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Chantarelle

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2 hours ago, Marlene S said:

This is a very intense Forum. I can only take small bits of it. What can I say. The Son of Man returns after the 6th seal is opened, which is immediately after the Tribulation period.

He comes in the clouds, however He comes as a 'thief in the night'. There is a trumpet sound and He send His angels to gather the Christians from all over the world and separate the sheep from the goats... and the sheep will go into the kingdom. At the time the heavens open up as a scroll, and He is seen coming in the clouds of Heaven. No horse...

Matthew 25: 31-33

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

And also this...

REV 6: 12-14

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

And this...

Matthew 24:21-22

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

The KING comes on His horse with His army after the fall of Babylon. He comes to seize the gods and demons and fallen ones who are here... fell from heaven to Earth.

One of my challenges is that I have had so many visions, and many supernatural things have happened to me, that personally it makes it a challenge to really find my place in the scheme of things.

Sometimes I think I have it, but then it changes a little. I was sealed and it was very real experience. I felt the lightning bolt on my forehead. It was a great jolt, it lit up my while head and my body with white light and a seal was printed on my forehead. Immediately afterwards I was filled with a great power that made me want to run and preach the gospel, which I did for a little while, before I woke up.

I was also shown the end of the world. Why? So many things I have seen and been a part of, but my Father has always been the Son of Man. It is He who I have always prayed to.

I have seen the heavens open up  and the KING coming in the clouds with His army on White horses. I have seen so many things,... but I have been able to handle it.

At one point I was even searched with a golden light shone from Heaven. It shone right through my stomach and moved up to my heart and then my head. I felt every bit of it. I was being searched, and I knew it. It was actually the first time in all of my dream-visions where I was afraid.

I saw the light coming and I tried to hide, but it found me and it was made of golden light with white light droplets. It was the brightest golden light you could ever imagine. I felt it moving through my body and I was also filled with this golden light.

After a few seconds, the light retracted and moved on.

I think when the Son of Man comes He will collect His Elect, whom He saves from the Anti-Christ... There is also The Lamb. Here is a question for you:

Is the Lamb, the same 'person' as the Son of Man and the KING of KINGS- the WORD? M.

Yes, of course the Lamb is the Son of God and the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords.  He is Jesus.

It may well be that you have had many visions, but you are simply mistaken on when Christ comes.

First, are you talking about His coming FOR His saints? Or the other coming later, WITH His saints?

If you are talking about His next coming, when He comes FOR His saints, that will be the rapture event. We find the timing of that rapture event in PAUL's writing, not in the gospels. Paul alone received the revelation of the rapture. If we study 1 Thes. 4 & 5, Paul gives us location points so we can know where the rapture will be in Revelation. For example, just 3 verses after the classic rapture verse of chapter 4, Paul mentions the Day of the Lord - as if these are back to back events that cannot be separated - as if the rapture will "trigger" the Day of the Lord. Paul tells us of sudden destruction that begins the wrath of God at the rapture event. Those IN CHRIST get raptured out, but those left behind get sudden destruction. And that sudden destruction begins the wrath of God.  Note carefully, the 70th week will not begin until the 7th seal and with the first trumpet judgment.

Where then do we find that in Revelation? It is a moment before the 6th seal. Not AT the 6th seal, for the 6th seal begins the DAY. The rapture comes a moment before the 6th seal and will trigger the start of the Day of the Lord. o Christ's next coming FOR His saints, will be a moment before the 6th seal - but He will come only to the air, and take the bride back to heaven. John did not see this coming, so did not write of it. But he DID see the raptured church in heaven shortly after, and we see that as the great crowd too large to number.

OF COURSE there is separation at the rapture, but it is separate from those IN CHRIST from those not in Christ. The sheep and goat judgment comes later, AFTER the 70th week.  The sheep and goats are separated by how they treated the Jews during the days of great tribulation.  The church rapture will be over 7 years before this sheep and goat judgment.

You have made another classical error: the signs in the sun and moon at the 6th seal are DIFFERENT than the signs shown in Matthew 24, and they are signs for two different events. This sign of a blood red moon shown at the 6th seal is also shown in Joel 2, as the sign of the arrival of the Day of the Lord. A blood red moon tells us the moon is visible.

The sign shown in Matthew 24 is different - no blood red moon, for the moon is dark and the sun is dark, meaning total darkness! This is the sign of Christ's coming, as shown in Rev. 19. This sign is also shown in Joel 3, with proof that Christ has come.

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15 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Yes, of course the Lamb is the Son of God and the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords.  He is Jesus.

It may well be that you have had many visions, but you are simply mistaken on when Christ comes.

First, are you talking about His coming FOR His saints? Or the other coming later, WITH His saints?

If you are talking about His next coming, when He comes FOR His saints, that will be the rapture event. We find the timing of that rapture event in PAUL's writing, not in the gospels. Paul alone received the revelation of the rapture. If we study 1 Thes. 4 & 5, Paul gives us location points so we can know where the rapture will be in Revelation. For example, just 3 verses after the classic rapture verse of chapter 4, Paul mentions the Day of the Lord - as if these are back to back events that cannot be separated - as if the rapture will "trigger" the Day of the Lord. Paul tells us of sudden destruction that begins the wrath of God at the rapture event. Those IN CHRIST get raptured out, but those left behind get sudden destruction. And that sudden destruction begins the wrath of God.  Note carefully, the 70th week will not begin until the 7th seal and with the first trumpet judgment.

Where then do we find that in Revelation? It is a moment before the 6th seal. Not AT the 6th seal, for the 6th seal begins the DAY. The rapture comes a moment before the 6th seal and will trigger the start of the Day of the Lord. o Christ's next coming FOR His saints, will be a moment before the 6th seal - but He will come only to the air, and take the bride back to heaven. John did not see this coming, so did not write of it. But he DID see the raptured church in heaven shortly after, and we see that as the great crowd too large to number.

OF COURSE there is separation at the rapture, but it is separate from those IN CHRIST from those not in Christ. The sheep and goat judgment comes later, AFTER the 70th week.  The sheep and goats are separated by how they treated the Jews during the days of great tribulation.  The church rapture will be over 7 years before this sheep and goat judgment.

You have made another classical error: the signs in the sun and moon at the 6th seal are DIFFERENT than the signs shown in Matthew 24, and they are signs for two different events. This sign of a blood red moon shown at the 6th seal is also shown in Joel 2, as the sign of the arrival of the Day of the Lord. A blood red moon tells us the moon is visible.

The sign shown in Matthew 24 is different - no blood red moon, for the moon is dark and the sun is dark, meaning total darkness! This is the sign of Christ's coming, as shown in Rev. 19. This sign is also shown in Joel 3, with proof that Christ has come.

There are two different events, there are even more things happening than we can even understand. I really cannot 'debate' the Scriptures. It is hard to do. But I did read your reply and will consider it.

The Church is the sheep and goats. All those who believe in Jesus, that He rose from the dead. Is it possible that the 144,00 are some of those whom the Son of Man removed when He sent His Angels to the four corners of the Earth to gather up His Elect?

The Son of Man is also seen near the End Harvesting the Earth removing His wheat with His sickle. Is this the same or a different event from the earlier one?

He returns and His rewards are with Him. The Church is divided and the Saints go into security into the Kingdom. Perhaps some of them are in God's Army when the KING returns in the end.

I take it that you believe in some sort of pre or mid-Tribulation Rapture? Have you been watching the skies? There seems to be several harvesting of the Earth taking place in Scripture.

Here are a couple of questions:

Who are the Elect? Who are the Chosen?

Have a Blessed day, M.

Edited by Marlene S
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