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R. Hartono

Woman of Revelation 12

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12 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Yes, I Know. 

Thank You for the interaction, The LORD showed me something through it that I had not seen before, And that is Truly a blessing. I will be departing on good terms.

Thanks R Hartono, The LORD used this brief encounter as a blessing. To Be honest I thought it was going to be far briefer, But the Holy Ghost showed up. 

The words written here are meant as Blessing to all who read them. The Cross is always open for service, Many a Man and woman has gone there in humility and repentance. It is at the cross the chains fall off, and the burdens are laid down. Submitting to Jesus is the greatest form of liberation there is. Luke 4:18

Depart (if you must) but leave blessed!

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2 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

David,

If the Manchild is the bride gets raptured to heaven,  how could the dragon stand by to devour her ? because nobody knows the day and hour of the rapture not even the Son.

The Man Child is not the Bride. The Man child and the offspring of the Woman are the saints. They stand in the gap for the bride. Their deeds are the fine linen of the bride (Rev. 19:8). Paul a saint did not equate himself with the bride. ( 2 Cor 11:2).

Both myself and Iamlamad believe that Rev 12:1-5 is a jump back or a parenthesis in the book of revelation. We disagree how far back that Jump is. He says the woman is Israel, and the Manchild is Jesus, I say the Woman is the church, and the Manchild are the overcoming saints. 

For me, Revelation consists of seven scrolls if you will, The scroll of the trumpets ends at Rev. 11:19, The scroll of the characters begins at 12:1, and continues through the end of chapter 14. Each scroll has overlap, each ends at a certain day, the day of the LORD, Some go back further in time, others to just shortly before the last one. These are the seven thunders unsealed (if I might be so bold to say). This can only fully be grasped by the teaching of the Holy Ghost, for Human understanding is  insufficient, in that it is limited by time and space. For example, The human mind sees things like the sun and moon darkening and explains these supernatural events as natural events such as eclipses. I Have heard all kinds of theories such as the Locusts are apache helicopters, and the Bottomless pit is the Hollow Earth, and the beast is a President of the U.S.A.... That is because that is the rational human mind trying to make sense of the imagery therein. But if you remove time and space(material explanations) and you start to see the overlap, then the overlap adds to the understanding of each event, Gives it a depth of understanding. Instead of saying why the fifth seal and rev. 12 cannot go hand in hand, you will start to see that they add dimension and depth to each other, and also you will see why the church is not mentioned after Rev. 3. You will see then why the A of D is the first event of the final week, and not the middle of the week, and that this is a time of desolations that lasts 3.5 years and is synonymous with the Great tribulation.  There is no need to conjure up concepts such as "tribulation saints," or saying the church age is a great tribulation of sorts different from the final week great tribulation. There is a great Beauty in revelation that I cannot even begin to describe when you start to explore it this way, But your mind also will interfere with this admiration, because the Mind is where doubt is born, and Our understanding wants to contain the whole, rather than letting the whole be and letting our mind enter into the whole.

It is like a work of art. The mind can comprehend the subject, and the brushstrokes, But Beauty is not just grasped by the mind, there is passion, emotion, Love, and grandeur, all of which the mind cannot grasp or rationalize. Proverbs 3:5-6 applies here. So I can say that revelation consists of seven scrolls, but even this is a mental construct used to contain revelation.

As an example, the scroll of the seals ends at rev. 8:5, But in 8:3 we see the seven angels with the seven trumpets. The Human mind limited by time and space makes the assumption that the trumpets follow the seventh seal, and upon reading that passage this makes sense logically. But in view of the whole, this forces you to add things to the book that are not there, such as two great tribulations, such as has been said here.

I Do not claim to know everything there is to know, But I do know that this is the blessing of studying revelation, It puts your faith in your mind into perspective with omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence of Almighty God. As Ezekiel said, when asked if these dry bones can live he did not say yes or no, he said "LORD thou knowest", thus leaving the possibility for God to reveal to Him How they would live. That is where our heart needs to be.  

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1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Depart (if you must) but leave blessed!

I Knew this was only a short term thing here. 

So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. (1 Cor 3;7-8)

 

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