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JoeCanada

Help with Revelation 12:17

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On 10/10/2018 at 1:28 AM, Adstar said:

His commandment is as follows...

1 John 3: KJV

21 "Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. {22} And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. {23} And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. {24} And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."

So those in the scripture who where under the altar are those who believed on the Name of His Son Jesus Christ and loved their neighbor..

 

 

 

Those under the altar at the 5th seal are church age martyrs. Plain and simple. Stephen was one of those.

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On 10/9/2018 at 1:11 PM, Revelation Man said:

The REMNANT (Small part that's left) of her SEED (Church) means exactly what it says.  The Rapture has come to pass and from that point on all men who come unto Christ will be in the Body of Christ but as a REMNANT, but the Bride is in Heaven, thus they are the 5 Virgins left out of the Marriage, the doors were closed on them because they did not have enough OIL (Holy Spirit) in them. They thus must repent, and in all likelihood lay down their lives for Christ Jesus. Thus they are the Saints under the Alter at the 5th Seal. 

The Jews in Petra repented and are by now Messianic Jews. 

You did very well up until you mentioned the 5th seal and those under the altar. Sorry, but the 5th seal will be FINISHED at the rapture of the church, since they are church age martyrs. 

It is improper to refer something at the middle of the week back to some seal. The seals are there ONLY to protect the book. Once the seals are opened, then the book can be opened  - to reveal the 70th week of Daniel.

Edited by iamlamad

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On 10/9/2018 at 12:51 PM, WilliamL said:

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

This refers to the law of Moses, which included the 10 Commandments, but added other statutes and ordinances. Jesus' affirmed God's 10 Commandments:

Matt. 19:17 ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19  Honour thy father and [thy] mother...

But they will have the testimony of Jesus after they have seen Him coming in the clouds:

Zech 12:10 ...they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

Rom. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Joe was correct here: the "remnant of her seed" is referring to believers in Jesus Christ AT THAT TIME - not some time later. They will be all those Christians who were Christian in name only and were left behind. Certainly some of them will get very serious with God after they are left behind.  Most will be Gentile believers from the nations.

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On 10/31/2018 at 4:38 PM, iamlamad said:

Joe was correct here: the "remnant of her seed" is referring to believers in Jesus Christ AT THAT TIME - not some time later. They will be all those Christians who were Christian in name only and were left behind. Certainly some of them will get very serious with God after they are left behind.  Most will be Gentile believers from the nations.

They will be both: weak and fearful Christians, like the Israelites at Mount Sinai who "turned away" from God when he descended and called up His chosen into His Presence. The elect went up, the fearful and unbelieving did not.

AND, they will be the remnant of Israel, who came to faith only at Christ's appearance, and therefore were not ready to ascend at His Coming.

In short, they will be both Jew and Gentile believers, the earthly Church during the time of the Wrath. God will protect them in the wilderness, but purge them also, just as he did the Israelites during the Exodus.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

They will be both: weak and fearful Christians, like the Israelites at Mount Sinai who "turned away" from God when he descended and called up His chosen into His Presence. The elect went up, the fearful and unbelieving did not.

AND, they will be the remnant of Israel, who came to faith only at Christ's appearance, and therefore were not ready to ascend at His Coming.

In short, they will be both Jew and Gentile believers, the earthly Church during the time of the Wrath. God will protect them in the wilderness, but purge them also, just as he did the Israelites during the Exodus.

 

 

William, you missed an important point: this is at the  midpoint of the week, maybe only hours after the abomination. The Jews HAVE NOT SEEN Jesus yet - so they will still be in unbelief.  It will be mostly Gentile believers. 

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I haven't missed anything, I just reject your presumptions. The full 1260 days have nothing to do with the elect of the Church, only the earthly remnant.

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6 hours ago, WilliamL said:

I haven't missed anything, I just reject your presumptions. The full 1260 days have nothing to do with the elect of the Church, only the earthly remnant.

Yes, you missed it.

Rev 12:And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

In verse 6 we see the fleeing begin, proving the timing as a second or two after the abomination that will divide the week. Then verse 14 tells us it is the start of the 3 1/2 year countdown, again proving the timing here as the middle of the week. 

At this time, the middle of the week, the Antichrist Beast will be just revealed as the beast.  He will have have had time to build the image or create the mark. 

In verse 17, we learn that the Dragon, finding that God is protecting the woman who fled, turns to the "remnant of her seed." WHO would that be? Jesus was the SEED and believers are of the SEED. But this is only a remnant, because the main load went to heaven at the pretrib rapture. 

Make no mistake, this remnant love Jesus and have His testimony. They are therefore Gentile Christians.  There may  be a scattered few Jews or Hebrews, but the majority of them will still have blindness upon them at this time.

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