Jump to content
IGNORED

Can You Lose Salvation? (Once Saved, Always Saved?)


angels4u

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  56
  • Topic Count:  1,664
  • Topics Per Day:  0.20
  • Content Count:  19,763
  • Content Per Day:  2.39
  • Reputation:   12,160
  • Days Won:  28
  • Joined:  08/22/2001
  • Status:  Offline

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  18
  • Topic Count:  200
  • Topics Per Day:  0.05
  • Content Count:  2,795
  • Content Per Day:  0.65
  • Reputation:   1,502
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  06/25/2012
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  07/26/1952

I was totally agreeing with this guy until minute 17. That was when he said all we have to do is to believe in Christ. But we have to do a little more than that, we have to obey God.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  32
  • Topic Count:  471
  • Topics Per Day:  0.17
  • Content Count:  6,541
  • Content Per Day:  2.30
  • Reputation:   7,619
  • Days Won:  9
  • Joined:  06/12/2016
  • Status:  Offline

         You cannot earn salvation. It's God's free gift. When you turn to Christ and put your trust in him. You are saved. Then you become born again. God frees us from sin. We are not slaves of sin any longer. We are slaves of righteousness because we are in christ. So we can bear fruit. But once we are bon of God. There no way we become unborn. Your a child of God. A child of God does not pratice unrighteousness.  It's inpossible for a child of God to turn away and hate God. We can fall to sin in our walk. But we are still in christ. He will repove us if we don't confess sin and turn from it. God will finish the work he began in us.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Junior Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  3
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  124
  • Content Per Day:  0.06
  • Reputation:   153
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/11/2018
  • Status:  Offline

57 minutes ago, JTC said:

I was totally agreeing with this guy until minute 17. That was when he said all we have to do is to believe in Christ. But we have to do a little more than that, we have to obey God.

Very good point! There is a false teaching in Christendom which many people espouse to: which is that once we are saved, we can sin all that we want because our sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ now and forever. This is a misapplication of the biblical doctrine of Salvation by Grace through Faith. And as you rightly pointed out . . . even the demons "believe" (James 2:19) -- but they even go a step further; which is they "tremble" at the very fact that there is but One God. Those who abuse the doctrine of "Sola Fide" are in fact teaching a "license" for immorality; or what the bible refers to as turning the Grace of our God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4) -- and there is no "fear of the LORD" before their eyes (Gen. 20:11; Jer. 2:19; 5:24; 44:10; Isa. 57:11; Ps. 36:1; Prov. 1:29; Eccl. 8:13; Mal. 3:5; Lk. 23:40; Rom. 3:18).

The Bible says that once we put our TRUST and "saving faith" in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross for our sins; we are a new creature in Christ, and our old things are passed away (cf. Jn. 3:6; Ezek. 11:19; Rom. 6:6; 13:14; 2 Cor. 3:18; 4:16; 5:17; Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10; 1 Jn. 3:9; 5:4; et al.). Furthermore, we are "born-again"; so if we are still continually living life the same as what it was before we were "saved"; then this an indication that we may have never been saved to begin with (cf. 1 Jn. 2:19. Genuine conversion results in a new way of living; i.e., living for Christ and putting others before ourselves, and not so much as living for our own gratifications. We are being "conformed" to the image of Christ daily (Rom. 6:3-10; 8:29; Eph. 4:17; Col. 3:7-8; 1 Pet. 1:14). Jesus also said that our Love for Him is genuine if we "keep His commandments" -- and we do so in order to please Him (cf. Prov. 16:7; Jn. 14:21; Rom. 8:8; 13:14; 1 Thess. 2:4; Heb. 11:6; 1 Jn. 3:22, etc.). We don't keep the commandments of God to earn our Salvation; but rather we keep them because we are regenerated, love the LORD, and desire to please Him (cf. 1 Pet. 1:3; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:13; Tit. 3:5; Jas. 1:18).

In Christ, *Pumpkin*

  • Thumbs Up 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  18
  • Topic Count:  200
  • Topics Per Day:  0.05
  • Content Count:  2,795
  • Content Per Day:  0.65
  • Reputation:   1,502
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  06/25/2012
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  07/26/1952

17 hours ago, *Pumpkin* said:

Very good point!

I agree with what you said here. I just wanted to tell you that.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  3
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  54
  • Content Per Day:  0.03
  • Reputation:   34
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  11/01/2018
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  04/17/1958

If you don't mind me giving my take on the subject, why not use a little holy logic. In other words, take the Savior at His word.

My first reference is in John 10:26, where Jesus is being very plain spoken about those who belongs to Him. John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Do you see the word never in verse 27? The Lord said; “and they shall never perish“. The word never comes from  the Greek words “ou me”, “oo may”; a double neg. strengthening the denial; not at all:–any more, at all, by any (no) means, neither, never, no (at all), in no case (wise), nor ever, not (at all, in any wise). In other words, not ever going to perish in hell. Very strong meaning there and the Savior intended it to be that way so there’s no question about it.

The second thing I want you to note is what follows this statement: “neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand“. The word “pluck” that also comes from the Greek, is harpazo and means: har-pad’-zo; to seize (in various applications):–catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force). Are you strong enough to take someone out of the Lord’s hand? Well Jesus even went further on to say that not only are the redeemed in His hand but also in the Lord God’s hand. Then He made even the further interjection in verse 30 that “I and my Father are one“. If you think that you can over power the Lord Jesus Christ and remove His redeemed from His hand, think again. He is God! Neither can you pluck yourself from His hand.

I just showed you where Jesus said a very plain statement about salvation. Then there are those that would say that Jesus really didn’t mean this and that some previously saved sheep will jump out of the Lords hand. Well, that can’t be. Why? Well look at the following scripture verses from Matthew that speak of the Great White Throne judgment. Some say that this is where even the once saved who lost their salvation will be judged. That’s impossible however. This is the judgement of all the lost who never accepted Jesus as their savior. Absolutely none . Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice the Savior said “I never knew you” in verse 23. If these folks had been saved at one time, the Lord couldn’t say I never knew you. That would be lying and we know the Savior can’t lie because in John 10:27 he says "I know them".

Get my meaning?

Edited by S.C.1
  • Thumbs Up 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  56
  • Topic Count:  1,664
  • Topics Per Day:  0.20
  • Content Count:  19,763
  • Content Per Day:  2.39
  • Reputation:   12,160
  • Days Won:  28
  • Joined:  08/22/2001
  • Status:  Offline

17 hours ago, *Pumpkin* said:

Very good point! There is a false teaching in Christendom which many people espouse to: which is that once we are saved, we can sin all that we want because our sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ now and forever. This is a misapplication of the biblical doctrine of Salvation by Grace through Faith. And as you rightly pointed out . . . even the demons "believe" (James 2:19) -- but they even go a step further; which is they "tremble" at the very fact that there is but One God. Those who abuse the doctrine of "Sola Fide" are in fact teaching a "license" for immorality; or what the bible refers to as turning the Grace of our God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4) -- and there is no "fear of the LORD" before their eyes (Gen. 20:11; Jer. 2:19; 5:24; 44:10; Isa. 57:11; Ps. 36:1; Prov. 1:29; Eccl. 8:13; Mal. 3:5; Lk. 23:40; Rom. 3:18).

The Bible says that once we put our TRUST and "saving faith" in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross for our sins; we are a new creature in Christ, and our old things are passed away (cf. Jn. 3:6; Ezek. 11:19; Rom. 6:6; 13:14; 2 Cor. 3:18; 4:16; 5:17; Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10; 1 Jn. 3:9; 5:4; et al.). Furthermore, we are "born-again"; so if we are still continually living life the same as what it was before we were "saved"; then this an indication that we may have never been saved to begin with (cf. 1 Jn. 2:19. Genuine conversion results in a new way of living; i.e., living for Christ and putting others before ourselves, and not so much as living for our own gratifications. We are being "conformed" to the image of Christ daily (Rom. 6:3-10; 8:29; Eph. 4:17; Col. 3:7-8; 1 Pet. 1:14). Jesus also said that our Love for Him is genuine if we "keep His commandments" -- and we do so in order to please Him (cf. Prov. 16:7; Jn. 14:21; Rom. 8:8; 13:14; 1 Thess. 2:4; Heb. 11:6; 1 Jn. 3:22, etc.). We don't keep the commandments of God to earn our Salvation; but rather we keep them because we are regenerated, love the LORD, and desire to please Him (cf. 1 Pet. 1:3; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:13; Tit. 3:5; Jas. 1:18).

In Christ, *Pumpkin*

 

Quote

There is a false teaching in Christendom which many people espouse to: which is that once we are saved, we can sin all that we want because our sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ now and forever

If you hear anybody who is saved saying that sinning all we want is ok because it is covered by Jesus blood makes me wonder if that person is really born again?

A Tree and its Fruit
…21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’Matth.7 (These people are not born again, they don't Jesus, they only know His name.)

 

How can you help God to complete your Salvation? Does God needs your help or is He might enough to keep you until the end?

 8He will sustain you to the end so that you will be blameless on the day of our LordJesus Christ. 9God, who has called you into fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.…1 Cor.1:8 ( This is written for born-again Christians.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  35
  • Topic Count:  99
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  40,770
  • Content Per Day:  7.95
  • Reputation:   21,262
  • Days Won:  76
  • Joined:  03/13/2010
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  07/27/1957

The typology of Moses is law and by the law no flesh will be justified in His sight... that's why at the end of the O.T. period of Law Christ came in the fulness of time to provide a way of salvation for all!

Gal 2:16

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
KJV


How much clearer can that be...
No matter the begin... mid... or near end you base your salvation upon your own efforts and you will not make it for it is in Christ alone through faith alone for all eternity it is set in The Covenant of His Blood...

You see in a very simple way the nudge is to rest upon your own abilities to keep the salvation and is enough, if you go that way, to know you never had it for the Scripture says

Jude 24-25

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
KJV

(we are not mentioned in the process at all)

This passage just doesn't fit in the scenario of this film for the film ever so mildly insists you must do to get (law)… The reality is spelled out in what 'IS' essence (that of The Spirit of God) 
***and the essence of saving faith has been identified and  has already received judgment from The Lord for eternity***

Luke 18:10-14

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
KJV

 
I think in Paul's Rom 7 should be enough going into Rom 8 a complete solution to what salvation looks like after receiving the new birth but even more His personal testimony near exiting this existence

2 Tim 4:7

7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:  *do not leave behind the daily reality of Rom 7 into 8 here*
KJV

reiterating Rom 7 into 8 …  sin is sin folks and James says just how so

James 2:10

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
KJV


one violation and that's it folks you are guilty of all... this is 'The Law' and anything that tries to even mildly turn you to works for reliance of salvation has bypassed the witness of God Himself in The Lord Jesus by Spirit

Rom 8:13-19

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:   *not through works of the law but of essence*

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
KJV

Essence is what the son's of God are!
Idolatry is merely looking toward the things/world we began in or the flesh we were first born in -conjoining or combining for assurance of the everlasting is not of The Essence of God...

2 Peter 3:11-14

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
KJV


for if I look to the things God is not keeping to maintain or keep the things God 'IS' keeping I am not without spot or blameless...

 

Edited by enoob57
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Junior Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  3
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  124
  • Content Per Day:  0.06
  • Reputation:   153
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/11/2018
  • Status:  Offline

2 hours ago, angels4u said:

 

If you hear anybody who is saved saying that sinning all we want is ok because it is covered by Jesus blood makes me wonder if that person is really born again?

A Tree and its Fruit
…21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’Matth.7 (These people are not born again, they don't Jesus, they only know His name.)

 

How can you help God to complete your Salvation? Does God needs your help or is He might enough to keep you until the end?

 8He will sustain you to the end so that you will be blameless on the day of our LordJesus Christ. 9God, who has called you into fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.…1 Cor.1:8 ( This is written for born-again Christians.

If you did a poll and asked any passerbys if they think that they would go to Heaven of Hell when they die, 95% or more will reply by saying that they would go to Heaven, and not Hell. When asked why? Most of them would give almost the SAME response; and that is, "I'm a pretty good person, and I've never hurt anyone; I also donated to charities, etc.". What they fail to realise is that we are saved NOT by our works, but by the Grace of God through faith. In the passage you quoted (Matt. 7:21-23) these men and women will attempt to justify THEMSELVES by saying to the LORD, "haven't we done MANY wonderful WORKS?" These nominal Christians and religious people are self-righteous and have the mentality that they are "better" than others; not knowing that ALL have sinned against God and fall short of His Glory (Rom. 2:10; 3:23). Jesus will profess to these people, that He never "knew" them. Not knew them once but later didn't -- but NEVER knew them. The Greek word for "knew" (Grk. ginosko) is in the 2nd aorist tense; which means that they never had a "saving" relationship with Him, or knew Him in an intimate manner regardless of the past or the present). This is why the bible commands every professing believer to "examine" themselves to see whether they are TRULY in the faith; or whether they are nothing more than "counterfeit" Christians (2nd Cor. 13:5). True born-again Christians don't keep the commandments or walk in obedience out of a feeling of obligation; but rather they are a "new creation" in Christ, and obey the LORD to please Him.

 In Christ, *Pumpkin*

 

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  11
  • Topic Count:  320
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  6,829
  • Content Per Day:  0.85
  • Reputation:   3,570
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  02/16/2002
  • Status:  Offline

6 hours ago, S.C.1 said:

If you don't mind me giving my take on the subject, why not use a little holy logic. In other words, take the Savior at His word.

My first reference is in John 10:26, where Jesus is being very plain spoken about those who belongs to Him. John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Do you see the word never in verse 27? The Lord said; “and they shall never perish“. The word never comes from  the Greek words “ou me”, “oo may”; a double neg. strengthening the denial; not at all:–any more, at all, by any (no) means, neither, never, no (at all), in no case (wise), nor ever, not (at all, in any wise). In other words, not ever going to perish in hell. Very strong meaning there and the Savior intended it to be that way so there’s no question about it.

The second thing I want you to note is what follows this statement: “neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand“. The word “pluck” that also comes from the Greek, is harpazo and means: har-pad’-zo; to seize (in various applications):–catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force). Are you strong enough to take someone out of the Lord’s hand? Well Jesus even went further on to say that not only are the redeemed in His hand but also in the Lord God’s hand. Then He made even the further interjection in verse 30 that “I and my Father are one“. If you think that you can over power the Lord Jesus Christ and remove His redeemed from His hand, think again. He is God! Neither can you pluck yourself from His hand.

I just showed you where Jesus said a very plain statement about salvation. Then there are those that would say that Jesus really didn’t mean this and that some previously saved sheep will jump out of the Lords hand. Well, that can’t be. Why? Well look at the following scripture verses from Matthew that speak of the Great White Throne judgment. Some say that this is where even the once saved who lost their salvation will be judged. That’s impossible however. This is the judgement of all the lost who never accepted Jesus as their savior. Absolutely none . Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice the Savior said “I never knew you” in verse 23. If these folks had been saved at one time, the Lord couldn’t say I never knew you. That would be lying and we know the Savior can’t lie because in John 10:27 he says "I know them".

Get my meaning?

Christ admitted that He lost Judas. All Judas had to do was repent, instead he committed suicide.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 

Edited by HAZARD
correct spelling error
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...