Help with Revelation 12:17

[tatwo]

13 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

That's a new one

Jesus is now God the Holy Spirit that indwells within the believer?

1 John 5:7-8KJV

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 “These three are one”…the Father in creation….the Son in redemption…the Holy Spirit in regeneration…ONE…as in 1…aka…God whom is Spirit…the Spirit of Truth no less…lives in the Son…as the complete fullness of the “Father…Word…Holy Spirit”…aka…Godhead…as “1.” The context is in heaven because the reference to deity is “Spirit”…there is no other means to exist in heaven.

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

“These three agree in one”…the Spirit (God)…Water (Word)…Blood (the life in the “flesh”)…are  definitive references to the “deity” housed within the physical “body” of the one Man…the Son of God…The Lord Yahshua Christ. The context is on the earth…as ONE…1 human being existent upon the earth.

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

The witness…testimony…of God concerning His Son…”in heaven as it is on earth”…which is greater than the testimony of men…which is that…God who is a “Spirit” dwells fully in the Son. This is what was put on glorious display in the life of the King of kings and Lord of lords…Yahshua…aka…God manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit…for a season on the earth.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

The one who believes in the Son of God…specifically according to the testimony of God Himself…which is that He…Yahshua…was the “fullness of the Godhead bodily” as one Lord…on the earth…he who believes this…on the earth…possesses that same testimony in himself…which is the Holy Spirit.

The one who does not believe…the “testimony or witness” of God Himself…from heaven (Holy Spirit)…concerning His Son…as the fullness of the godhead in bodily form…believes a lie.

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 

All of this tells us…that for those of us who believe…embrace…and live…according to the “record” as authenticated in heaven and on earth…by God Himself…we will have eternal life…this life has its source in His Son…which is the Holy Spirit of the living God…poured into Yahshua at His baptism…and testified to by His Father…which is life eternal.

Whoever does not believe “record”…does not have the Son...does not possess eternal life.

If these folks speak of Christ...it will be from a place of deception...the false religion...the woman in the wilderness who is the "mother of harlots...she is not the true bride of Christ...she knows it...but she certainly wants humanity to believe that she is.

They do not have the "Holy Spirit" which means they do not have "the eternal life" of the Son of God in them...they are lost and their testimony is evil. 

Tatwo...:)

[Vine Abider]

9 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

There are 3 personsofthe Godhead, read it again, Jesus isn't  God the Holy Spirit

1 John 5:7-8KJV

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Therefore there must be three persons of the Godhead in us, right?  That seems to be what the verses in Romans 8:9-11 are saying:

"You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you."

I've looked at these verses for decades and frankly I'm not much closer to understanding & explaining it.  And I've spent hours/days/weeks fellowshipping with others about the Triune God and guess what?  It's still an amazing, marvelous mystery. (as my dad says, "It's like trying to corner Jello!")

So what do you see in these verses?

[The Light]

On 10/9/2018 at 12:17 PM, JoeCanada said:

 

The remnant of her seed is the church is it not?.........  All born again believers?

 

 

The remnant of her seed is not the Church. The remnant of her seed is the 12 tribes across the earth. The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. There are 144,000 first fruits taken to heaven in Rev 14. When the dragon cannot get to the woman, those in the nation of Israel, he goes after those of the 12 tribes across the earth even as Hitler went after all the Jews he could get to.

Bottom line the Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part Israel will see that Jesus is the Messiah as evidenced by the 144,000 first fruits of the coming harvest that occurs at the 6th seal. Here is that harvest.

Revleation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

[farouk]

8 minutes ago, The Light said:

The remnant of her seed is not the Church. The remnant of her seed is the 12 tribes across the earth. The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. There are 144,000 first fruits taken to heaven in Rev 14. When the dragon cannot get to the woman, those in the nation of Israel, he goes after those of the 12 tribes across the earth even as Hitler went after all the Jews he could get to.

Bottom line the Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part Israel will see that Jesus is the Messiah as evidenced by the 144,000 first fruits of the coming harvest that occurs at the 6th seal. Here is that harvest.

Revleation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Indeed, I don't see how this passage can refer to the church..............

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Therefore there must be three persons of the Godhead in us, right?  That seems to be what the verses in Romans 8:9-11 are saying:

"You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you."

I've looked at these verses for decades and frankly I'm not much closer to understanding & explaining it.  And I've spent hours/days/weeks fellowshipping with others about the Triune God and guess what?  It's still an amazing, marvelous mystery. (as my dad says, "It's like trying to corner Jello!")

So what do you see in these verses?

God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit

John 14:26KJV

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

[Vine Abider]

Just now, truth7t7 said:

God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit

John 14:26KJV

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

"The Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him for He lives with you and will be in you."

And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.

John 14:17 & 1 Cor 15:45

[truth7t7]

1 minute ago, Vine Abider said:

"The Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him for He lives with you and will be in you."

And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.

John 14:17 & 1 Cor 15:45

My response was initially to Tatwo,  who previously claimed Jesus is the Holy Spirit that dwells within the believer, this doctrine is "False"

 

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

My response was initially to Tatwo,  who previously claimed Jesus is the Holy Spirit that dwells within the believer, this doctrine is "False"

 

Does Jesus live in us?  Sure. The verse in my signature shows this. This verse also comes to mind:  "When it pleased God . . . to reveal His Son in me." Gal 1:16

And this one: "God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts crying, 'Abba! Father!'" Gal 4:6

Then this verse: "Now the Lord is the Spirit." 2 Cor 3:17

So how many Spirits of God are there?

My point is when we get dogmatic and say that it's false to state "Jesus is the Holy Spirit" we get into things that are probably over our pay grade (at least mine).  Again, my experience is that we can discuss the Triune God till the cows come home and not get any closer to understanding this intimate relationship of total oneness in the Godhead. My belief is that for every verse that says they (Jesus & HS) are different, another verse can be shown that they are the same.

 

[truth7t7]

16 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

My point is when we get dogmatic and say that it's false to state "Jesus is the Holy Spirit" we get into things that are probably over our pay grade (at least mine).  Again, my experience is that we can discuss the Triune God till the cows come home and not get any closer to understanding this intimate relationship of total oneness in the Godhead. My belief is that for every verse that says they (Jesus & HS) are different, another verse can be shown that they are the same.

 

No dogmatism whatsoever, Jesus Christ "Isnt" the Holy Spirit, it's that simple

1.) God the Father

2.) God the Son

3.) God the Holy Ghost

"There Are Three"

It's biblically false to claim Jesus Christ is the Holy Ghost IMHO, and its not changing anytime soon

We Disagree

Jesus Is The Lord

John 14:26KJV

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1 John 5:7-8KJV

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by truth7t7