Woman of Revelation 12

[iamlamad]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:56 PM, R. Hartono said:

Revelation Chapter 12 is actually describing TWO EVENTS separated by a very long time interval (+/- 2000 years).

IT DESCRIBES TWO EFFORTS OF MURDER BY THE DRAGON in separated times :

The first effort was to try to kill the CHILD, not the woman and the dragon STILL HAS ITS PLACE IN HEAVEN.

Rev 12:4 ..... the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to DEVOUR HER CHILD as soon  as it was born.

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The woman in pain to deliver speaks about the Jews under the persecution of the Roman Empire from whom Jesus was born.

And the child speaks about the infant Jesus whom Herod tried to kill (which was actually the dragon's idea).

MANY PEOPLE SAY THIS SPEAKS ABOUT THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH, NO WAY THE CHURCH IS RAPTURED WHILE THE DRAGON STILL HAS ITS PLACE IN HEAVEN. ALTHOUGH ITS RIGHTS TO HEAVEN HAS BEEN CAST OUT TO THE EARTH.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to His Throne.

We can see that the child was taken to His Throne, who was this child taken to His Throne ? Jesus was seen at the right hand of God by Steven

Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God, so He was Jesus on the Throne.

While the raptured church (the great multitude) is found IN FRONT OF the Throne, not on the Throne:

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, STOOD BEFORE the throne, and BEFORE THE LAMB.

Look ! the word MANCHILD was written two times by John (verse 5 and 13), Does the church of God consist of MAN only ? No, this is not about the church.

CONCLUSION : THE CHILD WAS JESUS WHO WAS BORN DURING ROMAN PERSECUTION OF THE JEWS, THE DRAGON TRIED TO KILL HIM AS SOON AS HE WAS BORN BUT FAILED AND HE WAS RAISED FROM DEATH AND TAKEN TO HEAVEN TO GOD'S THRONE 2000 YEARS AGO.

 

THE SECOND ATTEMPT IS TO KILL THE WOMAN AND WILL HAPPEN WHEN THE DRAGON HAS BEEN CAST OUT IN THE END OF TIMES.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,....(THE DRAGON CAST OUT IN THE END OF TIMES)

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

THIS SECOND ATTEMPT TO KILL THE WOMAN WILL HAPPEN AT THE AOD WHEN ANTICHRIST ENTER THE TEMPLE OF GOD AND DECLARE HIMSELF AS GOD, AS HAS BEEN WARNED BY JESUS THAT THE JEWS MUST MAKE AN EXODUS OUT OF ISRAEL, BECAUSE THE DEVIL HATE THE JEWS SINCE THE ANCIENT TIMES AND WANTED TO KILL THEM ALL.

Matt. 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

ALL THE JEWS WILL GATHER AND CONFUSED AND SHOCKED, THEY WILL WATCH WITH FEAR AS THAT "MIGHTY MESSIAH WHO LEAD THE WORLD" DECLARES HIMSELF AS GOD, YES THEY WILL GATHER AND DECIDE TO RUN AS THEY REMEMBER THE WARNING OF PROPHET DANIEL.

WILL GOD LET THE ISRAELITES DIE ? NO GOD WILL GIVE THEM TWO WINGS OF GREAT EAGLE LIKE HE DID WHEN GOD TOOK THEM OUT OF EGYPT :

Exodus 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles’ wings, and brought you unto myself.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle

ANTICHRIST WILL SEND HIS ARMY TO CHASE AND KILL THEM LIKE PHARAOH SENT HIS ARMY TO CAPTURE THE JEWS AT THE RED SEA, BUT THE EARTH WILL HELP THE JEWS :

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

WHO ARE THE REMNANT OF HER SEED :

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD = TORAH/JUDAISM

TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST : THE NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE

So the REMNANTS are the Jews who believed in Judaism but have repented and accept Jesus Christ in other parts of the world who didnt join the EXODUS.

This could also refer the 144000 sealed Jews. The 144000 are not spiritual Jews or christians because spiritual Jews/christians dont belong to any tribe.
 

WHAT IS THE 1260 DAYS IN THE WILDERNESS SPEAKS ABOUT ?

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

HISTORY SHOWS THAT EVER SINCE THE RCC RECEIVED THE JUSTINIAN DECREE THEY HAVE RULED EUROPE for +/- 1260 YEARS LIKE KINGS AND PERSECUTE THE PEOPLE WHO REFUSED TO CONVERT TO CATHOLIC CHURCH.

THE JUSTINIAN DECREE WAS IMPLEMENTED ON YEAR 538 AD AND THE RCC REIGN WITH ABSOLUTE POWER UNTIL 1798 WHEN NAPOLEON SENT GENERAL BERTHIER WITH HIS ARMY TO DEFEAT AND ARREST POPE, THUS ENDING THE 1260 YEARS OF ABSOLUTE DICTATORSHIP. MANY JEWS WHO REFUSED TO CONVERT HAVE BEEN PERSECUTED, THEIR PROPERTY AND WEALTH CONFISCATED BY THE CHURCH.

This is the  JUSTINIAN DECREE :
TITLE 1.

CONCERNING THE MOST EXALTED TRINITY AND THE
CATHOLIC FAITH AND PROVIDING THAT NO ONE
SHALL DARE TO PUBLICLY OPPOSE THEM.

       1. The Emperors Gratian, Valentinian, and Theodosius to the people of the City of Constantinople.

  We desire that all peoples subject to Our benign Empire shall live under the same religion that the Divine Peter, the Apostle, gave to the Romans, and which the said religion declares was introduced by himself, and which it is well known that the Pontiff Damascus, and Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic sanctity, embraced; that is to say, in accordance with the rules of apostolic discipline and the evangelical doctrine, we should believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute a single Deity, endowed with equal majesty, and united in the Holy Trinity.

   (1) We order all those who follow this law to assume the name of Catholic Christians, and considering others as DEMENTED and INSANE, We order that they shall bear the infamy of HERESY; and when the Divine vengeance which they merit has been appeased, they shall afterwards be punished in accordance with Our resentment, which we have acquired from the judgment of Heaven............

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apologies_made_by_Pope_John_Paul_II

Apostle John has prophesied the long period of 1260 days of persecution of the Jews and the church, as has been honestly admitted by Pope John Paul II in the above link.

You started out SO GOOD!

[iamlamad]

22 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

I see that you do not understand the signal that was showed unto John as is written in Rev. 12.

Notice that the woman and the dragon having 7 heads and 10 horns and a TAIL were in the same heaven, in the same place. If you know not what is heaven, how can you understand these heavenly events? 

Rev.12:1 - there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Rev. 12:v.3-4- And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.   4 - And his TAIL drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

It seems it is YOU who do not understand:  Rev. 12:1 is about VIRGO the constellation. 

Rev. 12:4 is talking about when Satan was cast out of heaven originally and took 1/3 of the angels with him - before Adam was created.  OF COURSE the woman and the dragon (the devil) were in the same place: He can go from the heavens to hell - anywhere he chooses: he is currently the prince of this planet.  Where is that place the woman was at? OF COURSE it was in Bethlehem. You know that! You also know Satan used King Herod to attempt to kill Jesus.  Apparently what you don't know is that is what these 5 verse are about. 

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

The main comments I posted 23 hours ago in The two posts above which I am waiting to be published.

 

I see what you are saying; when John FIRST saw the Dragon, he was in heaven. When He was kicked  out of heaven He took 1/3 of the angels with him. But when the Dragon stood before the woman,  that was in Bethlehem where the woman was about to give birth.

Chapter 12 was God introducing John to the Dragon. He is mentioned 32 times in this chapter. It main point is what the dragon would be doing during the last half of the week. But God CHOSE to show John what the dragon did when Jesus was born. That is the first 5 verses: they were a "history lesson" for John. They are written as a parenthesis.

Since John was referencing Virgo, it is possible he was also referencing Draco the Dragon as a constellation. 

Edited June 22, 2019 by iamlamad

[R. Hartono]

On 6/21/2019 at 10:33 AM, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

 If you know not what is heaven, how can you understand these heavenly events? 

Rev.12:1 - there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Its not the heaven as you think either, There was not any real woman clothed with the sun and the moon in heaven either.

The dragon knew this Manchild was about to be delivered thats why he prepared to kill Him, so this is not about the rapture of the church because nobody knows the hour and day of the rapture.

If this Manchild speaks about the rapture of the church why would the dragon try to devour at the time of delivered/ Rapture ? Thats not possible because Jesus will send His angels to gather the saints, Mark 13:27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds,...

[R. Hartono]

10 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

 

Then in accord your REVELATION, where we read "Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and SIGNIFIED it by His angel unto His servant John", has nothing to do with Truth. It's a lie, right?

 

Its not a lie, its a revelation with symbols for what will happen in the end times.

10 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Ok, I guess you do not believe there's a red dragon, do you? Red Dragon? Even more if it has 7 heads, 10 horns and a TAIL, is that possible? What do you think?

WLC has analyze it, what would you say :

https://www.worldslastchance.com/end-time-prophecy/revelation-17-prophecy-of-the-seven-kings-8th-king-identified.html

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

In my post below I doubt you know what heven is, and I see that you do not know what is heven surely.  

Ten you run away at a tangent ands replyed saying: 

"There was not any real woman clothed with the sun and the moon in heaven either."

 

Then in accord your REVELATION, where we read "Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and SIGNIFIED it by His angel unto His servant John", has nothing to do with Truth. It's a lie, right?

But you said as follow:

"There was not any real woman clothed with the sun and the moon in heaven either."

 

Now now, if was not any real woman then the symbols are not real too.  This explains the why you have posted a cunningly devised fable in your post Posted October 10, 2018 (edited), as follow below: 

>>>Rev 12:4 ..... the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to DEVOUR HER CHILD as soon  as it was born.  2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The woman in pain to deliver speaks about the Jews under the persecution of the Roman Empire from whom Jesus was born.

And the child speaks about the infant Jesus whom Herod tried to kill (which was actually the dragon's idea).<<<

             The Book of Revelation, the last Book of Scriptures, was sealed and kept with God the Father in heaven until the return of JESUS to the heaven, everything about the life of JESUS, since His birth until His ascention, WERE written in the books of Gospel and in the letters of the Apostles of the LORD JESUS Christ,  so your REVELATION has nothing to do with the Holy Scriptures reveals, but are inventions, worse, apostasies. 

You said: "And the child speaks about the infant Jesus whom Herod tried to kill (which was actually the dragon's idea)"

No, THE INFANT IS NOT JESUS, but another Person, and HEROD never was/is not the Red Dragon of 7 heads, 10 horns and a TAIL.

Your "dragon's idea", is a fantasy, worse, apostasy, it is tares, please, let us thrown this tares to be burned with everlasting fire. Bye the way, the everlasting Spirit of God, the Word is God, is a devouring fire. You are sowing only and only confusion between us here in the forum, and elsewhere, according to the movement of the red dragon's tail.

Why is it when anyone disagrees with you - they are telling fables?  With you it is always lies or tangents.

Look, the truth of the woman is John saw VIRGO in the sky: clothed with the Sun and with the moon under her feet, and a circle of stars making up her crown. He was describing VIRGO.

However, Jesus was born and was born of a virgin.  But the woman there is NOT Mary; "woman" is to be Israel - the descendants of Jacob. The Messiah came out of Israel.

[R. Hartono]

20 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Friend, it seems and I fear it be real that you be more one among millions of stars that the Red Dragon has thrown from heaven to earth through his TAIL.

 

You always attack people personally so bad when they disagree with you, instead of discussing the content.

People come here to discuss the word of God but you come with wicked words to others instead of discussing the topic.

[other one]

I find it interesting that the sign of the woman in heaven actually was there on September 27,2017....    it has not been there since Adam and Eve were created and according to my computer sky simulator will not be there for at least another 7,000 years...

[iamlamad]

22 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Friend, it seems and I fear it be real that you be more one among millions of stars that the Red Dragon has thrown from heaven to earth through his TAIL.

And this WOMAN is not Israel, absolutely, who is of Israel in Revelation 12 is the Red Dragon, a former Cherub, the own Satan incarnated, the son of perdition, a FALSE MESSIAH of the Jews that will manifest himself very soon, the Beast which John did see coming up out of the earth having two horns like a lamb (a false lamb, a false messiah-JESUS spoke of him: John 5:v.43), and he spake as a Dragon (Rev.13:v.11).  And the false messiah will exercise all the power of the FIRST Beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST Beast, whose deadly wound will be healed. 

SO TAKE CARE, for the false messiah, the Red Dragon, a former Cherub, the own Satan incarnated, the son of perdition -John 8:v.44 and 2 Thessalonians 2:v.4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God, yeah, THIS MAN is already living in Israel, He is of the Jews, from the tribe of Dan.

Yeah, the true Messiah came of Israel it is real, but the false messiah comes also of Israel. JESUS warned:  "He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber". 

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

⁹ If any man have an ear, let him hear.  Rev.13:v.9   

As usually, you are mistaken. The first five verses of chapter 12 are about the birth of Christ the Messiah from Israel and how the dragon tried to kill him as a young child.

Next, it verse 6, it is about the "woman" or Israel, fleeing because they have just seen the abomination.  You do remember, I hope, that Jesus said those in JUDEA were to flee? Gentiles don't live there in general. It is certainly not the false messiah that is fleeing.

The chapter is about the dragon, mentioned 32 times in the chapter.

[iamlamad]

20 minutes ago, other one said:

I find it interesting that the sign of the woman in heaven actually was there on September 27,2017....    it has not been there since Adam and Eve were created and according to my computer sky simulator will not be there for at least another 7,000 years...

What was there Sept. 27 was different than what was described in Rev. 12. John made no mention of planets.