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iamlamad

SIGNS in the Sun and Moon

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3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I still don't understand why you imagine one event that comes after the days of tribultion can be the same event as one that comes before the days of tribulation. God could use the very same Greek word for both....but TIMING proves they are not the same.  We don't even need to search the Greek to know they are not the same: just keeping each text in its context proves this. 

Also please keep in mind, the same bible that tells you that once more God will shake the earth and the heavens also says "there is one baptism."  Yet, we know there is a baptism in water, a baptism into the body of Christ, and a baptism in the Holy Spirit. Which "one" then did God mean?

It is the same with the shaking: WHICH "shaking" Was Hebrew's referring to? My guess is, the worst shaking  - which is at the 7th vial that shakes the mountains down into the earth. After all, that shaking is indeed "after" the days of tribulation. The shaking at the 6th seal is BEFORE the days of GT.  But it is only a guess because the bible does not make it clear. 

Has God spoken to you and TOLD you wish shaking Hebrews was referring to? 

If you think that there is more than one body, Spirit, hope, Lord, faith, God or baptism,  ...

Concerning your last question,  God is not the author of confusion. 

*[[2Ti 2:14]] KJV* Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The PuP 

Edited by Da Puppers

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4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I still don't understand why you imagine one event that comes after the days of tribultion can be the same event as one that comes before the days of tribulation. God could use the very same Greek word for both....but TIMING proves they are not the same.  We don't even need to search the Greek to know they are not the same: just keeping each text in its context proves this. 

Also please keep in mind, the same bible that tells you that once more God will shake the earth and the heavens also says "there is one baptism."  Yet, we know there is a baptism in water, a baptism into the body of Christ, and a baptism in the Holy Spirit. Which "one" then did God mean?

It is the same with the shaking: WHICH "shaking" Was Hebrew's referring to? My guess is, the worst shaking  - which is at the 7th vial that shakes the mountains down into the earth. After all, that shaking is indeed "after" the days of tribulation. The shaking at the 6th seal is BEFORE the days of GT.  But it is only a guess because the bible does not make it clear. 

Has God spoken to you and TOLD you wish shaking Hebrews was referring to? 

What you are doing is forming doctrine that is external to the scriptures [e.g., that there is more than one shaking of the heavens], and then applying and interpreting scripture from that manmade doctrine,  rather than letting the scriptures form your doctrine.   

The PuP 

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2 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

What you are doing is forming doctrine that is external to the scriptures [e.g., that there is more than one shaking of the heavens], and then applying and interpreting scripture from that manmade doctrine,  rather than letting the scriptures form your doctrine.   

The PuP 

The truth is, there IS more than one shaking. Every time Revelation tells us of an earthquake, that is a shaking. Therefore that scripture in Hebrews must be qualified: what subject, what context, etc.  Just as one must qualify Paul's verse that there is only one baptism. One baptism in relation to what? One baqptism into the body of Christ? One baptism into the Holy Spirit? We need context on these kinds of scriptures. 

The Hebrews verse is probably quoting this:

"For thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘Once more in a little while, I am going to shake the heavens and the earth, the sea also and the dry land.’" Haggai 2:6 NAS

Paul goes on to say in Hebrews:  "And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain."

So now we are not only talking about shaking but also removal! Yet, things that cannot be shaken will remain. 

Maybe Paul is not even taking about and earthquake to shake the earth, or what ever to shake the heavens.  Maybe it is a proverbial shaking. 

How can one "shake" the heavens? Cause a ripple in space that moves every thing: galaxies on down to planets?  

One commentator wrote, " What was of permanent value would be retained, and a kingdom would be established which nothing could move."

Isaiah put it:

Isaiah 13:13

Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger
 
From his verse we know the shaking of heaven will be during the day of the Lord. When Jesus returns as in Rev. 19, HE will shake things:
 
The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
 
In Matthew 24 we get TIMING with the shaking: And it is the POWERS of heavens that is shaken, not the heavens themselves. 
 
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 
Therefore, I will need your help. Which shaking is which shaking? What is Hebrews talking about?
 

 

 

Edited by iamlamad

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2 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

If you think that there is more than one body, Spirit, hope, Lord, faith, God or baptism,  ...

Concerning your last question,  God is not the author of confusion. 

*[[2Ti 2:14]] KJV* Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The PuP 

As I said, the bible speaks of water baptism, baptism into the body of Christ, and baptism in the Holy Spirit  When Paul wrote that there is ONE baptism, I really don't know which ONE he was referencing.  i will ask him when I see him!

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59 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The truth is, there IS more than one shaking. Every time Revelation tells us of an earthquake, that is a shaking. Therefore that scripture in Hebrews must be qualified: what subject, what context, etc.  Just as one must qualify Paul's verse that there is only one baptism. One baptism in relation to what? One baqptism into the body of Christ? One baptism into the Holy Spirit? We need context on these kinds of scriptures. 

The Hebrews verse is probably quoting this:

"For thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘Once more in a little while, I am going to shake the heavens and the earth, the sea also and the dry land.’" Haggai 2:6 NAS

Paul goes on to say in Hebrews:  "And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain."

So now we are not only talking about shaking but also removal! Yet, things that cannot be shaken will remain. 

Maybe Paul is not even taking about and earthquake to shake the earth, or what ever to shake the heavens.  Maybe it is a proverbial shaking. 

How can one "shake" the heavens? Cause a ripple in space that moves every thing: galaxies on down to planets?  

One commentator wrote, " What was of permanent value would be retained, and a kingdom would be established which nothing could move."

Isaiah put it:

Isaiah 13:13

Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger
 
From his verse we know the shaking of heaven will be during the day of the Lord. When Jesus returns as in Rev. 19, HE will shake things:
 
The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
 
In Matthew 24 we get TIMING with the shaking: And it is the POWERS of heavens that is shaken, not the heavens themselves. 
 
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 
Therefore, I will need your help. Which shaking is which shaking? What is Hebrews talking about?
 

 

 

I can see that you agree that Hebrews 12 is a reiteration of something that is still (yet) to happen... prophecy.   Verse 27 tells us alot about when this shaking will take place. 

*[[Heb 12:27]] KJV* And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

What is unshakeable?  The kingdom of God and its fruits of righteousness.  Nothing else is mentioned  as being unshakeable.   When Paul talks about the judgement day: 

*[[1Co 3:13]] KJV* Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the DAY shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Any thing that remains (gold silver, etc) will remain because thee judgment day fires did not burn it up.   He is talking about the souls of men and the truth that we preached unto their "salvation".  

*[[1Co 3:14]] KJV* If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If the salvation that we pointed them to was Christ in them,  the hope of glory,  we will be rewarded for all those souls that we won for him.   My point is that it will be judgment day fires,  when Christ comes to judge the quick and the dead,  that will be the basis for our reward ON THAT DAY. 

FURTHERMORE,  Paul said that the things that are temporal will come to nought by the things that (currently) are not: 

*[[1Co 1:28]] KJV* And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:  That no flesh should glory in his presence.

The metamorphosis of our flesh will result in the revealing of the staying power of kingdom salvation.   It will be our unshakeable faith that will remain true in the fiery trials of life.   It is the trials of tribulation and persecution that proves that we have unshakeable faith,  worthy of the kingdom. 

The judgment of the dead (righteous first) cannot happen until both the kingdom and his appearing takes place: 

*[[2Ti 4:1]] KJV* I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Not just one or the other,  but both must be true.   Forget our differences about when Satan is cast out for a moment.   The casting out of Satan is what allows the kingdom of God to come: 

*[[Rev 12:10]] KJV* And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

I understand why you resist the timing of the shaking of the heavens (with Satan's removal and/ or at the 6th seal).  It's because your view of when the great tribulation comes... afterwards.   I have not and did not disagree that there is (great)  tribulation that follows.   But it's because you don't see that the seals are all judgment upon Jerusalem and Israel.   I am not going to go thru that again.   The various points of view that you hold concerning "events that follow after" arise from that notion and forces you to adapt your views to conform to that point.   As long as that is your position, I cannot change your mind,  nor do I see any sense in trying to do so.   Maybe,  next Sept 30, will bring a new day. 

Blessings

The PuP 

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24 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

I can see that you agree that Hebrews 12 is a reiteration of something that is still (yet) to happen... prophecy.   Verse 27 tells us alot about when this shaking will take place. 

*[[Heb 12:27]] KJV* And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

What is unshakeable?  The kingdom of God and its fruits of righteousness.  Nothing else is mentioned  as being unshakeable.   When Paul talks about the judgement day: 

*[[1Co 3:13]] KJV* Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the DAY shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Any thing that remains (gold silver, etc) will remain because thee judgment day fires did not burn it up.   He is talking about the souls of men and the truth that we preached unto their "salvation".  

*[[1Co 3:14]] KJV* If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If the salvation that we pointed them to was Christ in them,  the hope of glory,  we will be rewarded for all those souls that we won for him.   My point is that it will be judgment day fires,  when Christ comes to judge the quick and the dead,  that will be the basis for our reward ON THAT DAY. 

FURTHERMORE,  Paul said that the things that are temporal will come to nought by the things that (currently) are not: 

*[[1Co 1:28]] KJV* And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:  That no flesh should glory in his presence.

The metamorphosis of our flesh will result in the revealing of the staying power of kingdom salvation.   It will be our unshakeable faith that will remain true in the fiery trials of life.   It is the trials of tribulation and persecution that proves that we have unshakeable faith,  worthy of the kingdom. 

The judgment of the dead (righteous first) cannot happen until both the kingdom and his appearing takes place: 

*[[2Ti 4:1]] KJV* I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Not just one or the other,  but both must be true.   Forget our differences about when Satan is cast out for a moment.   The casting out of Satan is what allows the kingdom of God to come: 

*[[Rev 12:10]] KJV* And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

I understand why you resist the timing of the shaking of the heavens (with Satan's removal and/ or at the 6th seal).  It's because your view of when the great tribulation comes... afterwards.   I have not and did not disagree that there is (great)  tribulation that follows.   But it's because you don't see that the seals are all judgment upon Jerusalem and Israel.   I am not going to go thru that again.   The various points of view that you hold concerning "events that follow after" arise from that notion and forces you to adapt your views to conform to that point.   As long as that is your position, I cannot change your mind,  nor do I see any sense in trying to do so.   Maybe,  next Sept 30, will bring a new day. 

Blessings

The PuP 

It is sure that most of man's works are here on the earth. However, we believers know, we can work for God WHILE on the earth. We can send things forward in time as in transferring things to heaven that can never be destroyed. What ever we do in His will - will remain forever, and cannot be burned. If someone is seldom in His will for their life, most or all of their work will be wood, hay, and stubble.   Our reward, as you say, will be on what the fire cannot destroy. 

We know, therefore, that fire is coming. It seems earth will be cleansed by fire. 

When He appears, He will set up His kingdom.  Therefore to me His coming (Rev. 19 will soon be followed by His kingdom. 

The judgment of the dead (righteous first) cannot happen until both the kingdom and his appearing takes place:  

We must not forget Revelation's chronology.  In thinking about this, are you talking about the Judgment seat of Christ?  Do you think that will not come until after Jesus as set up His kingdom?  Many people think it will be during our 7 years in heaven. 

who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;  I think scripture is clear, He is coming first FOR His saints, then latter WITH His saints. I believe this verse is referring to His coming WITH His saints.  If so, then it is possible that the Saints who come WITH HIM will have already been judged. 

the seals are all judgment upon Jerusalem and Israel.    Again I disagree. The first seal is the Gospel. Seals 2-4 are Satan's attempts to stop the gospel. Seal 5 are the martyrs of the church age.  How we see the seals will determine other beliefs. 

Your belief on these seals comes from pulling them out of their 1st century context. You cannot end up with truth when you do not allow context to be KING.  How could you even imagine that martyrs - those who are murdered because they love Jesus - are some kind of judgment? God is not judging martyrs! 

I cannot yet buy into the shaking of the heavens as being the ONLY shaking. I see the 7th trumpet as FAR MORE violent than the 6th seal. 

AS I see it, I am following Revelation's chronology to a T. 

Suppose I agree that the Hebrew shaking is in fact at the 6th seal. What then follows? What comes next?

 

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1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

It is sure that most of man's works are here on the earth. However, we believers know, we can work for God WHILE on the earth. We can send things forward in time as in transferring things to heaven that can never be destroyed. What ever we do in His will - will remain forever, and cannot be burned. If someone is seldom in His will for their life, most or all of their work will be wood, hay, and stubble.   Our reward, as you say, will be on what the fire cannot destroy. 

We know, therefore, that fire is coming. It seems earth will be cleansed by fire. 

When He appears, He will set up His kingdom.  Therefore to me His coming (Rev. 19 will soon be followed by His kingdom. 

The judgment of the dead (righteous first) cannot happen until both the kingdom and his appearing takes place:  

We must not forget Revelation's chronology.  In thinking about this, are you talking about the Judgment seat of Christ?  Do you think that will not come until after Jesus as set up His kingdom?  Many people think it will be during our 7 years in heaven. 

who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;  I think scripture is clear, He is coming first FOR His saints, then latter WITH His saints. I believe this verse is referring to His coming WITH His saints.  If so, then it is possible that the Saints who come WITH HIM will have already been judged. 

the seals are all judgment upon Jerusalem and Israel.    Again I disagree. The first seal is the Gospel. Seals 2-4 are Satan's attempts to stop the gospel. Seal 5 are the martyrs of the church age.  How we see the seals will determine other beliefs. 

Your belief on these seals comes from pulling them out of their 1st century context. You cannot end up with truth when you do not allow context to be KING.  How could you even imagine that martyrs - those who are murdered because they love Jesus - are some kind of judgment? God is not judging martyrs! 

I cannot yet buy into the shaking of the heavens as being the ONLY shaking. I see the 7th trumpet as FAR MORE violent than the 6th seal. 

AS I see it, I am following Revelation's chronology to a T. 

Suppose I agree that the Hebrew shaking is in fact at the 6th seal. What then follows? What comes next?

 

"It is sure that most of man's works are here on the earth. However, we believers know, we can work for God WHILE on the earth. We can send things forward in time as in transferring things to heaven that can never be destroyed. What ever we do in His will - will remain forever, and cannot be burned. If someone is seldom in His will for their life, most or all of their work will be wood, hay, and stubble.   Our reward, as you say, will be on what the fire cannot destroy. "

AGREED.   Lay up treasures in heaven that don't rot or decay. 

 

"We must not forget Revelation's chronology.  In thinking about this, are you talking about the Judgment seat of Christ?  Do you think that will not come until after Jesus as set up His kingdom?  Many people think it will be during our 7 years in heaven."

 There will be no waiting to receive our reward.   Paul said that his coming will bring a crown of (eternal) righteousness on that day.   All judgment has been given to Christ.   Resurrection of life and resurrection of damnation,  John 5:22-27.  In a moment,  in the twinkling of an eye we shall be changed.   

"the seals are all judgment upon Jerusalem and Israel.    Again I disagree. The first seal is the Gospel. Seals 2-4 are Satan's attempts to stop the gospel. Seal 5 are the martyrs of the church age.  How we see the seals will determine other beliefs. 

I would just say go back over the scriptures pointing to judgment upon Jerusalem first; Jer 25, Rom 1 & 2, Ezekiel 5,9,14,16,20,22, 30,36,37,38-9, et al.

"Your belief on these seals comes from pulling them out of their 1st century context. You cannot end up with truth when you do not allow context to be KING.  How could you even imagine that martyrs - those who are murdered because they love Jesus - are some kind of judgment? God is not judging martyrs!"

*[[Rom 8:36]] KJV* As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Need I point out that martyr means to be a faithful testimony/ witness.   The gospel spread so fast in the first century because the apostles lived the exemplary faithful life of a martyr.   There is no higher calling than to be a faithful martyr. 

"I cannot yet buy into the shaking of the heavens as being the ONLY shaking. I see the 7th trumpet as FAR MORE violent than the 6th seal. "

Remember all the talk of the resurrection of Abraham and the prophets at the 7th trumpet.  It's not a rapture,  but it is a resurrection,  complete with an earthquake.   I don't want to get sidetracked here but John's mentioning of voices, thundering,  lightning and earthquake speaks loudly to a resurrection event,  with the order of mention giving us information about where the event takes place. I agree about the 7th trumpet earthquake being bigger than the 6th seal for 2 reasons: 

1. 6th seal is not the rapture... There is a subsequent earthquake associated with that. 

2.  It is the result of the disdain found in the voice of any angry God. 

 I did  some research into this:  the rapture/ resurrecting of a billion souls would produce a seismic event of 11.0+.  

"Suppose I agree that the Hebrew shaking is in fact at the 6th seal. What then follows? What comes next?"

Where else in the book of Revelation do you find choice words about shaking heaven? 

*[[Rev 6:13]] KJV* And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

*[[Rev 6:14]] KJV* And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

*[[Isa 34:4]] KJV* And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Blessings

The PuP 

Adding this about martyrs:

Bring back to your remembrance that the seals are judgments upon Jerusalem.   When Jesus spoke of the AOD, he specifically said to flee to the mountains beforehand.   These martyrs will be faithful witnesses to the whole sum of Israelites that are there.  Remember the tribe of Dan,  who is not included in the 12 sealed tribes? 

*[[Gen 49:16]] KJV* Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.

Whether it's the tribe of Dan or not,  there will be an host of faithful witnesses in Jerusalem when they are scattered into the 4 winds.   Want to be a missionary? Lol.

Blessings

Edited by Da Puppers
Added last paragraph.

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2 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

"It is sure that most of man's works are here on the earth. However, we believers know, we can work for God WHILE on the earth. We can send things forward in time as in transferring things to heaven that can never be destroyed. What ever we do in His will - will remain forever, and cannot be burned. If someone is seldom in His will for their life, most or all of their work will be wood, hay, and stubble.   Our reward, as you say, will be on what the fire cannot destroy. "

AGREED.   Lay up treasures in heaven that don't rot or decay. 

 

"We must not forget Revelation's chronology.  In thinking about this, are you talking about the Judgment seat of Christ?  Do you think that will not come until after Jesus as set up His kingdom?  Many people think it will be during our 7 years in heaven."

 There will be no waiting to receive our reward.   Paul said that his coming will bring a crown of (eternal) righteousness on that day.   All judgment has been given to Christ.   Resurrection of life and resurrection of damnation,  John 5:22-27.  In a moment,  in the twinkling of an eye we shall be changed.   

"the seals are all judgment upon Jerusalem and Israel.    Again I disagree. The first seal is the Gospel. Seals 2-4 are Satan's attempts to stop the gospel. Seal 5 are the martyrs of the church age.  How we see the seals will determine other beliefs. 

I would just say go back over the scriptures pointing to judgment upon Jerusalem first; Jer 25, Rom 1 & 2, Ezekiel 5,9,14,16,20,22, 30,36,37,38-9, et al.

"Your belief on these seals comes from pulling them out of their 1st century context. You cannot end up with truth when you do not allow context to be KING.  How could you even imagine that martyrs - those who are murdered because they love Jesus - are some kind of judgment? God is not judging martyrs!"

*[[Rom 8:36]] KJV* As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Need I point out that martyr means to be a faithful testimony/ witness.   The gospel spread so fast in the first century because the apostles lived the exemplary faithful life of a martyr.   There is no higher calling than to be a faithful martyr. 

"I cannot yet buy into the shaking of the heavens as being the ONLY shaking. I see the 7th trumpet as FAR MORE violent than the 6th seal. "

Remember all the talk of the resurrection of Abraham and the prophets at the 7th trumpet.  It's not a rapture,  but it is a resurrection,  complete with an earthquake.   I don't want to get sidetracked here but John's mentioning of voices, thundering,  lightning and earthquake speaks loudly to a resurrection event,  with the order of mention giving us information about where the event takes place. I agree about the 7th trumpet earthquake being bigger than the 6th seal for 2 reasons: 

1. 6th seal is not the rapture... There is a subsequent earthquake associated with that. 

2.  It is the result of the disdain found in the voice of any angry God. 

 I did  some research into this:  the rapture/ resurrecting of a billion souls would produce a seismic event of 11.0+.  

"Suppose I agree that the Hebrew shaking is in fact at the 6th seal. What then follows? What comes next?"

Where else in the book of Revelation do you find choice words about shaking heaven? 

*[[Rev 6:13]] KJV* And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

*[[Rev 6:14]] KJV* And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

*[[Isa 34:4]] KJV* And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Blessings

The PuP 

Adding this about martyrs:

Bring back to your remembrance that the seals are judgments upon Jerusalem.   When Jesus spoke of the AOD, he specifically said to flee to the mountains beforehand.   These martyrs will be faithful witnesses to the whole sum of Israelites that are there.  Remember the tribe of Dan,  who is not included in the 12 sealed tribes? 

*[[Gen 49:16]] KJV* Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.

Whether it's the tribe of Dan or not,  there will be an host of faithful witnesses in Jerusalem when they are scattered into the 4 winds.   Want to be a missionary? Lol.

Blessings

It may sound nice that the events of the Sun and moon as written in Matthew 24 take place at the 6th seal. Millions now believe this, and call themselves prewrath. All I can say is, the rapture will come BEFORE the 6th seal, but JUST before, and Jesus will escort us back to heaven. He will come again just as shown, AFTER the days of GT, as shown in Rev. 19. 

This is John's chronology and it is truth. 
 

WOW! I have never thought about how big the earthquake would be - I just knew it would be a worldwide earthquake. I very much believe it IS the 6th seal earthquake - and Paul's sudden destruction, caused when God brings together the bodies of the dead in Christs.

Edited by iamlamad

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12 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It may sound nice that the events of the Sun and moon as written in Matthew 24 take place at the 6th seal. Millions now believe this, and call themselves prewrath. All I can say is, the rapture will come BEFORE the 6th seal, but JUST before, and Jesus will escort us back to heaven. He will come again just as shown, AFTER the days of GT, as shown in Rev. 19. 

This is John's chronology and it is truth. 
 

WOW! I have never thought about how big the earthquake would be - I just knew it would be a worldwide earthquake. I very much believe it IS the 6th seal earthquake - and Paul's sudden destruction, caused when God brings together the bodies of the dead in Christs.

*[[Rev 16:18]] KJV* And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

How would you then explain this being the biggest? 

The PuP 

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4 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

*[[Rev 16:18]] KJV* And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

How would you then explain this being the biggest? 

The PuP 

That is VERY easy to explain: that is when God raises the Old Testament saints  - on the last day - as Jesus said several times. Many of these will be people from before the flood. It is going to cause an incredible earthquake!

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