I asked Jesus what must i do to go into heaven

[Omegaman 3.0]

5 minutes ago, Davida said:

Not surprised by your comments Omega. 

Good, then that means I am consistent. I am also a man of my word. Your response is off topic, you have lost your privilege to post in this thread.

[Omegaman 3.0]

2 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

So now because you cannot control the conversation that you ban people from topics? Yet, you unabashedly slam the pre-tribulation and free will positions and those who hold them.

Worthy's lampstand was removed due to the failure of the mod/admin team to take the word of God SERIOUSLY.  Not just your "pet positions", but the admonition that ALL of Scripture is God breathed, that there is only ONE Gospel, that there will be a Second Coming and a Millennial Kingdom, and that GOD DOESN'T PLAY GAMES.

 

While ignoring those who promote doctrine which has been demonstrated to be unbliblical.

You seem to have no issue with the other group that goes around here and promotes seventh-day adventism, mid and post-trib rapture, and the Bible 'containing the word of God but NOT being in whole the word of God".

Also, since you decided to use it as a last swipe at Davida (apparently, moderators can vacillate all over a topic but members cannot,  double standard much?), I am going to address it in short here:

If you did the actual research and didn't just listen to populist theory, Darby was not the one who came up with Pre-trib.  As a point of fact: a sermon by Ephraim of Nisibius (306-373 AD), which was uncovered by grant Jeffery in 1997, was written over one thousand years before Darby or Mary MacDonald were even born. What this document demonstrates is that the early church believed in the pre-trib rapture.

So, before you begin taking swipes at others, perhaps you should make sure of your own position before telling others they are wrong.

If not, then consider stepping down as moderator. And if George is not going to take any of this seriously, then he should consider closing this board, seeing as he hardly has time for it anymore. Let alone the Lord has closed the door for Worthy, since it has demonstrated itself UNWORTHY.

-Sojourner414, removing self from thread.

 

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So now because you cannot control the conversation that you ban people from topics? Yet, you unabashedly slam the pre-tribulation and free will positions and those who hold them.

and here I thought I was pretty clear,  guess not. I do not need to control the conversation, I "need' the people in it, to control themselves, and follow the terms of service they agreed to, and to just stay on topic. If the want to discuss why they think that preterism is false, the are free to do so, in a thread about preterism. In fact, if they cannot find one, they are free to start on of their own.

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Worthy's lampstand was removed due to the failure of the mod/admin team to take the word of God SERIOUSLY.  Not just your "pet positions", but the admonition that ALL of Scripture is God breathed, that there is only ONE Gospel, that there will be a Second Coming and a Millennial Kingdom, and that GOD DOESN'T PLAY GAMES.

Whatever that is supposed to mean, I have no clue. Who exactly you perceive yourself to be to say such things, is also unclear. I agree that there is one gospel, and preterism or denying it, is not the gospel. All scripture is God breathed, but not all interpretations of it are. Sure, there will be a second coming, and a millenial Kingdom, as far as I know, all of the moderators hold that position, so I am not sure why you even bring that up.

I am also, not sure why you say I unabashedly slam the pre-trib position. I do however, hold to the Historic Pre-millenial view of the church, that is true, and that position does hold that there is a second coming, after the tribulation, just as Jesus and the epistles teach, and the church held for 1800 years, (even longer) since it was not until the introduction of the Scofield Reference Bible into U.S. seminaries, that  dispensationalism and a pre-trib rapture even became popular. Preiviously, it was all but unheard of. Those seminarians eventually became pastor/teachers in the churches of America, and it grew from there. To be honest though, eschatology was not that common of a topic to that point. You speak of pet theories, well, those were just the pet theories of Cyrus Scofield, in other words, the teach of a man (not the Bible) as commentary in the Bible that bore his name.

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While ignoring those who promote doctrine which has been demonstrated to be unbliblical.

That is not really the job of moderators. That is why this is a discussion forum, others are able to chime in a refute other on topics. This is not a club for those who hold only specific views, where discussion is silenced for those who do not comform. It certainly is not a club, where the moderators are here to silence those who do not agree with Sojourner414, but fell free to present honest and respectful debate, IN THE APPROPRIATE thread, this is not it. Seriously, this should not be difficult to understand.

I do not have an issue, with those who care to voice those things, or even Roman Catholicism, even Mormonism, Islam, Jehovah's witnesses, Atheism, the occult, etc, as long as it is honest, not attempting to convert others to false beliefs. This is, after all a discussion forum, not a church. It is proper, to speak the truth, even though some will not hear it, many will not like it. 

However, what is our (moderators) job, is to maintain so sort of order, which is difficult when people insist on changing the topic of a thread, midstream, to suit their own agendas. When people post things (like even the post to which I am now responding) it takes us off task, and we cannot minister to those who need it. Those who refuse to accept some direction, and discuss things where they belong, are working against the ministry, and are not being helpful at all.

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You seem to have no issue with the other group that goes around here and promotes seventh-day adventism, mid and post-trib rapture, and the Bible 'containing the word of God but NOT being in whole the word of God".

7th Day Adventists, at least affirm the virgin birth, Jesus sinless life, His death on the cross for the forgiveness of sins, His bodily resurrection. How much fuss you I make about that? I don't speak much to the mid-trib rapture, other than to say, that I do not see it in scripture. Why would I speak against the post-trib position, that is what Jesus and the Epistles, and almost the whole church has taught, so I will not apologize for not speaking against them, what would I say?

I am well aware that your pet doctrine is a pre-trib rapture Sojourner. I do not hold that you are a heretic, just because you cannot demonstrate it from the "whole word of God". You are free to state that position here on the forums, we even have a thread for that in particular. This, is not the thread though.

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Also, since you decided to use it as a last swipe at Davida (apparently, moderators can vacillate all over a topic but members cannot, double standard much?), 

Somewhat, yes. The vacillating I did, was in an effort to restore order to the thread. It has a purpose in keeping with what this forum is for, polite and orderly discussion of topics in thread about that the topic. I suppose I could just, instead of allowing of topic posts to remain where they can still be read, I could just have deleted those posts. That is a lot of work, but does nothing to cure the problem, it only removes the symptom.

Yes, I have allowed you to draw me off topic also, and I think it would not be fair, not to respond to your detailed, thought out and well written post. It is for for your benefit, and those who read this thread, to understand what the problem is, and how to avoid it in the future. Stay on topic, and things are smooth. Need to comment off topic, then to it where your comment is on topic. Very easy, no muss, not fuss, no drama.

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If you did the actual research and didn't just listen to populist theory, Darby was not the one who came up with Pre-trib.  As a point of fact: a sermon by Ephraim of Nisibius (306-373 AD), which was uncovered by grant Jeffery in 1997, was written over one thousand years before Darby or Mary MacDonald were even born.

 

You seem to assume that I am not aware of Grant Jeffrey, t would be mistaken, or Ephraim's sermon. I am also aware of the problems in what Mr. Jeffrey claims about it. You seem to have failed to notice, that I did not say that Darby invented the pre-trib rapture, I just said that it was his writings and preaching, that ultimately led to it becoming popular. Perhaps read what i actually say, not what you think I might mean.

I did not say that there was no one that believed in a pre-trib rapture. If you will recall, I was only mentioned it in this thread, not because of it as a topic, but because it demonstrates what can and cannot be considered a heresy, if you use orthodoxy as the standard by which heresy is determined. I could have done the same with what was actually declared the Arminian heresy, of those who rejected "Calvinism" (those that was not even a term at the time probably).

Since you decided to bring it up again, still off topic, I said the the pre-trib rapture was not the teaching of widespread beleive of the church before Darby, and that was true. On guy here or there, who are not speakers for the church nor even well known theologians, are not evidence to the contrary, in fact, the are proof that they are the exceptions to what is 'normal'.

By the way, if was not Mary MacDonald, it was Margaret MacDonald. For what it is worth, I never said that she was a source of the pre-trib rapture theory. When I read her vision/dream, I did not even see a pre-trib rapture in it, so that would be silly of me to suggest otherwise. Just maybe, I have done more actual research than you give me credit for. They only way anyone even knows about Grant and his "uncovering" is if they go to pre-trib biased websites or other sources, or sources that quote them. People who spend time reading Rapture Ready or other such sites, are what, doing actual research?  

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What this document demonstrates is that the early church believed in the pre-trib rapture.

Hardly! What this document proves is that one guy in the early church believed in the pre-trib rapture theory, IF his writing was even correctly translated.

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So, before you begin taking swipes at others, perhaps you should make sure of your own position before telling others they are wrong.

If not, then consider stepping down as moderator. And if George is not going to take any of this seriously, then he should consider closing this board, seeing as he hardly has time for it anymore. Let alone the Lord has closed the door for Worthy, since it has demonstrated itself UNWORTHY.

 

Well, I am sure of my own position. That is to say, I know what my position is. That is of course, different that knowing that my position is correct. Since you added thoughts I never said, it is apparent that you are not familiar with my position, or you would not have (more or less) misrepresented it. Mind you, I know you would not do that intentionally, people get caught up in the momentum of their passion. If you had not passion about it, I would have less respect for you response. I am glad that you care about these things, and take the time to defend those who you believe to be in the right.

You would not be the first to have suggested that I should step down as a moderator. I am a temporary feature here, George can ask me to go anytime, and God can make certain that I do, whenever He chooses. Since I am still here, for now, I am inclined to assume, that I am supposed to be here. Get back to me, if/when you have any actual evidence of my wrong doing, or conduct, or mistakes, that would suggest that I ought to take my leave of Worthy, just do not do it in this thread, as again, I am NOT the topic.

Good bye for now!

[Guest shiloh357]

9 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

The fact that churches today still teach a works salvation proves that there were two messages.

No, it does not prove that at all.   

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Where would they get that idea from to begin with if there wasn't?

From ignoring what the Scriptures actually say.  And from a desire to control how other people live.   Those who have a works-based theology also have cult-like tendencies.  For example:  Church of Christ and Apostolic Pentecostals that have a works-based system of righteousness also tend to believe that they are the only ones who are saved.   Works-based theology isn't as concerned about salvation as they are about control.

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And why is it so hard to believe that there wouldn't be a specific message sent to the Jews and another to the gentiles?

Because the Bible is always consistent.   It has only one consistent message sent to the world and that message is the same where it comes to salvation, in particular.   The types and the shadows that were provided to Israel regarding salvation were ALWAYS  pictures of salvation by grace through faith.   There are no types and shadows of a works-based salvation message anywhere in the Old Testament.   This is true whether you are talking about the biblical covenants, the sacrifices, or the annual festivals and the Sabbaths.   In all of those things, we find salvation by grace through faith and not by works. 

The archetype of redemption was the Exodus from Egypt on Passover and the children of Israel had to put faith in ONE thing:  The blood of the Passover Lamb.   The Lamb was the Passover.   It was the blood of the Passover Lamb ALONE that saved them.   They were not saved by keeping the Law of the Moses.  The Law of Moses was given AFTER they were saved.   The Law is only ever given to a redeemed community.  It is never presented anywhere as being a condition for salvation.

If Jesus were teaching salvation by works, and was asked where in the OT salvation by works is found as a basis for salvation, what part of the OT would Jesus have pointed to?   He would have no place in the OT show salvation by works, which means that Jesus would have been out of step with the entire inspired OT that taught salvation by grace through faith.   

 

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After spending most of two years of nothing but Bible reading and ministry after coming to Christ, taking the Bible at face value makes more sense to me

So when Jesus said, "if your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off,"  do you take those at face value?  Should Christians maim themselves when they sin or should they read that passage a little differently?

When Jesus said "I am the door,"  Does that mean he is a piece of wood with hinges, or is that a figurative device?

Taking the Bible at face value is a subjective standard that relies on the reader to assign certain values to the text and essentially supply the meaning of the text.    

Many people confuse taking the Bible "literally"  with taking the Bible at "face value."   Literalism is objective and is based on the rules of literary analysis that we call hermeneutics.   Face value approaches are very subjective and very wooden in how they approach a text and do not actually take the purpose of the author of the text into account.

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. To believe the way I do nothing has to be added and no explanations as to why we would still be waiting on Christ's return 2,000 years later are needed. I can see and feel His presence around me and see His work being done in the world, so I believe His return was always meant to be spiritual. 

The explanations for why we are waiting on the return of Jesus are simple and biblical and writings of John including his epistles, the book of Revelation and the Gospel of John were all written late, between 90-100 AD.   So the fact that no mention is made of Jesus' return having already happened in those writings, means that His return was still future from their perspective and from the perspective of the early church fathers who commented on the book of Revelation being written during the time of Domitian.

And it is worth noting that prophecy is NEVER fulfilled spiritually.    Every fulfilled prophecy we have on record thus far, were always fulfilled literally.   All 300 of the prophesies about Jesus first coming were fulfilled literally.    All of the types and shadows were fulfilled literally.    The reason we can attest to the reliability of the Bible is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.   Literal fulfillment can and has been documented historically and stands as evidence of the trustworthiness of the Bible.   It is tangible evidence that we can show the world. 

Spiritual fulfillment is nonsense and doesn't follow the pattern we have set for us in the Bible. 

 

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Repentance from unbelief is required for salvation and once we are born again the repentance from our sins continues. Only instead of us working on our own and trying to do it our self, it is Christ in us that makes it possible. 

But we still repent of our sins and the enablement is called "conviction." 

 

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I see nowhere in scripture that would lead me to believe that the Bible is the word of God. 

And that only drives home the problem with your theology. 

 

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With respect to our salvation none of the above issues matter.

They all matter quite a bit, particularly when people start thinking that they can take a subjective, purely humanistic (they call "spiritual") approach to interpreting the Bible. 

 

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It does matter how we believe though because it has a direct affect on how we view the world and our relationships with others. If we believe that the end is near and the world is getting worse as a result, then we are going to have a pessimistic attitude and not be able to live the life God want's us to live for Him in the here and now.

Which is not true at all. Teh fact that we know Jesus is coming and this world will get worse and worst and one day disappear from existence doesn't make us pessimistic at all.  The fact that we see it getting worse only tells us that our redemption is getting closer and closer and we will be with Jesus.   And there is an urgency share the Gospel to that end.    

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We don't need to put our hope in future events, because our hope is found in Jesus Christ. Whether He returned in 70 AD or He doesn't return for another 2,000 years it matters not because we are in Christ today and our eternal life began the day we were saved.

The Bible refers to the appearance of Jesus as our blessed hope so yes, we have hope in future events.   And it matters a lot. Mature Christians have hope for the future and put hope in future events like the 2nd coming precisely because their hope is in Jesus. 

[enoob57]

[Your closest friendnt]

On 10/13/2018 at 3:33 PM, mynickname said:

He told me to obey Him. He said obey My teachings and obey Me, do everything I tell you and you will live. He told me i must stay with Him and obey Him until the end.

The OP said : 

I asked Jesus what I must do to go to Heaven.

And Jesus gave him the above answer. 

In his reply according to the OP  Jesus never in his answer said: 

That's how you go to Heaven, or if you don't do what I am asking, you are going to Hell. 

Jesus said in the OP's

Obey my teachings. 

Obey me. Do everything I tell you and you will live.

"and you will live". 

I need to repeat my self. 

Jesus answer did not address the question, Jesus answer was an invitation, it seems the same invitation he gave to the disciples in the parable of the vine:

I am the vine , my Father is the one who takes care of the vine.and you are the branches if you abide in the vine. 

Abide in the vine to have life in the vine...and bring the fruit of the vine. 

At the same time Jesus did not ignore the question. 

The answer to the question was to follow him when he Jesus will guide him and asked him to read Paul's epistles to understand that the position of a believer in him is in high places, sitted with him in Heavenly places...

So if he was asking Jesus this question as a believer, he will find out that he did not have to do anything to go to Heaven, because as a believer he had inherit among other things a place in Heaven. 

Jesus intented to guide him to understand Heaven by faith alone so by establishing him in the right doctrine, "Saved by Grace through faith, is a gift that is not earn, is imputed on the believer", 

Then by the OP advancing this truth he will bring fruit forth, the fruit of the vine. 

Without judging those who bring forth the fruit of their teacher's who want to add works as an added insurance just in case. 

Just to be double certain , which indicates the need to served an uncertainty. 

But We must be of those who are certain in the Rock of our Salvation.  

And not to serve uncertainties and doubts, and seek a double insurance. 

Or to overcome our fear of going to Hell by keeping our eyes not on just our faith on the REDEEMER but also on our works. 

 

 

[Heleadethme]

Rom 10:9-10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; AND with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Notice here how confessing Jesus with our mouth is usually the first “work” that we do after coming to faith in Him…….unto salvation….faith alive and so bearing that fruit.  Understand what “works” the bible is talking about…..works is  how we live, and whatever we DO or don’t do for His sake that proceeds from our faith in Him…….acts of obedience, resisting temptation, alms-giving, doing good, being honest, doing to others as we would have them do to us….etc.   Not to earn salvation out of self-righteousness like a Pharisee, but as a result of salvation as others have said, and because of knowing and loving the Lord and partaking of His Spirit and nature in us.  Faith and works go hand in hand, but the carnal mind cannot perceive this…..the carnal mind wants to compartmentalize everything and splice and dice what doesn’t need to be and shouldn’t be.

 

Jas 2:18-24

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

As believers and followers of Christ, we are to bring forth fruits meet for repentance.  God is not mocked…if anyone continues to live like sinful carnal men/women after they believe then that is not the narrow way that leads to life.

 

1Co 6:7-9

Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

 

So here is an example of long suffering and forgiving wrongs being a “work”, as well as being honest and not defrauding is a work.

So, yes, we do need to obey Jesus and remain in Him….and if we do that means there will be works of some kind….. in order to inherit the kingdom of God and eternal life.  Just as Jesus faithfully and truthfully told the OP.

[Your closest friendnt]

4 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Rom 10:9-10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; AND with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Notice here how confessing Jesus with our mouth is usually the first “work” that we do after coming to faith in Him…….unto salvation….faith alive and so bearing that fruit.  Understand what “works” the bible is talking about…..works is  how we live, and whatever we DO or don’t do for His sake that proceeds from our faith in Him…….acts of obedience, resisting temptation, alms-giving, doing good, being honest, doing to others as we would have them do to us….etc.   Not to earn salvation out of self-righteousness like a Pharisee, but as a result of salvation as others have said, and because of knowing and loving the Lord and partaking of His Spirit and nature in us.  Faith and works go hand in hand, but the carnal mind cannot perceive this…..the carnal mind wants to compartmentalize everything and splice and dice what doesn’t need to be and shouldn’t be.

 

Jas 2:18-24

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

As believers and followers of Christ, we are to bring forth fruits meet for repentance.  God is not mocked…if anyone continues to live like sinful carnal men/women after they believe then that is not the narrow way that leads to life.

 

1Co 6:7-9

Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

 

So here is an example of long suffering and forgiving wrongs being a “work”, as well as being honest and not defrauding is a work.

So, yes, we do need to obey Jesus and remain in Him….and if we do that means there will be works of some kind….. in order to inherit the kingdom of God and eternal life.  Just as Jesus faithfully and truthfully told the OP.

I am not sure what you advocate because it seems that one time you advocate for been Saved from the judgement of Hell by believing in Jesus Christ, by our faith in him, and not just an abstract faith or faith in God. 

Because if someone has an absract faith and includes his good works, that includes his good lifestyle, and even if he in addition to that he believed in God, that it won't help him to avoid Hell. 

For various reasons, one of them is that the Devil is the most happy and the most proud and the most boastful when he takes to Hell the good and upright moral living and charitable people, those even who put down their lives to saved others. 

Even thought they had faith in karma or faith Good and love and justice even faith in God. 

But they did not have the righteousness of God in Jesus CHRIST.

Without the righteousness of Jesus Christ no one is going to Heaven .

As the scripture you have posted points to .

"With the heart man believes unto righteousness", making reference to believe in Jesus Christ. 

Having the righteousness before the confession., as to give the right to Jesus Christ to justify everyone by their faith  in him that he died and payed the price for the forgivness of our sins. 

Putting to shame those who tried by strange ways to take the confession of some in a cruel and torturous way by cutting off their tonges. Tormenting with the thought that they cannot be Saved from Hell, if that what it means the word "Saved"by your confession , in this context. 

Or Saved in General from aflictions of this world, . as of the torment and the fear of going to Hell, afflictions of the Soul and spirit. 

By believing in our heart we do not only have the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ, but we also have his Eternal Life and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit and a Heavenly inheritance and a Heavenly position.

Works in the Mosaic Law it include many things , it includes the cleansing rituals, which without them one cannot be considered clean to keep the Holidays , and participate in the sacrifices, and that included keeping the Sabbath according to the Jewish calendar as it was celebrated at the same time as in Jerusalem.   

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

Rom 10:9-10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; AND with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Notice here how confessing Jesus with our mouth is usually the first “work” that we do after coming to faith in Him…….unto salvation….faith alive and so bearing that fruit.  Understand what “works” the bible is talking about…..works is  how we live, and whatever we DO or don’t do for His sake that proceeds from our faith in Him…….acts of obedience, resisting temptation, alms-giving, doing good, being honest, doing to others as we would have them do to us….etc.   Not to earn salvation out of self-righteousness like a Pharisee, but as a result of salvation as others have said, and because of knowing and loving the Lord and partaking of His Spirit and nature in us.  Faith and works go hand in hand, but the carnal mind cannot perceive this…..the carnal mind wants to compartmentalize everything and splice and dice what doesn’t need to be and shouldn’t be.

Yeah, that has been the point we are making.  Faith and works are two wings of the same bird.  Our faith is seen in what we do.   People know we are genuine believers through what they see in us AFTER we are saved.   No one is saved by what they do. 

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Jas 2:18-24

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

As believers and followers of Christ, we are to bring forth fruits meet for repentance.  God is not mocked…if anyone continues to live like sinful carnal men/women after they believe then that is not the narrow way that leads to life.

 

That is correct. 

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1Co 6:7-9

Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

 

So here is an example of long suffering and forgiving wrongs being a “work”, as well as being honest and not defrauding is a work.

So, yes, we do need to obey Jesus and remain in Him….and if we do that means there will be works of some kind….. in order to inherit the kingdom of God and eternal life.  Just as Jesus faithfully and truthfully told the OP.

 

Jesus did not tell the OP anything.   What the OP got was not from Jesus because we are not saved by what we do.    We inherit the Kingdom of God and eternal life by virtue of our faith in Jesus, not by anything we do.    Eternal  life is a gift, not a reward.   It is not something we earn. 

[Heleadethme]

50 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am not sure what you advocate because it seems that one time you advocate for been Saved from the judgement of Hell by believing in Jesus Christ, by our faith in him, and not just an abstract faith or faith in God. 

Because if someone has an absract faith and includes his good works, that includes his good lifestyle, and even if he in addition to that he believed in God, that it won't help him to avoid Hell. 

For various reasons, one of them is that the Devil is the most happy and the most proud and the most boastful when he takes to Hell the good and upright moral living and charitable people, those even who put down their lives to saved others. 

Even thought they had faith in karma or faith Good and love and justice even faith in God. 

But they did not have the righteousness of God in Jesus CHRIST.

Without the righteousness of Jesus Christ no one is going to Heaven .

As the scripture you have posted points to .

"With the heart man believes unto righteousness", making reference to believe in Jesus Christ. 

Having the righteousness before the confession., as to give the right to Jesus Christ to justify everyone by their faith  in him that he died and payed the price for the forgivness of our sins. 

Putting to shame those who tried by strange ways to take the confession of some in a cruel and torturous way by cutting off their tonges. Tormenting with the thought that they cannot be Saved from Hell, if that what it means the word "Saved"by your confession , in this context. 

Or Saved in General from aflictions of this world, . as of the torment and the fear of going to Hell, afflictions of the Soul and spirit. 

By believing in our heart we do not only have the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ, but we also have his Eternal Life and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit and a Heavenly inheritance and a Heavenly position.

Works in the Mosaic Law it include many things , it includes the cleansing rituals, which without them one cannot be considered clean to keep the Holidays , and participate in the sacrifices, and that included keeping the Sabbath according to the Jewish calendar as it was celebrated at the same time as in Jerusalem.   

That would be a Phariseeical way of understanding that passage.  Which would be wrong.  God is not unjust.  There are many kinds of works.....someone who has their tongue cut out is because they already confessed Jesus with their mouth unto salvation......but another "work" would be to forgive those who did that to him, for example.  We are to provoke one another to good works and that is what James was trying to do.  We are saved by faith in Christ and if we have faith in Christ that is alive and real, there will be works that show it.  Unless a person dies right away like the thief on the cross, or goes into a coma right after believing, then we are left alive on earth to go on living for Christ until we are called home.  Even the thief on the cross exhibited the "work" of believing in Jesus before he died, and witnessed to His righteousness (which the thief had to have seen/known by faith).  If faith is real (alive) there will be works of some kind and various kinds, depending on our circumstances of life and how God leads each one etc.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

That would be a Phariseeical way of understanding that passage.  Which would be wrong.  God is not unjust.  There are many kinds of works.....someone who has their tongue cut out is because they already confessed Jesus with their mouth unto salvation......but another "work" would be to forgive those who did that to him, for example.  We are to provoke one another to good works and that is what James was trying to do.  We are saved by faith in Christ and if we have faith in Christ that is alive and real, there will be works that show it.  Unless a person dies right away like the thief on the cross, or goes into a coma right after believing, then we are left alive on earth to go on living for Christ until we are called home.  Even the thief on the cross exhibited the "work" of believing in Jesus before he died, and witnessed to His righteousness (which the thief had to have seen/known by faith).  If faith is real (alive) there will be works of some kind and various kinds, depending on our circumstances of life and how God leads each one etc.

A scripture so clear came to my mind as I was reading your posts sister .  They claim to Know God , yet in works they DENY HIM .   being reprobate .

Yeah .   

For years , by grace sister  , we have been a warning folks to be not hearers only deceiving your own selves , and that faith without works is dead .

And for years we have been accused of works salvation . But here paul tells the church , they profess to know HIM , but in WORKS deny HIM.

AND what did JESUS once say , HE who denies me before men , HIM will I deny before the my Father .

By grace we have warned and warned , HE who loves JESUS would keep HIS sayings and He who does not ,   does not love Him.

For years we have said IT is HE in us at work and we don't save ourselves  .  YET because we have said those other things we were accused of being works earning .

YET how clear paul makes it .  THEY PROFESS HIM , YET IN WORKS DENY HIM .     SO let us all be encouraged and reminded and remember

we aint got them crowns YET ,   nope  they given out to those who endured TO THE END FAITHFULLY IN CHRIST .    TO those who LOVED HIS APPEARING .

AND HE WILL APPEAR ,    but in that day and hour , too so many who professed to know HIM , yet DENIED HIM , it will be as a theif for they watched not.

Sister   ,  you loved and I say its high time to bellow out a wonderous praise to the LORD and Rejoice in the LORD .