Being Perfect

[Willa]

1Jn 3:23  And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

1Jn 3:24  Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

[Blood Bought 1953]

12 hours ago, Walter and Deborah said:

we are not complete in Christ yet, as we strive towards perfection keeping The Lord Jesus Christ commandments to the end.

 

“Striving” sounds a lot like “ working”. I prefer “ resting” in His finished work at the Cross.Will simply believing the Gospel found in 1Cor15:1-4 be enough to save me?Striving for perfection is a worthy goal as long as one realizes it is not to be done in order to be saved.Adding to the Gospel is a dangerous thing.Faith plus nothing for Salvation.

 

 

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

1 hour ago, Betha said:

there is Eph 2v10,  For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before 'ordained that we should walk in them.

it's not that we stop working but now we do the work of GOD.....rest comes after work, as God Himself shows at creation Gen 2v2,3.

taking away from God's Word is also dangerous. 

 

Agreed.......just curious.....do we do these good works to be saved or to keep ourselves saved? I believe good works done prior to Salvation in order to be saved are like “ filthy rags”. Good works after Salvation  and especially those done in secret will be rewarded at the Bema Seat Of Christ.What do you think?

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Agreed.......just curious.....do we do these good works to be saved or to keep ourselves saved? I believe good works done prior to Salvation in order to be saved are like “ filthy rags”. Good works after Salvation  and especially those done in secret will be rewarded at the Bema Seat Of Christ.What do you think?

 

2 hours ago, Betha said:

I don't know, i don't make that decision.  GOD looks on the heart and knows our true motive.  I just obey Him as the Word applies in my life.....if we are wrong we will be corrected. 

The understanding I have thus far accrued is a little complex:
In the hermeneutic we are to verify precepts of Scripture to the whole of Scripture... a daunting task that no man can do perfectly! However we can advance in the knowledge of God's Word to gain ability to further glorify our Lord. In the aspect of works and filthy rags one must divide Biblically the light from the darkness / flesh from Spirit which drives one close to the gnostic error- this we can keep balanced by the fact of understanding what God intends for present heaven and earth into the new heaven and earth...

1 Cor 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

now most scholarship breaks down on this point as they according to the influence of this place say:
gold, silver and precious stones will be lasting work awaiting reward
and the wood, hay and straw will be burnt up without reward

However -now the hermeneutic:

13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire;

this day we know is the bema seat of Jesus where we, who are of Him, will be... but the understanding of this fire that tries the works is convoluted system of thought that is of a worldly nature to some degree or other... and can be seen differently when we bring the understanding of this passage of Scripture below in view

2 Peter 3:10-14

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; 

note the time gap here is rapture of the church above to the eternal state below...

in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This fire that God uses to purify will burn all of first creation acts completely away and why is this important to know? It is placed in the mind of the 'born again mind' thus having the capacity to accept that what we have began in-> is not being kept by God and that which will be we cannot even at this time know

1 Cor 2:9-13

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
KJV

thus loosing all potential of value gold to straw to the eternal state... therefore all who build upon first creation substance will suffer loss for when the foundation is removed that which is built upon it can no longer remain hence Peter's question below

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

The cleanness of the sanctification is when one builds upon the faith generated by The Word of God while without the pollution of idols of this world we wait upon God to bring the newness of all things without the possibility of sin ever again... thus the hope in flow

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

As God has taught us we are born in sin of sin and the world is cursed around us and the truth of this tension we live day by day with this longing... not yet realized

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
KJV

So as God teaches us how He 'IS' separating light from darkness and flesh from Spirit by faith in His Word we prevail in not combining that which is passing away with that which is being eternally kept fulfilling that above and how it will endure the bema and the end of first creation...

and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 

NKJV

This fleshes out in the reality recorded of Jesus as He sat in the Temple watching those who passed by in their giving:

Mark 12:41-44

41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
KJV

It is never the material thing that bears with God's evaluation but the Spiritual and what value is in gold to straw but the same

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

The answer- one who's value system matches perfectly The Lord Jesus'-> for then we are assured that we will not be here
 

Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV
 

Edited October 20, 2018 by enoob57

[enoob57]

18 minutes ago, Betha said:

I'm sorry Sir i can not reply to your post, as usual i can not quite grasp what you are saying ....but i am sure GOD does and that is what matters. Blessings !

We were born in sin in a place given over to sin... where from this do you find value?

[Guest shiloh357]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 2:21 PM, Walter and Deborah said:

Matthew 5:48 ⁴⁸ Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. 

Being Perfect , “Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.”

As many as being perfect 

https://biblehub.com/kjv/john/15.htm

You are quoting two different verses that use "perfect" differently.

In Matt. 5:48, Jesus setting up an impossible standard to meet.   Jesus is telling us to be as perfect as the Father, which is impossible.   So why did He say that?   The  context has to do with being "children of your father which is in heaven."   As children imitate their parents we are to imitate the Father and so Jesus says to be as perfect as He is.   We cannot ever reach that level of perfection.  The point Jesus is making is that we keep our eyes on Him and seek to live up to His standards to the degree it is possible to do so.   

The other verse from Philippians has to do with spiritual maturity:

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect (fully mature): but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, (mature)  be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.   (Php 3:12-15)
 

 

[Retrobyter]

On 10/20/2018 at 7:58 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Agreed.......just curious.....do we do these good works to be saved or to keep ourselves saved? I believe good works done prior to Salvation in order to be saved are like “ filthy rags”. Good works after Salvation  and especially those done in secret will be rewarded at the Bema Seat Of Christ.What do you think?

Shalom, Blood Bought 1953.

That's a trick question! It's NEITHER ONE! We can't do good works to be saved AND we can't do good works to keep ourselves saved! We do good works as an outward expression of what the Holy Spirit has already done in our lives through God's justification. He JUSIFIES us! He CALLS us "righteous" on His Son's account, in spite of our sins! In fact, it is the Holy Spirit who does the good works within us! We work outwardly what the Lord has already done within us!

God convicts us of our sins
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We realize the depravity of our sin and cry out to God
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God justifies us on His Son's merits while His Son becomes our propitiation. (The Great Exchange is made)
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God now can give us of His Spirit
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His Spirit does the good works through us.

 

The good works are not done prior to "salvation" (JUSTIFICATION); they are done AFTER "salvation!"

Listen to Paul's words to the Galatians:

Galatians 3:1-9 (KJV)

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by Retrobyter