Guest Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: it was hyperbole. No one had reached South America, Central America, North America, China, Korea, Japan, Austraila, and several parts of Europe had not been reached. Paul, himself, never left the confines of the Roman Empire. What about all the believers at Pentecost from all the nations who returned to their homelands? "Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven." (Acts 2:5) Edited October 22, 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Badjao33 said: What about all the believers at Pentecost from all the nations who returned to their homelands? "Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven." (Acts 2:5) That was only 16 different nations. Again, more hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: That was only 16 different nations. Again, more hyperbole. I'm going to take the Bible for what it says and not add to what's there. Jesus said to take the gospel to the world. Paul said it went into all the world and to every creature under Heaven. Jesus said He would return after this was done, He also told some that they would be alive to see Him return in all His glory and others within their generation. I'm going to go with He returned spiritually, especially when He told people His Kingdom could not be seen and was not of this realm. I think too many Christians today are making the same mistake the scribes, Pharisees, and most Jews were making 2,000 years ago when they were looking for a worldly political redemption of Israel and a worldly king when their Messiah came based on their understanding of the scriptures at that time. In my opinion, a loving God wouldn't keep His people waiting for 2,000 years with every passing generation believing they were living in the last days only to die with it never happening. That would be rather cruel actually. I don't think that the 40 years between Jesus' ministry on earth and the destruction of the temple was a coincidence either. I think it was in direct relation to the 40 years that Israel wandered in the wilderness. I know many don't agree with my position, but when you take the Bible at face value and don't try to come up with theories, excuses, and ideas as to why we are still waiting 2,000 years later for Christ's return, the picture becomes more clear. Edited October 22, 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, Badjao33 said: I'm going to take the Bible for what it says and not add to what's there. Jesus said to take the gospel to the world. Paul said it went into all the world and to every creature under Heaven. And we know from history that every country under heaven had not been reached and that Paul was simply using hyperbole, a figure of speech. There were many, many countries that had not been reached at that point. Quote Jesus said He would return after this was done, He also told some that they would be alive to see Him return in all His glory and others within their generation. Jesus did not say that. That is a misquote of what Jesus said. And "generation" doesn't mean "in your lifetime." Quote I'm going to go with He returned spiritually, especially when He told people His Kingdom could not be seen and was not of this realm. Except that prophecy is never fulfilled spiritually. There is not one example of fulfilled prophecy that was never fulfilled literally. His kingdom is not OF this world. But His Kingdom will be IN This world, literally. Quote I think too many Christians today are making the same mistake the scribes, Pharisees, and most Jews were making 2,000 years ago when they were looking for a worldly political redemption of Israel and a worldly king when their Messiah came based on their understanding of the scriptures at that time. In my opinion, a loving God wouldn't keep His people waiting for 2,000 years with every passing generation believing they were living in the last days only to die with it never happening. That would be rather cruel actually. The Bible only ever teaches a literal return of Jesus and a literal Kingdom of Jesus on the earth. Quote I don't think that the 40 years between Jesus' ministry on earth and the destruction of the temple was a coincidence either. I think it was in direct relation to the 40 years that Israel wandered in the wilderness. Which is just you making stuff up, not actual, biblical truth. You just cook something up to believe, but can't actually support it with scripture and that is a very useless and subjective approach to the Bible. You might as well be Harold Camping or someone else who just makes stuff up out of whole cloth and then tries to project it on to the Bible. Quote I know many don't agree with my position, but when you take the Bible at face value and don't try to come up with theories, excuses, and ideas as to why we are still waiting 2,000 years later for Christ's return, the picture becomes more clear. Peter had a response to that kind of nonsense: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? (2Pe 3:3-12) We don't agree with YOUR position, because your position is not based on competent hermeneutics or exegesis; it's just what you have cooked up on your own. And to people like you, Peter would say that the Lords' return isn't delayed at all. It has a set time, in order to give people time to come to repentance. And given that Peter's description above hasn't happened yet, we can pretty assured that your view is wrong. You can trust in your homemade theology if you want, but we will trust in the sure words of Scripture, the word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Davida said: Seems to me, it is Biblically correct to be calling these false teachings and heresy according to the dictionary. heresy [her-uh-see] 1 . opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, especially of a church or religious system. 2. the maintaining of such an opinion or doctrine. 3. any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established orthodox doctrine If this is your benchmark for heresy, then not only me, but everyone posting in this thread is a heretic. Orthodox Christianity pretty much teaches that the kingdom of Christ is now eternal in the believers and that glory of the believers shall be manifested after the resurrection. They don't believe in any of the end times things that American evangelicals believe. These are just a couple of examples, but you will not find any of the early Church fathers agreeing to what is preached today in America about the end times. The End of Time Is Probably Not What You Think https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2017/08/01/end-time-probably-not-think/ On the Fearful Day of the Lord and the Future Judgment http://sgpm.goarch.org/Monastery/?p=46 42 minutes ago, Davida said: NO, Wrong, you NEVER believed like me, or Shiloh or Frienduff. You never had our same testimonies. No, really, everything you guys are saying I once believed. I gave my life to Christ by accepting Him at a Baptist crusade. Attended Baptist churches, sometimes Pentecostal if the girl I was dating at the time was part of that crowd, Methodist church sometimes because that's where my Father eventually ended up and that's what I eventually classified myself as. I believed in the exact same end times theology you do today. I was a strong supporter of Israel and even had a pen holder on my desk with an American and Israeli flag sticking out on it. I have some pictures of me at my desk back in the states. I'll have to post one if I ever get back that way to prove it. I even had the same political views and I'm still a registered Republican and used to be a member of the Rockingham County Tea Party Association in my home state. We didn't used to be that much different. Edited October 22, 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow with a shirt on Posted October 22, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 65 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted October 22, 2018 We should all speak LIFE to one another.. we all do things that may not be alike..the result of things done may or may not appear alike as well..we must not come to a conclusion of one's faith due to Our belief in our own..we need to make sure we stay in close with Christ, every moment..Our desire for the Lord will lead to a chat with him...He will do what HE Will...peace be with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Badjao33 said: If this is your benchmark for heresy, then not only me, but everyone posting in this thread is a heretic. Orthodox Christianity pretty much teaches that the kingdom of Christ is now eternal in the believers and that glory of the believers shall be manifested after the resurrection. They don't believe in any of the end times things that American evangelicals believe. These are just a couple of examples, but you will not find any of the early Church fathers agreeing to what is preached today in America about the end times. The End of Time Is Probably Not What You Think https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2017/08/01/end-time-probably-not-think/ On the Fearful Day of the Lord and the Future Judgment http://sgpm.goarch.org/Monastery/?p=46 Orthodox Christianity is not biblical Christianity and teaches salvation works. The early church fathers were wrong about a lot of stuff and they were flaming anti-Semites to boot. The early church fathers had no measurable effect on the growth of the early church. I would not the early church fathers or the Orthodox church as barometers for what is true, biblically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, maryjayne said: well, the Anglican community has 85 million members world wide, all believing in the Apostles Cred, including the bit about Jesus coming again to judge the living and the dead. What do they teach about the rapture and the tribulation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, maryjayne said: what has that got to do with your assertion that Jesus Second Coming was in 70AD? and that that is mainstream teaching? I'm just trying to make the point that what many in this thread believe is also considered to be heresy by most Christians outside of the American evangelical community. Why should we believe a theology that got it's start in the United States in the early 1800's and really only took off following the Israeli-Arab war in 1967? Did God give a special revelation to Christians in the United States? I don't think so. It was only after Hal Lindsey came out with the book “The Late Great Planet Earth” and then the “Left Behind” series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins that this end times theology became mainstream in the Evangelical church in the US. Today there are countless websites, evangelists, movies and videos all pushing this end times doctrine which really came out of nowhere and only became popular in modern times. In most of the Christian world, the American version of the end times is seen as nothing but fantasy. I only believed the American end times version of events because I was born into it and pretty much everyone I grew up with had the same point of view. Do I have it all figured out now with the way I believe? No. Will I ever? Probably not. At least not until I am in my glorified body serving Christ in Heaven anyway. So did the early Church father's have everything right? Although they were living closer to the actual events, they too probably didn't, so how much more for Christians living almost 2,000 years after the fact? The Truth no doubt lies somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, maryjayne said: eg. two gospels The fact that churches today still teach a works salvation proves that there were two messages. Where would they get that idea from to begin with if there wasn't? And why is it so hard to believe that there wouldn't be a specific message sent to the Jews and another to the gentiles? After all, the Jews had always been held to a different standard than the rest of the world and were the only people that had a covenant with God. 25 minutes ago, maryjayne said: Jesus second coming already happened in 70AD After spending most of two years of nothing but Bible reading and ministry after coming to Christ, taking the Bible at face value makes more sense to me. To believe the way I do nothing has to be added and no explanations as to why we would still be waiting on Christ's return 2,000 years later are needed. I can see and feel His presence around me and see His work being done in the world, so I believe His return was always meant to be spiritual. 25 minutes ago, maryjayne said: no need for repentance for those saved Repentance from unbelief is required for salvation and once we are born again the repentance from our sins continues. Only instead of us working on our own and trying to do it our self, it is Christ in us that makes it possible. 25 minutes ago, maryjayne said: the Bible is not the Word of God I see nowhere in scripture that would lead me to believe that the Bible is the word of God. 25 minutes ago, maryjayne said: not some trivial doctrinal disagreements on point of little importance With respect to our salvation none of the above issues matter. It does matter how we believe though because it has a direct affect on how we view the world and our relationships with others. If we believe that the end is near and the world is getting worse as a result, then we are going to have a pessimistic attitude and not be able to live the life God want's us to live for Him in the here and now. We don't need to put our hope in future events, because our hope is found in Jesus Christ. Whether He returned in 70 AD or He doesn't return for another 2,000 years it matters not because we are in Christ today and our eternal life began the day we were saved. Edited October 23, 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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