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The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
 
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
 
 
The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
 
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 
Question: are these verses telling us of ONE TIME these signs will be seen, as a sign for ONE EVENT?
Or are these verses telling us of TWO DIFFERENT signs for TWO DIFFERENT events?
 
There are more:
 
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
 
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
 
 

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This is referring to the next mass extinction event "Wormwood". This complete narrative matches perfectly the the K-Pg event of the dinosaurs, both in effects and duration in amazing detail. This scripture is astonishing and a miracle of God to be published thousands of years before any of this could be understood. This is describing the results of simultaneous global wide volcanic activity caused by the shock of a meteor impact. 

Edited by Scott Free
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*[[Mar 13:24]] KJV* But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

One thing this verse tells us.   There is no pre - great tribulation,  tribulation.   "Those days"  refers back to verse 19:

*[[Mar 13:19]] KJV* For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

The great tribulation days begins BEFORE the sun and moon are darkened. 

The PuP 

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3 hours ago, iamlamad said:
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
 
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
 
 
The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
 
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 
Question: are these verses telling us of ONE TIME these signs will be seen, as a sign for ONE EVENT?
Or are these verses telling us of TWO DIFFERENT signs for TWO DIFFERENT events?
 
There are more:
 
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
 
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
 
 

Many of these verses require the context in which they were written. Also remember that Jewish thinking is cyclical so why can't these events actually be multiple or continual reiterating the continuation of an event. Also, ask the Holy Spirit.

 

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2 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

*[[Mar 13:24]] KJV* But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

One thing this verse tells us.   There is no pre - great tribulation,  tribulation.   "Those days"  refers back to verse 19:

*[[Mar 13:19]] KJV* For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

The great tribulation days begins BEFORE the sun and moon are darkened. 

The PuP 

Well, you have proven that by Mar. 13, there will be signs AFTER the tribulation. 

And before these signs as given in verse 24, days of GT will be on the earth. 

Well said. But are these the signs given in Joel 2:31 and at the 6th seal?

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22 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

Many of these verses require the context in which they were written. Also remember that Jewish thinking is cyclical so why can't these events actually be multiple or continual reiterating the continuation of an event. Also, ask the Holy Spirit.

 

Wiser words have seldom been spoken: KEEP verses in their context!

I will add another one: things that SEEM to be similar in a given translation my not be when the Greek or Hebrew is studied. 

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20 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Well, you have proven that by Mar. 13, there will be signs AFTER the tribulation. 

And before these signs as given in verse 24, days of GT will be on the earth. 

Well said. But are these the signs given in Joel 2:31 and at the 6th seal?

Absolutely yes.   The same language is used earlier in Joel 2 that gives us two important unique connections to that day: 

*[[Joe 2:10]] KJV* The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

*[[Joe 2:11]] KJV* And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is GREAT and very TERRIBLE; and who can abide it?

They are:

1.Shaking both heaven & earth,

2.God uttering his voice. 

Hebrews tells us that it is a one and only one - time event in which God will shake the heavens and the earth with the shout of his voice: 

*[[Heb 12:26]] KJV* Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. [27] And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. [28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Joel 2:10,11 is further connected to verse 31 by calling both "great & terrible":

*[[Joe 2:31]] KJV* The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the GREAT and the TERRIBLE day of the LORD come.

Jer 25:29-30, Joel 3:16,Amos 1:2, Haggai 2:21ff connects all these things together. Once more God will shake the heavens that will bring in the everlasting kingdom: 

*[[Rev 6:13]] KJV* And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

*[[Rev 12:10]] KJV* And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

The PuP 

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Joel 2:31  Darkness:  Strong’s: (chôshek), kho-shek'; from H2821; the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively, misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness:—dark(-ness), night, obscurity. 

 (A verb showing action  - something not normal – unusual. Standing outside at night, one would expect a certain amount of light – but this is all the light taken away!)

 Gen 1:2 (chôshek) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness H2822 was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:4  (chôshek)  And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. H2822

[can be summarized as “deprived of light”, or that the “light is taken”.  In other words, it is the near total absence of light. (Like standing deep in a coal mine)]

 oel 2:10 Dark:  Strong’s: קָדַר qâdar, kaw-dar'; a primitive root; to be ashy, i.e. dark-colored; by implication, to mourn (in sackcloth or sordid garments):—be black(-ish), be (make) dark(-en), × heavily, (cause to) mourn.  (Masculine noun describing a normal condition)

 1Ki 18:45  (qâdar) And it came to pass in the mean while, that the heaven was black H6937 with clouds and wind, and there was a great rain. And Ahab rode, and went to Jezreel.

Joe 3:15 (qâdar)  The sun and the moon shall be darkened, H6937 and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Jer 4:28  (qâdar) For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: H6937 because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

 summarized as “darkness, as opposed to black”, or “blackness, vs. black”.  In other words, it is what we would commonly describe as “the dark of night” as opposed to the “the absence of all light” as if standing in a coal mine.

 Consider Joel 2: same writer, same letter - why would he use two different words for the condition of darkness in the two different verses? One verse, 31 comes before THE DAY, but verse 10, it seems, is IN the day. And verse 10 uses the same word he used in chapter 3, a time of Jesus’ coming.

 It seems Joel was seeing TWO DIFFERENT types of darkness. In one, the sky is totally dark – not even star light, so the absence of light – abnormal.

 In Matthew and Mark, the same Greek word is used for darkness. skotizó: to darken  It is a verb.

Strong’s:  “to cover with darkness, to darken; passive, to be covered with darkness, be darkened”: properly, of the heavenly bodies, as deprived of light

 We see then  that Joel 2:10, 3:15, Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:24 appear to be detailing the same type of event when it comes to the occurrence in the sun.  All four scriptures tell us that the light of the sun will be taken from the earth when this event comes to pass. This is very similar to ordinary nightfall. All these use a verb form to describe it.  

Now Rev. 6:12-13

 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

 black as sackcloth of hair  What does this mean?  Look at a black goat!

 Vine’s for sackcloth: made from the hair of the black goat of Cilicia;”  “a warm material woven from goat’s or camel’s hair,” and hence of a dark color,” “ also for making sacks,”

Bible Dictionary:  “Sackcloth (pv sak aeKKos saccys) was a coarse woven materials from goats and camels hair and dark of a color Hence: as we see from Rev 6:19 are ‘Became the black as sackcloth of hair…’”

 Is there any light in “black as sackcloth of hair?” Could it describe the absence of light. Imagine looking at the sun and actually being ABLE to look at it, because it was putting out NO light at all.  John is not bringing sackcloth to a new level of black, but rather he is setting the perception of the sun to what people of that day would see in black sackcloth – no light.

 In fact, if the sun was putting out no light, it would probably not even be visible.  In such a case, the moon should not be visible either – but the moon appears blood red – so we have a very unusual condition in both the sun and the moon. 

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The MOON:

 How can anyone equate the moon “not giving her light” with a blood moon? To know a blood moon is to SEE a blood moon. We all SHOULD know that if the moon is not giving (reflecting) her light, she is invisible! Clearly these two terms cannot be equated!

 For Joel 2:10 and 3:15, the word qā·ḏā·rū used  -  the exact same word used for the signs in the sun. So Joel used the very same word for both the sun and the moon.  And according to Joel, it would be looking at both at the same time. Remember, this is a noun describing a normal condition. (At the right time of day, as the sun is setting, the moon could be visible- if at the right time of the month.) For Joel’s and Matthew’s verses, perhaps like a cloudy night where the light is just lessoned  - perhaps the time of month where the moon is not seen. This is not an active verb description, where perhaps an outside force is causing it. One could say, “the absence of most light” – like a dark night: still a tiny bit of light.

 Matthew says, “the moon will not give her light.” We know the light of the moon is sunlight reflected. It appears then that the sunlight is not hitting the moon to be reflected.  We could say “the dark of night” or the night with no moonlight. This kind of a night comes every month.

 Another interesting point: in the Byzantine Majority text, The Alexandrian text, and the Hort and Wescott text, the word “Hole” [olh] in including, meaning the moon WHOLE: it is speaking of a full moon. It is most likely speaking of a lunar eclipse.  In Joel, 2:10 and Joel 3, [wə·yā·rê·aḥ] he used a slightly different form of the Hebrew word for moon than he used in 2:31 [wə·hay·yā·rê·aḥ]. They both mean the same moon that we see. But why the difference? Could one add the meaning of a full moon? I don’t know. The point?  of the 7 feasts of the Jews, 6 of them include a full moon!  There are three distinct phases of the moon in the bible: the new moon, when the first tiny bit of light is reflected and can be visible seen; then “the moon” - all phases up to the full, and finally the full moon.

 Note that it was the sliver of a moon that was the time keeper. They had to have two witnesses to verify they saw a tiny bit of light from the moon. Keep in mind, for two or three days before that, NO LIGHT from the moon -  a normal occurrence. Remember, a moon “not giving her light” cannot possibly be a blood moon.

 Next, there is a difference between falling stars and stars failing to give light.

 The start of the seven year tribulation

The sun turned to darkness Joel 2:30, Acts 2:20, Revelation 6:12

The turned to blood Joel 2:30, Acts 2:20, Revelation 6:12

The stars fall to earth Revelation 6:13

The end of the seven year tribulation

The sun and moon go dark Joel 2:10*, 3:15, Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24

The stars withdraw their shining Joel 2:10*, 3:15

The stars fall from heaven Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24

 Note: there is a difference in stars falling to earth and stars falling from heaven.

We know a real star could not fall to earth. Remember, anything that glows in the night sky we tend to call a “star” – even a tiny meteorite that is falling into earth’s atmosphere.

 Conclusion: when the sun turns dark, and the moon into blood, they are not necessarily seen at the same time. It could be months in between. But when both the sun and moon are darkened, it is seeing both at the same time. When “the sun turns dark” it is more like something obstructing it – blocking the rays: again it seems more like an eclipse. An total eclipse of the sun comes ONLY with a dark moon. If a sliver of moon is showing, then it will not be a total eclipse.

 Note VERY carefully: when a total solar eciplse takes place: “The sun  is darkened” even if but for a short period of time. “The moon is darkened” maybe for three days. Most stars are not visible – it is day time – even though it is dark. On clear days there will always be star light – even the dimmist stars can be seen if away from city lights. It may then appear darker during a solar eclipse than on a normal night.  How can the sun “turn into” darkness? At an eclipse.

 The moon in ANY phase cannot cause the stars to darken so they cannot be seen. But a total eclipse of the sun will make stars difficult to see, because it is day, not night: “stars shall not give their light” and “withdraw their shining.”

 Things to ponder: the signs in the sun and moon as shown in Joel 2:10 and Joel 3 are signs that will happen at the same time, or be seen at the same time.

NOT so of the sign in Joel 2:31.

 Given the evidence, it seems very clear that God is telling us of TWO different signs for TWO different purposes. We have Joel 2:31 with the 6th seal events as one level of darkness, using a verb, while Joel 2:10 and Joel 3, along with the gospel versions, showing a normal night kind of darkness.

 My conclusion then is that Joel 2:10, 3:15, Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:24 bookend the END of the 70th week, while Joel  2:31 and the 6th seal bookend the BEGINNING of the 70th week.

 What we can prove by scripture:

 At the start of the “tribulation” or 70th week:

Solar eclipse – blood moon – meteor shower (Falling stars falling to the earth) NOT at the same time.

 AFTER the tribulation:

Total or annular solar eclipse (stars dark) Falling stars

Sun and moon go dark: same time

Joel 2:10, 3:15, Matthew 24, Mark 13:24

 Stars withdraw their shining: Joel 2:10 and 3:15.

 Stars fall from heaven: Matthew 24:29, Mark 13.24

 In March 20, 2015, the solar eclipse and last blood moon  were both visible from Israel.  There was a meteor shower same year from Oct to Nov.

 Conclusion:  we have all three elements of Revelation 6:12-13 – the sun is darkened, the moon turns to blood and the stars falling – in that order. In 2015 -  in the space of 19 days – all on feast days of Israel. Coincidence? Hardly!   

I look for the signing of the treaty soon, right after the rapture. 

Edited by iamlamad

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24 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

Absolutely yes.   The same language is used earlier in Joel 2 that gives us two important unique connections to that day: 

*[[Joe 2:10]] KJV* The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

*[[Joe 2:11]] KJV* And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is GREAT and very TERRIBLE; and who can abide it?

They are:

1.Shaking both heaven & earth,

2.God uttering his voice. 

Hebrews tells us that it is a one and only one - time event in which God will shake the heavens and the earth with the shout of his voice: 

*[[Heb 12:26]] KJV* Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. [27] And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. [28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Joel 2:10,11 is further connected to verse 31 by calling both "great & terrible":

*[[Joe 2:31]] KJV* The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the GREAT and the TERRIBLE day of the LORD come.

Jer 25:29-30, Joel 3:16,Amos 1:2, Haggai 2:21ff connects all these things together. Once more God will shake the heavens that will bring in the everlasting kingdom: 

*[[Rev 6:13]] KJV* And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

*[[Rev 12:10]] KJV* And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

The PuP 

I say absolutely no.  When we study these things out, it is easy to see these signs in the sun and moon are different and that they happen at different times.

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      In The Wars of the Jews book 6, chapter 4, Josephus tells us that many considered the temple a citadel for the Jews and an inspiration to continue rebelling against the Roman occupation. The fire had already been ordered against the gates of the temple, but Titus argued and verbally prevailed in regards to saving the temple.
      "But Titus said, that "although the Jews should get upon that holy house, and fight us thence, yet ought we not to revenge ourselves on things that are inanimate, instead of the men themselves;" and that he was not in any case for burning down so vast a work as that was, because this would be a mischief to the Romans themselves, as it would be an ornament to their government while it continued. So Fronto, and Alexander, and Cerealis grew bold upon that declaration, and agreed to the opinion of Titus. Then was this assembly dissolved, when Titus had given orders to the commanders that the rest of their forces should lie still; but that they should make use of such as were most courageous in this attack. So he commanded that the chosen men that were taken out of the cohorts should make their way through the ruins, and quench the fire."
      "Titus's retiring, the seditious lay still for a little while, and then attacked the Romans again, when those that guarded the holy house fought with those that quenched the fire that was burning the inner [court of the] temple; but these Romans put the Jews to flight, and proceeded as far as the holy house itself. At which time one of the soldiers, without staying for any orders, and without any concern or dread upon him at so great an undertaking, and being hurried on by a certain divine fury, snatched somewhat out of the materials that were on fire, and being lifted up by another soldier, he set fire to a golden window, through which there was a passage to the rooms that were round about the holy house, on the north side of it. As the flames went upward, the Jews made a great clamor, such as so mighty an affliction required, and ran together to prevent it; and now they spared not their lives any longer, nor suffered anything to restrain their force, since that holy house was perishing, for whose sake it was that they kept such a guard about it."
      Notice the reaction of Titus and ask yourself, does this look like someone bent on a complete destruction of the temple?
      "And now a certain person came running to Titus, and told him of this fire, as he was resting himself in his tent after the last battle; whereupon he rose up in great haste, and, as he was, ran to the holy house, in order to have a stop put to the fire; after him followed all his commanders, and after them followed the several legions, in great astonishment; so there was a great clamor and tumult raised, as was natural upon the disorderly motion of so great an army. Then did Caesar, both by calling to the soldiers that were fighting, with a loud voice, and by giving a signal to them with his right hand, order them to quench the fire. But they did not hear what he said, though he spake so loud, having their ears already dimmed by a greater noise another way; nor did they attend to the signal he made with his hand neither, as still some of them were distracted with fighting, and others with passion. But as for the legions that came running thither, neither any persuasions nor any threatening could restrain their violence, but each one's own passion was his commander at this time;” I perceive this statement to be the most telling of them all, and it was said by Titus, the Roman general:
      “Moreover, do the Arabians and Syrians now, first of all, begin to govern themselves as they please, and to indulge their appetites in a foreign war, and then, out of their barbarity in murdering men, and out of their hatred to the Jews, get it ascribed to the Romans?"
      Titus’ fear was that the barbarity of these men would be ascribed to the Romans, and that is exactly what we do when we declare the fourth empire to be a revived Roman Empire. Do you not see that ascribing Rome to the fourth empire also takes our eyes off what could be the true evil of the last days, Islam?
      In recent years, I held the position that “the saints” were only those that were martyred during the seven-year period of God’s wrath, that we so foolishly call the tribulation. I did the very thing I despise, spewing out concepts as fact without checking my Bible adequately. Paul used the term saints throughout his writings, and that tends to dispel the idea that the saints are exclusive to the years of wrath. Several examples are Ephesians 1:1; Philippians 1:1; Ephesians 6:8, and numerable others.
      The terminology saint immediately takes me to Revelation where we see things like the woman, drunken with the blood of the saints (Revelation 17:6). It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the largest implication here is the martyred saints.
      However, there is something notable about John’s writings. He never used the term saints in speaking about the church outside of the Revelation; the majority of the time he calls them –little children and brethren. The feel is one of association and an understanding of the heart and character of God. Considering John’s beginnings in comparison to the end, it only makes sense that he would have God’s heart as he unfolds the Revelation, a time of nightmarish destruction and judgment. This time is not directed at “my little children.”
      I realize that I initiated this conversation with a portion of Daniel, not John, yet they talk about the same thing. This demonstrates the leading and direction of the Holy Spirit. We cannot discount that John’s recollection of Daniel’s prophecies may have played a role in John’s terminology.
      When you look at end times prophecy, there are only three people groups to consider: the Jews, the nations, and the church. While there can and will be some crossing over between the Jews and the church; at that point followers of Christ are considered a part of the church.
      Some will say that God gave up on the Jews. I do not think so. He has engraved their names and faces on the palms of his hands. You do not give up something that precious, especially after showing that level of commitment. God has a plan to drive the heart of the Jew, his chosen, back to himself. Unfortunately, there is much pain and suffering involved with that journey.
      In general, the Jews have rejected Jesus, the Messiah, and therefore subject themselves to the wrath that is coming.
      And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou had known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knew not the time of thy visitation. (Luke 19:41-44 KJV)
      The rejection of God by Israel is a common theme. An example of this is seen in the selection of Saul as king.
      And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. (1 Samuel 8:7 KJV)
      The nations could also be referred to as the Gentiles. Daniel referred to them as the people of the prince that shall come. Jesus, talking about the days of vengeance said,
      “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24 KJV)
      The church is the entire collection of believers comprising the body of Christ.
      And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fullness of him that fills all in all. (Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV)
      Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. (Colossians 1:15-18 KJV)
      In general, the church is excluded from the wrath, or vengeance, that is coming upon the earth.
      But God proves his love for us by this (James Moffatt), in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (Romans 5:8-9 KJV)
      “. you turned to God from idols, to serve a living and a real God and to wait for the coming of his Son from heaven — the Son whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who rescues us from the Wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 Moffatt NT)
      The church likes to hold itself in exclusivity, thinking that we are protected from tribulation. Look, Jesus guaranteed us three things:
      In this world, you will have tribulation. You will be hated by all men for my names’ sake. I will come again for you. Tribulation and Wrath/vengeance is two different things. Tribulation is non-stop and comes in many forms. It has nothing to do with your inability to buy a new propeller for the family ski boat. Get real, people in parts of the world where there is a heavy Muslim influence are being killed daily.
      If you lived under a constant threat of death, do you think you would feel as though you are being worn down, absolutely?
      Perhaps the Bible in Basic English translates it more appropriately. Daniel 7:25 (a) BBE “And he will say words against the Most High, attempting to put an end to the saints of the Most High;” It is clear that the intent is to kill the saints.
      And he shall speak words against the Most High, and he shall wear out the saints of the Most High. And he intends to change times and law. And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and one-half time. (Daniel 7:25 LITV)
      Daniel 7:23 Declares what was to come, the fourth beast. If the fourth beast is Islam, then that was initiated over 600 years after Christ's death by Muhammad.
      Born approximately in 570 CE in the Arabian city of Mecca,[9][10] Muhammad was orphaned at an early age; he was raised under the care of his paternal uncle Abu Talib. After his childhood, Muhammad primarily worked as a merchant.[11] Occasionally he would retreat to a cave in the mountains for several nights of seclusion and prayer; later, at age 40, he reported at this spot,[9][12] that he was visited by Gabriel and received his first revelation from God. Three years after this event Muhammad started preaching these revelations publicly, proclaiming that "God is One", that complete "surrender" (lit. islām) to Him is the only way (dīn)[n 3] acceptable to God, and that he was a prophet and messenger of God, similar to other Islamic prophets.[13][14][15] (From Wikipedia.)
      Islam has operated under various caliphates since the death of Muhammad in 632 AD (BCE). While all of them caused the Middle Eastern world grief, the largest most powerful were the Ottoman Caliphate.
      Ottoman Caliphate (1453/1517–1924)
      At the end of October 1922, the Allies invited the nationalist and Ottoman governments to a conference at Lausanne, Switzerland, but Atatürk was determined that the nationalist government should be Turkey's sole representative. In November 1922, the Grand National Assembly separated the offices of sultan and caliph and abolished the former. The assembly further stated that the Ottoman regime had ceased to be the government of Turkey when the Allies seized the capital in 1920, in effect abolishing the Ottoman Empire. Excerpt from, the Ottomans.org
      Is it possible that believers have been under attack for eighteen hundred years, without a doubt!
      Pay attention to another aspect of Islam.
      “The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Ismailia, Egypt by Hassan al-Banna in March 1928 as an Islamist religious, political, and social movement.[1][2] The group spread to other Muslim countries but has its largest, or one of its largest, organizations in Egypt, where for many years it has been the largest, best-organized, and most disciplined political opposition force,[3][4][5] despite a succession of government crackdowns in 1948, 1954, 1965 after plots, or alleged plots, of assassination and overthrow were uncovered. Following the 2011 Revolution the group was legalized,[5] and in April 2011 it launched a civic political party called the Freedom and Justice Party (Egypt) to contest elections.” (Wikipedia)
      Notice that this is two years after the Caliphate was disbanded.
      “Links to the Nazis began during the 1930s and were close during the Second World War, involving agitation against the British, espionage and sabotage, as well as support for terrorist activities orchestrated by Haj Amin el-Hussaini in British Mandate Palestine, as a wide range of declassified documents from the British, American and Nazi German governmental archives, as well as from personal accounts and memoirs from that period, confirm.[7] Reflecting this connection the Muslim Brotherhood also disseminated Hitler's Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion widely in Arab translations, helping to deepen and extend already existing hostile views about Jews and Western societies generally.[8]” (Wikipedia)
      The point to this is that Islam has been a destructive thorn in the flesh of those who do not comply for over 1800 years. Have they been a global threat throughout their history, no, but it took a global response to subdue them in 1922. I think we can agree that they are global now, and a greater threat than ever before. Aside from that, their prime directive is to kill the people of the book, which would be the Jew and the Christian. Have you noticed that they are making a serious dent in their goals?
      If you have watched the news the last couple of years, then you are aware of Christians that are being slaughtered in the mid-East and African nations. Perhaps you have also noticed that attacks against any group outside of Islam are fair game to them. Buddhists, Catholics, you name it. They even fight each other as though there is a competition to see who can follow the Qur’an most precisely. Unfortunately, for the outsider, while the Qur’an does have passages devoted to peace, they are superseded by newer passages that demand a strict and violent compliance.
      I think it is evident that there is affliction directed at Christians in certain parts of the world. Not to be left out of this violence against Christians is China and North Korea. I suppose the question is, how long until this level of violence comes to the Americas and afflicts us as well?
      Do not think that your non-belief will protect you. In general, Islam feels that any American is a Christ follower and worthy of death. Scripture tells me that you may have a chance to reject God and accept Allah as your God of choice, bowing before him in worship. Perhaps that will save your neck for the moment. I am aware that they cut a man’s head off anyway, possibly because they felt he was a coward with no backbone. I suspect it will not be as easy as that, and they may not have the time to await your decision. Of course, giving into this cuts you off from any hope of a relationship with God. In other words, there is no turning back from this decision.
      If you do not know this Jesus Christ, you can. Ask him into your life, and turn yourself over to him and accept his forgiveness. Allow him to run it. You do not have to work for your salvation, as it is free and paid for, you merely have to receive this life and salvation. You will experience a peace that you have never known before and a promise that he will come for you so that you can live with him in glory.
    • By Mary8
      The Feasts Fulfilled
      from 18 Feb 1991ml   I have made some changes.  See end for notes.

      Passover
         Jews in ancient Israel were required to go to Jerusalem to celebrate three feasts, Passover, Pentecost, and in the autumn, Trumpets.
         Jesus fulfilled Passover which occurred on a full moon, the 14th day of the month Nisan. 
         Passover celebrates the Exodus from Egypt, which bespeaks salvation, escape, deliverance.
         Nisan 1 commences at the New Moon, as do all months on the Jewish calendar.  This month should mark the beginning of the year by Jews (rather than in September/October as they presently observe, the Civil Year.)
         Ex. 12:1-3:  "And the Lord spoke unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months:  it shall be the first month of the year to you.  Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb .... a lamb for an house."
         Jesus, the slain Lamb, is the only acceptable sacrifice, and believers trust in the Blood of the Lamb and are thereby saved.

      Unleavened Bread
         Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened Bread which commenced the same day as Passover, on the 14th day of Nisan, and it was a seven day period of eating bread without leavening, which represents sin.  This feast was fulfilled before God only, as Jesus, the sinless one was lifted up before God.

      Firstfruits
         Jesus fulfilled Firstfruits by arising from the grave on the third day after His death.  The term Firstfruits refers to the first sheaves of barley which were ready to cut and Jesus's resurrection is the  fulfillment.  [Lev. 23:10.]  Many saved people were also resurrected from their graves and walked about the Jerusalem area at the time of Jesus's resurrection.  This first group of resurrected saints compares to the Rapture of believers as the world goes on around the event.
         I believe the Rapture of the Church is shown in the following Scriptures.  Jesus the grain, died, brought forth much fruit, and His Church is likened to a harvest of grain.  Jesus often likened Himself to a husbandman also, and here He is waiting for the precious fruit, the gathering of the harvest of souls.
         John 12:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
         James 5:7  Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
         The barley and wheat harvests in Israel are the early crops, with the earliest, the barley harvest completed in April, and the wheat completed in May.  This year of 2018, Passover commences Friday evening, March 30, and the counting of the days, Lag b'Omer, and Omer 1 starts on March 31.  Jesus arose on Firstfruits, "the morrow after the Sabbath," Sunday, and in 2018, Firstfruits is Sunday, April 1, through Saturday, April 7.   The Lag b'Omer ends on the 50th day, the morrow after the Sabbath, which is Pentecost.  Lev. 23.  Centuries ago, the Jewish calendar was changed, and Pentecost was shifted from always being on a Sunday 'the morrow after the Sabbath,' to Sivan 6.  This year of 2018, Sivan 6 happens to fall on Pentecost Sunday.  
         These days are for me a time of considering whether He may gather us during the period of the grain harvest.
          Lev. 23:10-11 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:  And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 
         The people were not to eat of the grain until it had been waved before the Lord.
         We see a picture of a time of rejoicing for Israel revealed in the story of old Naomi, and her restoration and joy in having a little boy to care for in her old age.  Ruth was married and taken into Boaz's house and lifted out of her time of gleaning in the field.  The son of Boaz, Obed, is born.  Others have noted that the book of Ruth is like the story of the Church and the Lord Jesus, and I think there is also this parallel to Israel revealed in Naomi's story, that Jesus is like Boaz, and when He and the Church are wed in heaven, a son will be born, the sealed servants in Israel. 
         Naomi will be brought back to joys she had thought were lost forever.  Just as Obed means "serving," so the end time, 144,000 believing Jews will be excellent servants of God  as we are told in Revelation.  Naomi means "pleasantness" but she said she had become bitterness.  Naomi's joy will return.   Other types of these victorious, believing Jews are seen in the three young men in the fiery furnace; in Elisha; and in Ephraim, the younger son of Joseph; and in Benjamin.

      Pentecost
         I believe the harvest of grain in springtime points to the season of the coming of the Lord for His believers.  The increase of the grain, the harvest reveals the way He has multiplied His believers like a sower who cultivates His field.
         Pentecost celebrates the giving of the law, and occurs after seven sabbaths, on a Sunday ("the morrow after the sabbath") according to Scripture, (making it another reason for us to worship on Sunday, the day Christ arose). 
         This fulfillment occurred when the Holy Spirit fell upon the gathered believers, as Jesus had promised.  He came with a noise of a mighty wind, and the separated 120 believers saw the flames of fire on one another's heads.  Believers spoke in other tongues, telling about Jesus to people of other nations.  Just as fire came on Sinai as the law was given, so fire came on the Church in Jerusalem.
         Observance on Sunday has been set aside by the Jews as explained above.
         Tradition says that Enoch was born on Pentecost and was also taken up by God on Pentecost.

      Feast of Trumpets
         Next is the Feast of Trumpets, a convocation of trumpets, and all Jews are to gather in Jerusalem.  Some think the convocation of trumpets will be fulfilled  by believers going up to heaven, being gathered to Him, and that Jesus, as High Priest, will blow the trumpet ['the trump of God'  I Thes.]  just as occurred at this feast in Israel near sundown on the evening before the new moon of Tishri 1 when the High Priest blew the shofar to gather the people, who were to immediately go to the temple.

      The Day of Atonement
         The Day of Atonement was a solemn fast day when the Jews were not to work.   For thousands of years, annually on this day the High Priest went into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled the blood of a sacrifice and interceded for the people.  A rope was tied around his ankle in order to pull him out if he died in there and the sacrifice was not accepted.  Jesus went into the Holy of Holies before the Lord and made an atonement for us by the sprinkling of His own Blood. 
         After the Rapture of the believers, there will be, I believe, an awed multitude of Jews  who see that something has happened and many will seek the Lord.  I think this time of shock is revealed in the first chapter of the Book of Joel, and that following chapters describe the tribulation and their comfort as they find God has not forsaken them.  (I have done a little study on Joel which indicates my reasons.)  Jesus has made our atonement and we won't ever experience the earthly fulfillment of that dreadful dark period. 
         I believe the Jews will experience great revival and miracles, and will believe and evangelize.  The tremendous outpouring of God's Spirit as related in Joel will fall upon them.  I believe "Ephraim" was born in 1948, as Israel became a nation.  During the terrible time of God's wrath outpoured upon the sinful earth, Israel will experience great things.  I believe this is borne out in books of the Old Testament and in the Book of Revelation.  Far from the Jews staying behind to experience only curses, I believe many will believe and please the Lord.  They will become a true witness, just as the three young men in the fiery furnace in Daniel, and the Lord will be manifested among them!  They will live through terrible times as they wait to see Him.  No wonder that He said blessed are those who believe without having to see.
         Believers have received the Blood of the slain Passover Lamb,  His offering of Unleavened Bread, and we have taken the symbols of His Blood in the wine and His body in the broken bread.  We have believed in Firstfruits, with Jesus raised from the dead,  like a grain of wheat buried, seemingly dead, and then sprouted in new life.  We have experienced Pentecost and are in a time of waiting and watching for Jesus to come.  We will never again experience a day of crying out and seeking an atonement because Jesus is our all in all.

      Tabernacles, Booths, Succot
         At this feast, all Jews were to go up to Jerusalem for the great gathering of the people.   They were told by the Lord to live out of doors for a week in little booths made of tree limbs and branches to remind them of the way God had protected them in their sojourn from Egypt.  Tabernacles commences on the full moon, the harvest moon.  Most of the crops are in, the grape harvest is ending in September. 
         The olive will be harvested during September, October, November.
         Revelation mentions the pressing of grapes was the time of His wrath.
         Are the 144,000 believing Jews like olives, pressed, yielding precious oil?  The two witnesses of the Book of Revelation are likened to two olive trees.  The olive harvest and pressing reminds us of the oil being used for the Menorah lamp. We know that the grapes of wrath reveal the wicked. 
         Tabernacles will be fulfilled by the Lord setting His Throne in Jerusalem so all the saved would come up to it, since it is on a mountain, Mount Olivet.
         Remaining Jews will experience the time of Jacob's trouble and consider the fulfillments of some of the feasts, and realize what the Lord has done.  The periods of time spoken of by the prophet Daniel will commence to be fulfilled.
         The Lord has a marvelous plan for the Jews.  He will mightily undertake for them, and just as Joseph dealt with his brothers and restored them to himself in a time of great famine, so the Lord will undertake for them in the dark days prophesied in the Scriptures, and they will be restored to Him with tears of joy. 
         We are soon coming to the sunset, it seems to me.  In the twilight after we believers are gone, the Day of the Lord will commence. 
         The sun was darkened when Jesus died, and the Jewish day commences at sunset, and with it begins the dark Day of the Lord.  The Day of Atonement will come and stretch on as the Jews seek God's salvation in that awful time. 
         The seven years start with the covenant of the evil one and Israel, but there could be some intervening time between the Rapture and the start of the Tribulation.  The time of Jacob's trouble will commence, the time of Daniel's seventieth "week."  Greater things than the Exodus will occur.  Afterward, Tabernacles, and then the light of the new day will come, the thousand year earthly reign of Christ here on earth.  And He shall reign forever and ever.
         Some say the Church will go through the tribulation, that God fulfilled the spring feasts in a mighty way on the earth, but that both believers and unbelievers will move together into the tribulation.
         Jesus will set up His kingdom on earth, and sit upon the throne of David, and rule the earth from Jerusalem.  Every year, all people of the earth will come to worship Him there or they will have no rain, according to Zechariah.  Jesus will reign one thousand years, and turn all over to His Father for eternity. 
         Blessed be the Name of the Lord!  

      *****
      Notes, 26 March 2018: 
         I want to say a bit more about a group referred to by various names: NAR New Apostolic Revolution, Latter Day Rain, MSOG or Manifest Sons of God, Kingdom Now, Dominion Theology, Identity.  They and others teach against pre-tribulation Rapture and that Jesus will not come until believers take over, have dominion over the world.   I've read that they believe that the office of Apostle can be conferred by the laying on of their hands, and that the Church has replaced Israel, Replacement Theology.  
         In 2018, Paul Smith of Calvary Chapel states that the "New Evangelical"  outlook, which I think is spreading among some churches, is that Jesus is gradually coming into hearts.   [So many are being taught to not take the Scripture literally as to Jesus' return.]
         I visited a Manifest Sons type of group with an acquaintance, in 1980s, for their large Feast of Tabernacles meetings and celebration, and it took me awhile, but I realized, 'What about the blessed hope?'  
         I take the Scriptures literally and decided the blessed hope is the hope of His coming for believers -- not death, not tribulation, not being hidden in Petra in the mountains southwest of Jerusalem. 
         I'm surprised, but these post-tribulation ideas are still growing and are found among many.  The Manifest Sons group has their main weekly meeting on Saturday, is allied with "CCC" Christ Community Churches.  Dominion Theology people preach that the Church must bring the earth under control before Jesus can come again.
         We will benefit from comparing Scriptures about 1) the grain harvest 2) the coming for the Bride 3) the householder on a journey who exhorts his servants to watch, and will learn much by looking again at the parables of Jesus.
         All unbelieving people left behind at the Rapture will live during the Time of Jacob's trouble.  God's plan will be fulfilled and many will be saved, but many will die, many will be executed, and suffering will be great.   One hundred forty four thousand Jewish men from the tribes will evangelize and many will believe.  After the departing of the Church, the Scripture will be fulfilled, Jeremiah 8:20  The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.  
         The book of Joel chapter 1 speaks of an event that has occurred:  "The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel. Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?  Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation."  Verse 7: "He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white."   Does this event point to the missing believers and realization by Jews that they had not recognized Messiah, or does it indicate there has been a military attack on Israel?
         Specifics for events in the time of tribulation can be found in Daniel and in the Book of Revelation.
         The evil man will arise and set up world government and eventually enter the Temple in Jerusalem, saying he is God, and the most awful times will occur.  Great numbers of new believers, who will refuse to take his mark, will be beheaded.  Eventually, as Jesus warned, some will flee Jerusalem and hide in the mountains to the southeast, and be sustained by the Lord. 
         Evil unbelieving people of the tribulation are compared to a harvest gathering of grapes, to be crushed.
         Believers during the Time of Jacob's trouble might be compared to the olive harvest, the last harvest of the agricultural year, and the pressing of the olives.
         After a specific number of days, Jesus will come with all His saints, on white horses and clothed in white linen, and He will split Mount Olivet in Jerusalem, east to west.  He will slay all His enemies upon the earth by the word from His mouth.  Some people will live through the tribulation and have children, in a time of peace, blessing, abundance.  Satan will be bound, Rev. 20.
         Rev. 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
         We look forward to His gathering of His grain harvest.  Rev. 22:20  Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
         
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