Woman of Revelation 12

[luigi]

10 minutes ago, luigi said:

 

There is only one body in Christ.

Romans 12:4  For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

⁵ So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

[dhchristian]

Just now, luigi said:

There is only one church, which is the true Israel, and represents all who believe in Christ's Way of truth, justice, and mercy towards one's neighbors.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

You are then a proponent of replacement theology, and I am a dispensationalist. The final week is a time of transition between the church age, and the millennial kingdom, hence it is the final week for ISRAEL, the nation. Read Romans 11, as this explains it fully, we are the wild olive branch grafted in, Israel the natural olive branch.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 

[dhchristian]

Just now, luigi said:

There is only one body in Christ.

Romans 12:4  For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

⁵ So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Yes, in Christ Jesus there is neither Jew nor Greek. Yet the promises of God still stand for Israel the nation as well.

[luigi]

18 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Yes, in Christ Jesus there is neither Jew nor Greek. Yet the promises of God still stand for Israel the nation as well.

Who do you think they who forsake Christ's Way in Isaiah 65:1-2, whom the Lord decides to eradicate Himself of in Isaiah 65:11-15, represent?

Isaiah 65: 1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

 

 

¹¹ But ye are they that forsake the Lord, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

¹² Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

¹³ Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:

¹⁴ Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.

¹⁵ And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

Edited August 4, 2019 by luigi

[dhchristian]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

Who do you think they who forsake Christ's Way in Isaiah 65:1-2, whom the Lord decides to eradicate Himself of in Isaiah 65:11-15, represent?

read Micah 5 

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mic/5/5/ss0/s_898005

[luigi]

13 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

read Micah 5 

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mic/5/5/ss0/s_898005

The travailing woman in Revelation 12 represent the travailing saints in Daniel 7:25.

These travailing saints, aka the travailing woman, are seen again in Micah 4:9.

These saints comprise of people from all over the world, including some from the land of Israel who will have been exiled from the land of Israel after the first half of the week (Micah 4:10).

After the second half of the week (3.5 years), those individuals in exile in the field and in Babylon (Micah 4:10), along with the other remnant surviving saints are gathered from the four winds and are transported to the Middle East. 

These are the saints described in Micah 5. One body, all of whom representing true Israel.

 

Micah 4:9 Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail.

Micah 4:10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the Lord shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.

[luigi]

13 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

True. But how to understand this controversy or disagreement? 1 Kings 19:v.18 gives us a clue.  The Lord said:  18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.  1 Kings 20v.13-15 - 

13 And, behold, there came a prophet unto Ahab king of Israel, saying, Thus saith the Lord, Hast thou seen all this great multitude? behold, I will deliver it into thine hand this day; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord.

14 And Ahab said, By whom? And he said, Thus saith the Lord, Even by the young men of the princes of the provinces. Then he said, Who shall order the battle? And he answered, Thou.

15 Then he numbered the young men of the princes of the provinces, and they were two hundred and thirty two: and AFTER them he numbered ALL THE PEOPLE, even ALL THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, being seven thousand.

Now let us see: Was ALL the children of Israel only and only 7,000? Of course not, maybe millions, and God did not consider these millions as CHILDREN of ISRAEL because they were idolaters and for God they all were uncircumcised like the Gentile peoples.  Only and only 7 thousand were Israelites really and these were ALL Israel before God. 

 

In the time of Elyjah the prophet of the Lord, was numbered ALL THE PEOPLE, even ALL THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, being seven thousand.

Now, even now, in the present time of Apocalypse, the number of ALL THE PEOPLE, even ALL THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, is only and only 144,000 not more, not more than these 144.000.   The others, such as the uncircumcised inhabitants of Israel in the days of Elijah, will all be lost. 

Isaiah 10:v.22-23

22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return - 144.000 -: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

23 For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land. - land of Israel

Romans 2:v.11-12

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned WITHOUT LAW - the Gentiles - shall also PERISH without law: and as many as have sinned IN THE LAW shall be JUDGED by the law;

The people of God around the world are true Israel.

True Israel is spiritual, and not carnal descendancy.

God is Love (1 John 4:8 & 16).

 

[R. Hartono]

On 8/4/2019 at 7:56 PM, luigi said:

It is therefore my opinion that the travailing woman in Revelation 12 represents the travailing saints in Daniel 7, and also Daniel 11 & 12. The bride of the Lord.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Dan 7:25 speak about the tribulation saints who shall be martyred by the 5th seal opening and their souls go to below the Altar.

Rev 12:14 Speak about the EXODUS of the Jews out of Israel as explained in Dan 12:1 asf :

Daniel 12:1 ..... and there shall be a time of  trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people (Jews) shall be delivered.....

[luigi]

17 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Yes, the true Church of the Lord JESUS Christ is the true Israel, the spiritual Israel, for having JESUS abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances, for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace.  For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Eph.3:v.15&18

JESUS came unto His own, and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:11-13

Yes, Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which genders to bondage, which is Agar.  For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Gal.4:v.22-26

Yes, true. But you know that our God is also a devouring FIRE. By the way, Isaiah prophesied, saying: 33:v.10-17

10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.

11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.

12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.

13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.

14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.

17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

Nice, I agree with your perspective.

[luigi]

6 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Dan 7:25 speak about the tribulation saints who shall be martyred by the 5th seal opening and their souls go to below the Altar.

Rev 12:14 Speak about the EXODUS of the Jews out of Israel as explained in Dan 12:1 asf :

Daniel 12:1 ..... and there shall be a time of  trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people (Jews) shall be delivered.....

I agree with your perspective that Daniel 7:25 correlates with the martyred saints described with the opening of the 5th seal.

Daniel 7:25, however, in which the saints are worn out for a time, times, and dividing of time, also correlates with the martyred saints in Daniel 11:33-35, of which Daniel 12:7 corroborates occurring during the time, times, and an half.

The only other place with this type description is Revelation 12:14 with "time, times, and half a time", which Revelation 12:6 describes corresponding to 1,260 days.

Additional corroboration that Revelation 12 is not a historical account of the Exodus given to John circa 95 AD, is Revelation 4:1, where John is called to heaven to be shown things which must be hereafter.

Everything in Revelation chapters 4 through 22 therefore concern the hereafter from circa 95 AD.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.