144,000?

[Chantarelle]

Are they the tribes of Israel? As witnesses we were always taught that the 144,000 were anointed and went to heaven, so I was just curious.

[BK1110]

The best interpretation seems to be that the 144,000 will be Jewish Christians that God protects during the Tribulation. All Christians will rule with Christ during the millennium and will go to heaven; there is no Biblical basis for the JW teaching that only 144,000 with reign with Christ in heaven and all others will stay on Earth.

[Willa]

Sorry, Chanterelle, the Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower are wrong about a lot of things.  

[Adstar]

On 10/20/2018 at 5:56 PM, Chantarelle said:

Are they the tribes of Israel? As witnesses we were always taught that the 144,000 were anointed and went to heaven, so I was just curious.

The Bible declares them to be 12,000 innocents from each of the 12 tribes.. Making a grand total of 144,000

Revelation 7: KJV

4 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. {5} Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. {6} Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. {7} Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. {8} Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand."

Revelation 14: KJV

1 "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads. {2} And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: {3} And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. {4} These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. {5} And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

[HAZARD]

The sealing of the 144,000 Jews Rev. 7:1-8. That they are all Jews and no Gentiles is clear from the fact that they are from the tribes of Israel. They get  saved after the rapture, for if they had been saved at the time of the rapture they would not have been left on the Earth. ( 1Thess. 4:16-17). They are sealed for the purpose of going through the trumpet judgments, from the time they begin after the seals are finished in the first part of the Week, to the middle of the Week. It was said to the first four trumpet angels to not hurt the earth, trees, grass, and seas until the 144,000 were sealed. Special direction is given to the fifth and sixth trumpet angels to hurt only those men who were not sealed (Rev. 9:4). The 144,000 will be caught up to Heaven under the seventh trumpet.

 

Juda was one of the twelve sons of Abraham, through Isaac, and Jacob, and therefore was of the same stock and race of people as were all Israelites (Gen. 29:28-35; 30:1-24).

Juda was chosen as the ruling tribe of the twelve (Gen. 49:8-10; 2 Sam. 7; 1 Kings 12:16-19; Micah 5:1, 2.

Balaam who was called by Balak to curse the twelve tribes of Israel as they came out of Egypt said of ALL ISRAEL, " the people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations" (Num. 23:7-12).

Israel out of the promised land was never to receive the blessings of the covenants (Gen. 28:15; Deut. 5:16; 11:9; 25:19; 28:8, 11; 31:13). The tribes of Israel today are scattered among the nations because of a curse (Lev. 26:32-39; Deu.t 28:63-65; Jer. 4:23-27).

Prophecy states that the same promised land will again be given back to them in the Millennium and that all the twelve tribes will again become one nation in that land at that time (Isa.11:10-15; Ezek. 20:33-35; 37:1-28; 43:7; 47: 13-48; 35; Matt. 24:31; Rom. 11:25-29; Rev. 7:1-7). If Anglo Saxons, Gentiles are Israel or are to become Israel, this would require the people of England, America, Ireland, Scotland, Sweden. Australia and other countries to vacate their lands and all go back to Palestine.

Israel out of the land were to be few in number (Deut. 4:26-27; 28:63-68). Were not these promises spoken to the whole twelve tribes? It has been and still is being fulfilled with the Jews, so why would the same thing not apply to the ten tribes who disobeyed and who were cursed? If Jews fulfil this prophecy and Anglo Saxons, and Gentiles do not, then who of the two classes of people are of the Israel stock upon whom this curse was pronounced?

 

The 144,000 will be made of 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes if Israel.

   

• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben
   
• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon
   
• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Levi
   
• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Judah
   
• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar
   
• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun
   
• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Dan
   
• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali
   
• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Gad
   
• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Asher
   
• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph (later Ephraim and Manasseh)
   
• 
  There will be 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin

[Marlene S]

The 144,000 are with the Lamb. The new covenant is a spiritual one, Christ Jesus is interested in Saved Souls and Spirits.

I have done much research on the 144,000 and I have found 3 groups. There are currently 144,000 Jewish virgin males in Israel who believe that they are the prophesied 144,000. I have found another group of 144,000 who claim that they are from 10 Lost Tribes of Israel. Then there is what I believe to be the true 144,000 of the 12 Tribes of Israel. I believe these ones are not flesh and blood Jews, but spiritual Jews, and some Christians will find themselves belonging to the 12 Tribes of Israel. I also believe that the 144,000 have already been sealed and it is possible that many of them remain unawares, until that day, when the spirit of God is poured out upon them. When they will be filled with the Holy Spirit, and run to and fro throughout the Earth preaching Salvation and Repentance. That time is now! M.

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, Marlene S said:

The 144,000 are with the Lamb. The new covenant is a spiritual one, Christ Jesus is interested in Saved Souls and Spirits.

I have done much research on the 144,000 and I have found 3 groups. There are currently 144,000 Jewish virgin males in Israel who believe that they are the prophesied 144,000.

No way on this.

9 hours ago, Marlene S said:

I have found another group of 144,000 who claim that they are from 10 Lost Tribes of Israel.

There are no lost tribes in that a few of each tribe lived in Judah, thus when the Northern tribes were taken away the SEED was still in Judah. Just like some of Judah was taken away with the 10 tribes. The Northern tribes were wicked, this the Levites/Priesthood all moved to Judah, as did those who hated Wickedness. Some of the tribe of Judah who loved Wickedness thus moved to where the sin was at. The Lost Tribes were always a MISNOMER, they were never lost in that that had SEED yet in Judah. 

9 hours ago, Marlene S said:

Then there is what I believe to be the true 144,000 of the 12 Tribes of Israel. I believe these ones are not flesh and blood Jews, but spiritual Jews, and some Christians will find themselves belonging to the 12 Tribes of Israel. I also believe that the 144,000 have already been sealed and it is possible that many of them remain unawares, until that day, when the spirit of God is poured out upon them. When they will be filled with the Holy Spirit, and run to and fro throughout the Earth preaching Salvation and Repentance. That time is now! M.

Christian Gentiles are not Jews. The 144,000 are ALL ISRAEL, not very Jews, but every Jew that turns to their Messiah. Thus the number 12 represents FULLNESS, thus 12 x 12 x 12 = ALL ISRAEL as a Nation, not every Jew, bt Israel's seed as a Nation has been preserved forever, just like God promised Abraham. Thus All Israel is saved. 

1/3 of the Jews will repent (Zechariah 13:9-10) and 2/3 will perish. Thus the 144,000 is a Metaphor for ALL ISRAEL, or about 2 to 3 million Jews who repent and then flee Judea for Petra. 

[Marlene S]

Revelation Man, I appreciate what you are saying, however, what I wrote in previous post is what I have found. Firstly, I believe, actually, I know that there are Christians not living in Israel, not even knowing that they are Jews, scattered throughout the world. I have been a Christian for almost sixty years and I have had many dream visions.

There are indeed two groups claiming to be the 144,000 existing today. I do not believe that they are the actual 144,000, but the group of the supposed lost Tribes will play a part in the Last Days when Anti-Christ is in power. There is also a fake 144,000.

I do not consider myself to be Jewish, although my surname is a popular name in Hebrew. Having said that, I was shown the things that will happen to me.

What I am about to write here is the truth and Christ is my witness, because I prayed to Him unceasingly and after twenty-one days, He showed me some of the things which are to come... in my life experience. I do not need to be interrogated or ridiculed. This is my truth.

Firstly, I have had dream-visions for a long time, but the last ones were different, because they were about me. I had six vision over a period of a couple of years.

I won't relate the first three, but the second three were very astonishing and wonderful and wow!

In the first one I was searched. This is a literal thing that happens. I won't go into details, but it was a supernatural experience and God was involved. Secondly, I was in a vision where I saw what I thought was the Rapture happening, people were ascending from a huge crowd, but not many people, in relation to the crowd size. As I watched them ascend, I began to have the though that I was being left behind. The thought was never completed in my mind, because what was about to follow that thought was absolute dread.

In a split second before I could complete the thought, I bolt of lightning came down from the clouds where the people ascended and struck me on my forehead. It was a bright white light and it illuminated my mind and my body for about three, four seconds. At that time I was in the place of LIGHT...

After I was struck, I could see that there was a seal branded on my forehead. It went right across from outer edge of eye-brow across to other side. I could see the seal, it was branded in white light with golden specs of light within.

As soon as I was struck and the light disappeared, I was filled with a great power, like I could run or even fly and I was filled with the Holy Spirit. I had to go and preach, and so I did to some of the people there.

The third dream-vision was interesting because it was like a dream within a dream. I found myself standing somewhere and strangely, I was also watching myself standing there. I heard a great roaring noise and I looked to my left and I saw a great big tsunami approaching me. It was so tall that it seemed to reach to the sky, only this was not a tsunami of water, but of fire. It was a bluish-yellowish copper-like fire and it consumed everything in its path. It was huge!

Interestingly enough, I was not afraid of it, and I stood there as it approached me. It consumed me and when it passed, I looked down at my stomach area and there was light bursting out. We will also be refined. Just also wanted to add here that several years ago, I had a dream-vision where an elderly man appeared to me in light. He was dressed in colorful ancient garb, looked to be about eighty years old. He was a bit shorter that I was, about five seven or so. He walked up to me and said this to me: 'My name is Elijah the prophet, and I know your name'. He had a kind face and I was astonished. I remember waking up from that and thinking, 'What is happening, I am dreaming about prophets now?'

So, having said all that, I do believe that there are some Christians who will find their true identity as being Jews. The challenge with dream-visions is that you do not know if some of the things are actually happening in real time. All these thing I have written is truth, and Christ is my Lord.

Christ is active in the Church and many are having experiences. Thanks, M.

 

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Marlene S said:

Revelation Man, I appreciate what you are saying, however, what I wrote in previous post is what I have found. Firstly, I believe, actually, I know that there are Christians not living in Israel, not even knowing that they are Jews, scattered throughout the world. I have been a Christian for almost sixty years and I have had many dream visions.

There are indeed two groups claiming to be the 144,000 existing today. I do not believe that they are the actual 144,000, but the group of the supposed lost Tribes will play a part in the Last Days when Anti-Christ is in power.

 

Except for scripture says, 

"4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel:" - Rev 7

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."  Rev 14

Chances are these are mostly young men because they have to be virgins. 

There is no difference between Jews and Christians when it come to being in Christ, and of the seed of Abraham. This group is set apart as they are first fruits to God and Jesus of the resurrection, from the blood lineage of the 12 tribes, young men (probably) that have not known women, and they speak no guile. 

But you are correct in one thing; they are likely from all over the world, not just in the country of Israel. Maybe they are practicing Jews. Maybe in homes with whatever practicing religion. But religion isn't one of the qualifications, it's virginity and lack of guile, (innocence) and lineage.

Scripture doesn't even record they are confessors or believers, though I would assume they all have the knowledge that Jesus is Lord and believe He is raised from the dead; but that's just speculation.

[Marlene S]

Revelation Man: I believe that the 144,000 virgins are not actual virgin men, but virgin Spirits.; for we worship Christ in spirit and in truth. This is not about flesh and blood virgin men. I believe that the Spirit is male and the Soul is female. The Church/ Congregation is made up of redeemed Souls who are washed white as snow. Christ is male and the Church is female, being His Bride.

There is a spiritual understanding that Christian lack in most cases. Christians do not question their Faith... we believe. I am also a seeker of knowledge and there are so many Christian texts available that we need to strengthen our faith, since most of the Church will be deceived by Anti-Christ, if not all of it. These are things you must also consider.

In my experience, most Christians do not usually think of the 144,000, because they believe that the Church will be taken out of the world before the 144,000 are let loose. I also think that when Christ said that in the Last Days knowledge will increase, He meant that the knowledge we already possess about Him and the Kingdom will blossom, gaining new perspectives, but building on what we already know, transforming our minds to new understandings and heights.

I also know the Bible very well, unfortunately, I am not like those who can quote verses just like that. I know what Chapter, but I have to search for the verse. The 144,000 will be filled with the power of the Holy Spirit and they will run to and fro around the world proclaiming the Gospel and saving Souls.

PS... HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU and ALL MEMBERS of WORTHY CHRISTIAN FORUM. 2019 promises to be very exciting! The LORD is coming! Thanks, M.