jesus - who CHOSE to show John what the Dragon did, when Jesus was a child. After all, this chapter is about the Dragon, not about the church! So you entire context is wrong. Count how many times the Dragon is mentioned, including the pronouns. 

The "dragon" is just another word for Satan, the devil. It was SATAN who put it in the mind of King Herod to murder all the children under two years old. It will be Satan behind the Beast and False Prophet to create an image and force people to worship it.

No, the Holy Spirit conceived Jesus, read Matt 1:18-20. Conception always comes first, then birth 9 months later. Metaphorically, it is the same with the church. Instead of 9 months until the birth of the church it's 2000 years later. The birth is the resurrection and rapture. There's actually three stages to the body of Christ...

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception in the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/224783-three-stages-to-the-body-of-christ/

The word "harpazo" is only in reference to the church in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5. The Dragon is mentioned multiple times in Rev 12, 13, 17 because that is when the antichrist system (nations and kingdoms) reign inside the 70th week (666), including Dan 7, 11. The Dragon in Rev 12:3-4 is a future character that takes places inside end times events. The "seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads" has no application to Herod. You're living in the past Iam.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, the Holy Spirit conceived Jesus, read Matt 1:18-20. Conception always comes first, then birth 9 months later. Metaphorically, it is the same with the church. Instead of 9 months until the birth of the church it's 2000 years later. The birth is the resurrection and rapture. There's actually three stages to the body of Christ...

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception in the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/224783-three-stages-to-the-body-of-christ/

The word "harpazo" is only in reference to the church in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5. The Dragon is mentioned multiple times in Rev 12, 13, 17 because that is when the antichrist system (nations and kingdoms) reign inside the 70th week (666), including Dan 7, 11. The Dragon in Rev 12:3-4 is a future character that takes places inside end times events. The "seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads" has no application to Herod. You're living in the past Iam.

The Holy Spirit used MARY to create the body for Jesus. Without an egg, NO conception.  Why do you think God created the sign of VIRGO in the sky? These five verses are about VIRGO the VIRGIN, SHE conceived and brought forth a man-child. It is not about the church. 

Instead of 9 months until the birth of the church it's 2000 years later.  Except this is about the Dragon, the woman (the virgin from Israel) and the man child. It is not about the church. That is only your imagination. The church did not come from the Virgin, a man child did. 

Your theory simply does not fit this passage of scripture. 

Edited October 7, 2018 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, the Holy Spirit conceived Jesus, read Matt 1:18-20. Conception always comes first, then birth 9 months later. Metaphorically, it is the same with the church. Instead of 9 months until the birth of the church it's 2000 years later. The birth is the resurrection and rapture. There's actually three stages to the body of Christ...

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception in the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/224783-three-stages-to-the-body-of-christ/

The word "harpazo" is only in reference to the church in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5. The Dragon is mentioned multiple times in Rev 12, 13, 17 because that is when the antichrist system (nations and kingdoms) reign inside the 70th week (666), including Dan 7, 11. The Dragon in Rev 12:3-4 is a future character that takes places inside end times events. The "seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads" has no application to Herod. You're living in the past Iam.

The Dragon is seen with seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns simply because it has been the Dragon behind the scenes in every empire that controlled Israel - and it will be so with the Beast. The Beast will get his power from the Dragon. He is mentioned 32 times in this chapter because this chapter is all about God introducing John to the dragon: period and end of story. In this introduction, God wanted to show John what the dragon would be doing in the last half of the week. (Chapter 12 is a midpoint chapter.) The dragon in 12:3-4 is the same devil in every verses of mention in chapter 12: 32 times mentioned. It is all about the devil.  However, in the first five verses, it is about how the devil tried to murder Jesus as a child.  This passage, verses 1-5 IS about the past: that is why I am in the past: I know the intent of the Author.  He told me. 

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, that alignment in Rev 12:1-5 has taken place only once, on 9/23/17. The Great Sign includes both Virgo and also Leo. Planets are also stars, why do you think they aligned perfectly under the constellation Leo. We're not discussing hemispheres, we're discussing constellations Iam. Leo only has 9 stars if you count their end points, so the three other planets make the sign complete. Rev 12:1-5 is specifically describing the constellations Virgo and Leo, since Virgo is the virgin woman in labor inside the Great Sign.

We can find Virgo "clothed with the Sun" and the moon at her feet almost every September, which is actually describing the Feast of Trumpets in Rev 12:1 every year. The Jews celebrated the FOT on 9/10/18 this year not knowing it actually lands on 10/10/18.

No, Rev chapter 12 is describing the entirety of the 70th week, and Rev 12:5 harpazo comes prior to Satan falling to earth in Rev 12:9. The Rev 12:1-5 sign that landed on 9/23/17 is just that Iam, it was a sign pointing to future events, mainly the 70th week of Daniel. The "sign" is not the action, it's only a warning of future judgment, similar to the blood moon tetrads in 2014-15 and the total solar eclipses in 2017 and 2024. God is giving us celestial warnings, but nobody is listening. People still think the Rev 12 sign took place 2000 yr ago... ?

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=dg65W6HPDe6e_Qbg5KyoAQ&q=the+four+blood+moons&btnK=Google+Search&oq=the+four&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.35i39j0j0i20i264l2j0l3j0i131j0l2.2104.3342..4541...0.0..0.110.671.8j1......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i67j0i131i67j0i131i20i264.d0OQPE0T80g

https://www.google.com/search?ei=ew65W-76As7M_AasurUQ&q=total+solar+eclipse+2017&oq=tota&gs_l=psy-ab.3.1.35i39l2j0i67j0i131j0i67l2j0j0i67l2j0i20i264.8869.9389..11197...0.0..1.168.380.3j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i131i67.Dvpw9rg1IwU

https://www.google.com/search?ei=hw65W5OjBOyN_Qb9joeIDg&q=revelation+12+sign&oq=rev&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.35i39l2j0i67l5j0i20i264j0l2.8068.8593..10691...0.0..0.80.213.3......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i131j0i131i67.PvUvcDN6BxU

https://www.google.com/search?ei=kg65W_aAJu6zggevgpGYCg&q=total+solar+eclipse+2024&oq=tota&gs_l=psy-ab.3.1.35i39l2j0i20i263i264j0i67l2j0i131j0i67l2j0j0i67.8566.9250..10595...0.0..0.82.279.4......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.983GSNwGK40

God bless.

You know that planets are not stars. You are TOTALLY mistaken! Go back and look a a picture of Virgo: she has a ring (circle) of 12 STARs. She does not need extra planets to make up her crown. 

I'm done here. You are just too far out in left field. This is just basic stuff you are missing. Look at the photo. 

NONE of these stars are in the Constellation of LEO.  She does not need planets to make up her crown: GOD provided 12 stars for that purpose.

Edited October 7, 2018 by iamlamad

[Heb 13:8]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The Holy Spirit used MARY to create the body for Jesus. Without an egg, NO conception.  Why do you think God created the sign of VIRGO in the sky? These five verses are about VIRGO the VIRGIN, SHE conceived and brought forth a man-child. It is not about the church. 

Instead of 9 months until the birth of the church it's 2000 years later.  Except this is about the Dragon, the woman (the virgin from Israel) and the man child. It is not about the church. That is only your imagination. The church did not come from the Virgin, a man child did. 

Your theory simply does not fit this passage of scripture. 

Yes, the Holy Spirit used Mary to create the body of Jesus, it's called conception. Just like the church was conceived through the Holy Spirit at Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4. God is using Virgo as one of His many chess pieces in His end times fulfillment. Since the church was conceived at Pentecost 2000 years ago, then there would have to be a birth right? Well, the birth is rapture and resurrection.

The church did come from the virgin Iam. Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are not corrupted with sin, and the church was conceived through the Holy Spirit. And the reason the church was conceived was because of the death, burial and resurrection. God bless.

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The Dragon is seen with seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns simply because it has been the Dragon behind the scenes in every empire that controlled Israel - and it will be so with the Beast. The Beast will get his power from the Dragon. He is mentioned 32 times in this chapter because this chapter is all about God introducing John to the dragon: period and end of story. In this introduction, God wanted to show John what the dragon would be doing in the last half of the week. (Chapter 12 is a midpoint chapter.) The dragon in 12:3-4 is the same devil in every verses of mention in chapter 12: 32 times mentioned. It is all about the devil.  However, in the first five verses, it is about how the devil tried to murder Jesus as a child.  This passage, verses 1-5 IS about the past: that is why I am in the past: I know the intent of the Author.  He told me. 

Iam, listen to what you're saying. You're saying that Rev 12:1-2 and Rev 12:5 occurred 2000 years ago, but Rev 12:3-4 has not happened yet. I thought you said the dragon is Herod, now you say the dragon takes place in the last half of the week?? It sounds like your confusing yourself buddy.

No, chapter 12 is not a midpoint chapter. The books of Revelation are not all chronological, they are layered. Rev chapter 12 is describing the entirety of the 70th week which hasn't happened yet. God bless.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Heb 13:8

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You know that planets are not stars. You are TOTALLY mistaken! Go back and look a a picture of Virgo: she has a ring (circle) of 12 STARs. She does not need extra planets to make up her crown. 

I'm done here. You are just too far out in left field. This is just basic stuff you are missing. Look at the photo. 

NONE of these stars are in the Constellation of LEO.  She does not need planets to make up her crown: GOD provided 12 stars for that purpose.

Rev 12:1 says the crown of twelve stars are on HER HEAD, not part of her body, lol.

Ok, so if God didn't fulfill Rev 12:1-5 by using the three other planets in Leo then in Iam's mind how does Rev 12:1-5 great sign get fulfilled if not through Virgo and Leo???????? This sign takes place in the sun, moon and stars. So how many constellation Virgo's are out there in the hemisphere's?? You certainly won't see the 12 stars in Leo in Stellarium when Jesus was born. People who deny 9/23/17 are stumbling in unbelief, and that is not a good place to be. God bless.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Heb 13:8

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Rev 12:1 says the crown of twelve stars are on HER HEAD, not part of her body, lol.

Ok, so if God didn't fulfill Rev 12:1-5 by using the three other planets in Leo then in Iam's mind how does Rev 12:1-5 great sign get fulfilled if not through Virgo and Leo???????? This sign takes place in the sun, moon and stars. So how many constellation Virgo's are out there in the hemisphere's?? You certainly won't see the 12 stars in Leo in Stellarium when Jesus was born. People who deny 9/23/17 are stumbling in unbelief, and that is not a good place to be. God bless.

Preconceptions die very hard, if ever. I know this.   In the photo, the crown is above her head, exactly where it should be.

Look at the verse:

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

First mistake: you are not recognizing this as a parenthesis and not in any way related to Daniel's 70th week. It was Jesus CHOOSING (He has that right: He is GOD!) to show John what the Dragon DID when He was a young child. That picture was fullfilled in 2 BC, some many years before John saw it in the vision.

1. It is Virgo, but not an every day Virgo. 

2. She must be "clothed with the Sun." 

3. The moon must be at her feet.  

4. She must have 12 stars in her crown - which she ALWAYS has.

 

At 8/31/-2 at midnight  the moon is at her knees. On 9/1/-2 the moon is under her feet. The sun as at her shoulder clothing her with light. If you insist in adding planets to this, you are adding to the book of Revelation and that is a NO NO! You cannot add or take away. 

Just so you know, in 3BC when the moon is at her feet, the sun is at her wrist. In 4 BC, the sun is above her knee. In 5 BC, the sun is at her upper arm. In 6 BC the sun is back at her wrist. In 1 BC the sun is at her hip. In 1 AD the sun is at her elbow.  It seems 2 BC is the best fit.

What am I saying? John gives us a PERFECT fit in the year 2 BC.  I suspect then that Jesus was born in 2 BC. 

As for what we saw in 2017, I will agree it was a very unusual sign. But for your side of this discussion, it was not at the right time: the 70th week has yet to start, much less 2017 be at the midpoint.

Where do you find anything in Scripture about Leo the Lion or planets involved in Virgo?  We must use scripture, not imagination. 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Yes, the Holy Spirit used Mary to create the body of Jesus, it's called conception. Just like the church was conceived through the Holy Spirit at Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4. God is using Virgo as one of His many chess pieces in His end times fulfillment. Since the church was conceived at Pentecost 2000 years ago, then there would have to be a birth right? Well, the birth is rapture and resurrection.

The church did come from the virgin Iam. Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are not corrupted with sin, and the church was conceived through the Holy Spirit. And the reason the church was conceived was because of the death, burial and resurrection. God bless.

Your theory of conception and birth of the church is imagination. There is no verse stating the "birth" of the church. 

I have a novel idea: try following these 5 verses without any preconceptions?

Remember, the Dragon is mentioned in verses 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15. That is almost every verse in the chapter. Take God's word for it, this chapter is about the Dragon, not about the church.

1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red 1dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon 2his heads.

4And 3his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the 4dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the 5dragon; and the 6dragon fought and 7his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was 8their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great 9dragon was cast out, that old 10serpent, called the 11Devil, and 12Satan, which13 deceiveth the whole world: 14he was cast out into the earth, and 15his angels were cast out with 16him.

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the 17accuser of our brethren is cast down, which 18accused them before our God day and night.

11And they overcame 19him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the 20devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because 21he knoweth that 22he hath but a short time.

13And when the 23dragon saw that 24he was cast unto the earth, 25he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the 26serpent.

15And the 27serpent cast out of his28 mouth water as a flood after the woman, that 29he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the 30dragon cast out of his 31mouth.

17And the 32dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by iamlamad