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144,000?


Chantarelle

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On 1/1/2019 at 1:47 AM, Marlene S said:

Revelation Man, I appreciate what you are saying, however, what I wrote in previous post is what I have found. Firstly, I believe, actually, I know that there are Christians not living in Israel, not even knowing that they are Jews, scattered throughout the world. I have been a Christian for almost sixty years and I have had many dream visions.

 There are indeed two groups claiming to be the 144,000 existing today. I do not believe that they are the actual 144,000, but the group of the supposed lost Tribes will play a part in the Last Days when Anti-Christ is in power. There is also a fake 144,000.

You didn't reply to my post directly so I didn't get a notification, sorry, I always try to reply. i understand that some of these groups you are speaking of are making these claims and you are just pointing that out. I can also show you later on why the 144,000 are Jews who repent and I can show it via the scriptures where it's understandable.  I will try to answer the posts first.

On 1/1/2019 at 1:47 AM, Marlene S said:

I do not consider myself to be Jewish, although my surname is a popular name in Hebrew. Having said that, I was shown the things that will happen to me.

What I am about to write here is the truth and Christ is my witness, because I prayed to Him unceasingly and after twenty-one days, He showed me some of the things which are to come... in my life experience. I do not need to be interrogated or ridiculed. This is my truth.

Firstly, I have had dream-visions for a long time, but the last ones were different, because they were about me. I had six vision over a period of a couple of years.

I won't relate the first three, but the second three were very astonishing and wonderful and wow!

In the first one I was searched. This is a literal thing that happens. I won't go into details, but it was a supernatural experience and God was involved. Secondly, I was in a vision where I saw what I thought was the Rapture happening, people were ascending from a huge crowd, but not many people, in relation to the crowd size. As I watched them ascend, I began to have the though that I was being left behind. The thought was never completed in my mind, because what was about to follow that thought was absolute dread.

In a split second before I could complete the thought, I bolt of lightning came down from the clouds where the people ascended and struck me on my forehead. It was a bright white light and it illuminated my mind and my body for about three, four seconds. At that time I was in the place of LIGHT...

After I was struck, I could see that there was a seal branded on my forehead. It went right across from outer edge of eye-brow across to other side. I could see the seal, it was branded in white light with golden specs of light within.

As soon as I was struck and the light disappeared, I was filled with a great power, like I could run or even fly and I was filled with the Holy Spirit. I had to go and preach, and so I did to some of the people there.

The third dream-vision was interesting because it was like a dream within a dream. I found myself standing somewhere and strangely, I was also watching myself standing there. I heard a great roaring noise and I looked to my left and I saw a great big tsunami approaching me. It was so tall that it seemed to reach to the sky, only this was not a tsunami of water, but of fire. It was a bluish-yellowish copper-like fire and it consumed everything in its path. It was huge!

Interestingly enough, I was not afraid of it, and I stood there as it approached me. It consumed me and when it passed, I looked down at my stomach area and there was light bursting out. We will also be refined. Just also wanted to add here that several years ago, I had a dream-vision where an elderly man appeared to me in light. He was dressed in colorful ancient garb, looked to be about eighty years old. He was a bit shorter that I was, about five seven or so. He walked up to me and said this to me: 'My name is Elijah the prophet, and I know your name'. He had a kind face and I was astonished. I remember waking up from that and thinking, 'What is happening, I am dreaming about prophets now?'

So, having said all that, I do believe that there are some Christians who will find their true identity as being Jews. The challenge with dream-visions is that you do not know if some of the things are actually happening in real time. All these thing I have written is truth, and Christ is my Lord.

Christ is active in the Church and many are having experiences. Thanks, M.

It's funny, the things I was going to tell you about the 144,000 correlate perfectly with the things you just told me about your visions, except I don't think you quite grasp what these things mean. Are you a Jew or not ? I am kinda in the dark on that, of course all Christians are always Christians Jew or Gentiles doesn't matter. When the Rapture happens Jews and Gentiles will be taken together, but I think God was showing you what is going to happen to the Jews who REPENT after the Rapture but BEFORE the Day of the Lord which is when the First Seal is opened and God's Wrath is released.

Now that that is out of the way I can tie it all together for you. In your dreams/visions you spoke about...............

1.) People getting Sealed in the forehead. ( The Jews will get Sealed but it doesn't mean what many people think.)

2.) Elijah the Prophet. (Malachi 4:5-6 tells us Elijah is sent to turn Israel back to God BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord/ DOTL)

3.) Being Searched. (I think this represents God SEARCHING for the Blood of the Lamb on the Posts as in the Passover.)

4.) And finally a consuming fire. ( God's Wrath/Judgment on the World WHILST Protecting the Jews via the Seal on the Forehead.) 

Now this is why I think the 144,000 is a Metaphor for ALL ISRAEL, not every Jew per se, but for the SEED of Abraham in general who REPENT before the DOTL. Notice when the Jews are SEALED IN THE HEAD (Rev. 7), just after the Seals are opened and just before the Trumpets of God bring plagues upon the EARTH, SEA & TREES in Revelation ch. 8. So The First Seal is the Anti-Christ, he conquers Jerusalem and becomes THE BEAST for 42 Months, but the Jews who have REPENTED before this First Seal (DOTL) understand when they see the Abomination of Desolation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 that they have to Flee Judea for the Mountains of Petra !! Only the Jews who have repented will understand this because they will have read Matthew 24. Elijah comes before the AoD is placed in the Temple and instructs them on these things also.

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So Elijah shows up BEFORE the Day of the Lord, thus as one of the Two-witnesses he must die BEFORE the Beast does because both are in their OFFICES for 1260 days/42 Months. This is true, the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe and the Beast dies at the 7th Vial. So this all jibes. 

Now the 144,000 are not really 144,000, it's a Metaphor for ALL ISRAEL, as Paul said when he quoted Isaiah, ALL ISRAEL will be Saved, not every Jew, but Israel as a Nation is saved, the promise to Abraham is preserved, Israel as a Nation is preserved. Not every Jew is saved, 1/3 repent, 2/3 do not. Those that do Flee Judea and are the ones who are "SEALED" in their Foreheads so to speak via God protecting them in Petra are the 144,000 but it is really ,more like 2 to 3 million Jews. This is proven by plagues that the Angel withholds until they are "PROTECTED". 

In Rev. 7 the Angel is told not to HURT THE EARTH.....TREES.....SEAS until the 144,000 (Repented Jews) are Protected in Petra (Sealed by God). 

Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The Trumpet Judgments in Rev. chapter 8 do what ? Burn the Trees, hurts the Earth (grasses/plagues) and hurts the Sea (Sea creatures die, sea turns to blood etc.)

So the Angels are told specifically to not allow the Trumpet Judgments to come forth until the 144,000 are PROTECTED/SEALED. It is not actually 144,000, that is a Metaphor for ALL Israel !! You see the number 12 = Fulness so 12 x 12 x 12 = ALL ISRAEL !! Thus we are given the 12 tribes times 12,000. It is really only the repented Jews who Flee Judea like Jesus told them to do when they see the AoD. It should be between 2 and 3 million Jews.

Now that you see that Elijah turns Israel back to God being one of the Two-witness do you see how this all ties in together ? They are SEARCHED to see of the Blood of Jesus over their Doors (on their hearts), the Fire is God's Judgment, and the Jews are getting SEALED via them REPENTING !! Amen. 

In Rev. 18, when God says "Come out of her my people, lest you partake in her sins and receive of her plagues" that is God telling Israel to get out of Babylon (the world) and to flee to Petra, lest they partake in the PLAGUES coming on the world !! 

So the 144,000 are the REPENTED Jews who Flee to Petra, God SEALING THEM only means PROTECTING THEM supernaturally in Petra. Thus the SEED of Abraham is preserved, and Israel will rule with Christ for 1000 years. 

Edited by Revelation Man
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4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You didn't reply to my post directly so I didn't get a notification, sorry, I always try to reply. i understand that some of these groups you are speaking of are making these claims and you are just pointing that out. I can also show you later on why the 144,000 are Jews who repent and I can show it via the scriptures where it's understandable.  I will try to answer the posts first.

It's funny, the things I were going to tell you about the 144,000 correlate perfectly with the things you just told me about your visions, except I don't think you quite grasp what these things mean. Are you a Jew or not ? I am kinda in the dark on that, of course all Christians are always Christians Jew or Gentiles doesn't matter. When the Rapture happens Jews and Gentiles will b taken together, but I think God was showing you what is going to happen to the Jews who REPENT after the Rapture but BEFORE the Day of the Lord which is when the First Seal is opened and God's Wrath is released.

Now that that is out of the way I can tie it all together for you. In your dreams/visions you spoke about...............

1.) People getting Sealed in the forehead. ( The Jews will get Sealed but it doesn't mean what many people think.)

2.) Elijah the Prophet. (Malachi 4:5-6 tells us Elijah is sent to turn Israel back to God BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord/ DOTL)

3.) Being Searched. (I think this represents God SEARCHING for the Blood of the Lamb on the Posts as in the Passover.)

4.) And finally a consuming fire. ( God's Wrath/Judgment on the World WHILST Protecting the Jews via the Seal on the Forehead.) 

Now this is why I think the 144,000 is a Metaphor for ALL ISRAEL, not every Jew, bit for the SEED of Abraham in general who REPENT before the DOTL. Notice when the Jews are SEALED IN THE HEAD, just after the Seals are opened and just before the Trumpets of God bring plagues upon the EARTH, SEA & TREES in Revelation ch. 7. So The First Seal is the Anti-Christ, he conquers Jerusalem and becomes THE BEAST for 42 Months, but the Jews who have REPENTED before this First Seal (DOTL) understand when they see the Abomination of Desolation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 that they have to Flee Judea for the Mountains of Petra !! Only the Jews who have repented will understand this. Elijah comes before the AoD is placed in the Temple.

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So Elijah shows up BEFORE the Day of the Lord, thus as one of the Two-witnesses he must die BEFORE the Beast does because both are in their OFFICES for 1260 days/42 Months. This is true, the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe and the Beast dies at the 7th Vial. So this all jibes. 

Now the 144,000 are not really 144,000, its a Metaphor for ALL ISRAEL, as Paul said when he quoted Isaiah, ALL ISRAEL will be Saved, nt every Jew, nut Israel as a Nation is saved, the promise to Abraham is preserved, Israel as a Nation is preserved. Not every Jew is saved, 1/3 repent, 2/3 do not. Those that do Flee Judea and are the ones who are "SEALED" in their Foreheads so to speak via God protecting them in Petra. This s proven by what the Angel withholds until they are "PROTECTED". 

In Rev. 7 the Angel is told not to HURT THE EARTH.....TREES.....SEAS until the 144,000 (Repented Jews) are Protected in Petra (Sealed by God). 

Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The Trumpet Judgments do what ? Burn the Trees, hurts the Earth (grasses/plagues) and hurts the Sea (creatures die, sea turns to blood etc.)

So the Angels are told specifically to not allow the Trumpet Judgments to come forth until the 144,000 are PROTECTED/SEALED. It is not actually 144,000, that is a Metaphor for ALL Israel !! You see the number 12 = Fulness so 12 x 12 x 12 = ALL ISRAEL !! Thus we are given the 12 tribes times 12,000. It is really only the repented Jews who Flee Judea like Jesus told them to d when they see the AoD. It should be between 2 and 3 million Jews.

Now that you see that Elijah turns Israel back to God being one of the Two-witness do you see how this all ties in together ? They are SEARCHED to see of the Blood of Jesus over their Doors (on their hearts), the Fire is God's Judgment, and the Jews are getting SEALED vua them REPENTING !! Amen. 

In Rev. 18, when God says "Come out of her my people, kest you partake in her sins and receive of her plagues" that is God telling Israel to get out of Babylon (the world) and to flee to Petra, lest they partake in the PLAGUES !! 

So the 144,000 are the REPENTED Jews who Flee to Petra, God SEALING THEM only means PROTECTING THEM supernaturally in Peta. Thus the SEED of Abraham is preserved, and Israel will rule with Christ for 1000 years. 

I do understand what is being said here. As far as I know I am not a Jew. I am a Christian, always has been, but it is possible that I am, who knows? I hesitate to write here what I really want to say. God searches your hearts and minds. It is a literal experience and when it is happening you are very much aware that you are being searched. I cannot really go into details as yet.

Actually, it took me a long time to understand my visions. Like I said, I have had visions for many, many years, but only as an observer, these dream-visions were full of interactions, which never really happened before. I believe by showing me the huge crowd of people and that there were only a few ascending, meant that I had to proclaim the Gospel to those as well, which is what I did after being struck on my forehead.

I did have three other dream-visions after those ones where I saw a much greater crowd ascending, multitudes of people, but prior to that dream-vision I saw a demon marking people on their foreheads. It was being done on the supernatural level and they were unaware of what was happening to them. And the final dream-vision is my greatest yet, where I saw Christ, the KING and LORD coming in the clouds with his army of Angels.

I have always believed that Jesus is the Son of God. Around twenty years old I found Christ. I also found found that as above, so below. There is another level here and it is spiritual in nature.

I do believe that the fire is God's judgment, but I also believe that it will all end here, not by water, but by fire. There is a new Kingdom coming in a new Earth, where flesh and blood cannot enter. The fire cleanses the physical matter and all those who are left on the Earth on that day will see themselves for who they really are; whether clothed with the spirit or naked and covered in the crimson stain of sin.

I do not agree with you when you say the 144,000 are a metaphor. It is literal. Many are called, few are chosen. The 144,000 are sealed for a purpose and that is to go throughout the world and preach the Gospel to everyone. The world will be a dark place then. Christian teachings would be banned and forbidden. After a time people will become hungry for the truth, since it could not be found in the world. Many will be killed and imprisoned and hunted in that day, and I believe they will be very successful in their mission.

There is another level of understanding here and it is in the spiritual things, those things we received when the Light seed was planted into our flesh upon entering the world. These are the things of the MIND- the things of Perfection. I follow only Christ, for He is the Father of Spirits. M.

 

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10 hours ago, Marlene S said:

I do not agree with you when you say the 144,000 are a metaphor. It is literal. Many are called, few are chosen. The 144,000 are sealed for a purpose and that is to go throughout the world and preach the Gospel to everyone. The world will be a dark place then. Christian teachings would be banned and forbidden. After a time people will become hungry for the truth, since it could not be found in the world. Many will be killed and imprisoned and hunted in that day, and I believe they will be very successful in their mission.

 

Another "MEN'S TRADITION" that only confuses the masses. Nowhere in the bible does it say the 144,000 are going to preach the Gospel, look for it. The reason God/Holy Spirit told me I was stuck in a rut 5 years ago was because I was heeding men's traditions, thus blocking out God's truths, this was one of them. When the 144,000 are mentioned the bible only tells of an ANGEL Spreading the Gospel unto the whole world. NOWHERE do the 144,000 ever spread the Gospel as per the scriptures, the Two-witnesses do, the 144,000 are never said to spread the Gospel, find it and get back to me.

In Rev. 14, the first 5 verses speak about the 144,000, they are on Mt. Zion with Jesus when he returns, this is the Harvest chapter. S these are THE WHEAT of Israel. The Tares are in verses 18-20, the Wicked who are placed in the Winepress (Armageddon) and in verse 14 we see THE RAPTURE. But notice in verse 6 who is spreading the Gospel, it's an Angel, not the 144,000. Why would they need to be SEALED/PROTECTED from the Plagues of God if they were supernatural beings ? They are humans, they are the 1/3 who Flee to Judea, hence they need to be protected. 

Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon (Satan's Kingdom on earth) is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Notice where the 144,000 are SEALED at, in Rev. 7. In Rev. 6 the Anti-Christ Conquers israel and becomes the Beast. In Rev. 12 we see the Dragon chases the Woman (Israel) into the Wilderness where God protects her (eagles wings) for 1260 days. Rev. 6 is the same event as Rev. 12. So the 144,000 are the Jews Fleeing the Beast/Anti-Christ from Rev. 6, God tells the Angels to hold up on the Plagues until the Jews make it to Petra. Nowhere are they said to preach the Gospel, the Angel does that. And by the way Prophecy is my calling Sister, I have been preaching on this for over 30 years.

God Bless. Below are a couple of threads I have made on this site here....give them a look see.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Another "MEN'S TRADITION" that only confuses the masses. Nowhere in the bible does it say the 144,000 are going to preach the Gospel, look for it. The reason God/Holy Spirit told me I was stuck in a rut 5 years ago was because I was heeding men's traditions, thus blocking out God's truths, this was one of them. When the 144,000 are mentioned the bible only tells of an ANGEL Spreading the Gospel unto the whole world. NOWHERE do the 144,000 ever spread the Gospel as per the scriptures, the Two-witnesses do, the 144,000 are never said to spread the Gospel, find it and get back to me.

In Rev. 14, the first 5 verses speak about the 144,000, they are on Mt. Zion with Jesus when he returns, this is the Harvest chapter. S these are THE WHEAT of Israel. The Tares are in verses 18-20, the Wicked who are placed in the Winepress (Armageddon) and in verse 14 we see THE RAPTURE. But notice in verse 6 who is spreading the Gospel, it's an Angel, not the 144,000. Why would they need to be SEALED/PROTECTED from the Plagues of God if they were supernatural beings ? They are humans, they are the 1/3 who Flee to Judea, hence they need to be protected. 

Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon (Satan's Kingdom on earth) is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Notice where the 144,000 are SEALED at, in Rev. 7. In Rev. 6 the Anti-Christ Conquers israel and becomes the Beast. In Rev. 12 we see the Dragon chases the Woman (Israel) into the Wilderness where God protects her (eagles wings) for 1260 days. Rev. 6 is the same event as Rev. 12. So the 144,000 are the Jews Fleeing the Beast/Anti-Christ from Rev. 6, God tells the Angels to hold up on the Plagues until the Jews make it to Petra. Nowhere are they said to preach the Gospel, the Angel does that. And by the way Prophecy is my calling Sister, I have been preaching on this for over 30 years.

God Bless. Below are a couple of threads I have made on this site here....give them a look see.

 

 

Here is a question for you: do you believe you are a physical being or a supernatural being? It is not the physical clothing or flesh that is so obvious in the physical world I am speaking about here. It is what is inside the flesh. Some Humans are Souls redeemed and some are new virgin spirits born in the flesh/water. I am not saying they are supernatural beings so as to be discernible with the naked eye. It is what is inside the flesh. Unless you are born of water and the spirit, you cannot enter into the Kingdom.

I have a somewhat clear understanding as to what is happening in my life. Rev Chapter 7 does speak of the 144,000, and Christ gives us the understanding.

..............

'9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

..................

This is what the !44,000 do.  John was in Heaven when he saw this. Do you really believe that there will be an Angel flying through the skies proclaiming the gospel? No, it is the sign for the 144,000 to preach upon the Earth. As above, so below. Remember the Seven Thunders?

Also, I noticed that because you believe that the 144,000 are a metaphor for all of saved Israel, you are going in a different direction that I am. M.

 

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23 minutes ago, Marlene S said:

Here is a question for you: do you believe you are a physical being or a supernatural being? It is not the physical clothing or flesh that is so obvious in the physical world I am speaking about here. It is what is inside the flesh. Some Humans are Souls redeemed and some are new virgin spirits born in the flesh/water. I am not saying they are supernatural beings so as to be discernible with the naked eye. It is what is inside the flesh. Unless you are born of water and the spirit, you cannot enter into the Kingdom.

I have a somewhat clear understanding as to what is happening in my life. Rev Chapter 7 does speak of the 144,000, and Christ gives us the understanding.

..............

'9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

..................

This is what the !44,000 do.  John was in Heaven when he saw this. Do you really believe that there will be an Angel flying through the skies proclaiming the gospel? No, it is the sign for the 144,000 to preach upon the Earth. As above, so below. Remember the Seven Thunders?

Also, I noticed that because you believe that the 144,000 are a metaphor for all of saved Israel, you are going in a different direction that I am. M.

 

I tend to agree.

Like many things in scripture, there is both a natural and spiritual view of things.  We are no different.

The timing of the 144,000's mention fits well with the understanding that they will be proclaiming the gospel of repentance for the forgiveness of sins during the time of the plagues.

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32 minutes ago, Marlene S said:

Here is a question for you: do you believe you are a physical being or a supernatural being? It is not the physical clothing or flesh that is so obvious in the physical world I am speaking about here. It is what is inside the flesh. Some Humans are Souls redeemed and some are new virgin spirits born in the flesh/water. I am not saying they are supernatural beings so as to be discernible with the naked eye. It is what is inside the flesh. Unless you are born of water and the spirit, you cannot enter into the Kingdom.

The point remains, the 144,000 are not Humans who have died and received their Glorious bodies, else they would not need protection, they are human beings on earth, thus they are the Jews who Flee Judea. 

32 minutes ago, Marlene S said:

I have a somewhat clear understanding as to what is happening in my life. Rev Chapter 7 does speak of the 144,000, and Christ gives us the understanding.

..............

'9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev. 7:1-8 is about the 144,000. Rev. 7:9-17 has nothing to do with the 144,000, they are the Church Age Saints that came out of the 2000 some odd year Tribulation period. Jesus told us we would have CONTINUAL TRIBULATION as the Church, thus the Church Age being some odd 2000 years is GREATER than the 7 Years (70th Week) of Tribulation after the Rapture as in 2000>7. 

The Greatest Ever Troubles doesn't mean the Saints shown in Heaven can't have come out of the GREATEST EVERY PERIOD of Tribulation as in the Church Age.

The 144,000 John saw was a Vision of men on earth, the GREAT MULTITUDE is the Church in Heaven, not the 144,000. 

32 minutes ago, Marlene S said:

This is what the !44,000 do.  John was in Heaven when he saw this. Do you really believe that there will be an Angel flying through the skies proclaiming the gospel? No, it is the sign for the 144,000 to preach upon the Earth. As above, so below. Remember the Seven Thunders?

Also, I noticed that because you believe that the 144,000 are a metaphor for all of saved Israel, you are going in a different direction that I am. M.

 

Of course I do, the bible says so plus each Seal, Trumpet or Vial comes forth because of an Angel. Nowhere does the 144,000 preach, that is  FABRICATED MEN'S TRADITION. It just is, just like there is no 200 Million man horse Army, the 200 Million is an Angelic Army that brings Plagues against mankind. 

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1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

The point remains, the 144,000 are not Humans who have died and received their Glorious bodies. else they would not need protection, they are human beings on earth, thus they are the Jews who Flee Judea. 

Rev. 7:1-8 is about the 144,000. Rev. 7:9-17 has nothing to do with the 144,000, they are the Church Age Saints that came out of the 2000 some odd year Tribulation period. Jesus told us we would have CONTINUAL TRIBULATION as the Church, thus the Church Age being some odd 2000 years is GREATER than the 7 Years (70th Week) of Tribulation after the Rapture as in 2000>7. 

The Greatest Ever Troubles doesn't mean the Saints shown in Heaven can't have come out of the GREATEST EVERY PERIOD of Tribulation as in the Church Age.

The 144,000 John saw was a Vision of men on earth, the GREAT MULTITUDE is the Church in Heaven, not the 144,000. 

Of course I do, the bible says so plus each Seal, Trumpet or Vial comes forth because of an Angel. Nowhere does the 144,000 preach, that is  FABRICATED MEN'S TRADITION. It just is, just like there is no 200 Million man horse Army, the 200 Million is an Angelic Army that brings Plagues against mankind. 

I never said that the great multitude in Heaven was the 144,000. They are there because they came out of great Tribulation. These ones, or perhaps some of these ones were saved because of the preaching of the 144,000 in the Last Days. There are a few different multitudes reported in Heaven.

I also never said that the 144,000 are Humans who have died. They are alive on Earth when the mission comes to them. They do not receive protection in the world and they do not flee to Judea, they are roaming across the Earth, as they are hunted by the Anti-Christ and Satan. This group will be much persecuted.

I believe this is what Jesus meant by this verse:

Matthew Chapter 25: 31-46

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

..............

Here is something else:

Daniel Chapter 11:31-33

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

...........

Did you know that today in Israel, less than twenty percent of Israelis are actually blood Israelites? The other eighty percent are proselytes. Israel is compared to Egypt for their captivity in sin, and also as Sodom because of the legalization of same-sex marriage and the abomination it yields. The synagogue of Satan is alive and well. M.

Edited by Marlene S
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1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

I tend to agree.

Like many things in scripture, there is both a natural and spiritual view of things.  We are no different.

The timing of the 144,000's mention fits well with the understanding that they will be proclaiming the gospel of repentance for the forgiveness of sins during the time of the plagues.

Thank you for that. It is so challenging to discuss this with Christians. We must not become debaters. My walk is in the spirit, for we can only serve God is spirit and in truth. M.

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30 minutes ago, Marlene S said:

Thank you for that. It is so challenging to discuss this with Christians. We must not become debaters. My walk is in the spirit, for we can only serve God in spirit and in truth. M.

 

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2 hours ago, Marlene S said:

I never said that the great multitude in Heaven was the 144,000. They are there because they came out of great Tribulation. These ones, or perhaps some of these ones were saved because of the preaching of the 144,000 in the Last Days. There are a few different multitudes reported in Heaven.

 

I understand, I am pointing out who they are not, then pointing out again who they are not. In other words the Church Age Saints seen in Rev. 7:9-17 DID NOT die during the 70th Week, they were Raptured before the 70th Week. They are all the Church Age Saints who were raised from the Dead in 1 Cor. 15 and those who were alive and remained who were also Raptured. None of those Multitude died after the Rapture, thus they do not come out of the 70th Week, or when the Beast kills the Saints, they came out of the 2000 year Church Age. I would IMAGINE you think the Tribulation they came out of was the 70th Week troubles via the Anti-Christ/Beast, but that is not the time period they came out of, they came out of the CHURCH AGE TRIBULATION. There was MUCH TRIBULATION during the 2000 some odd year Church age, many Christians died, Jesus told us we would always have Tribulation. 

2 hours ago, Marlene S said:

I also never said that the 144,000 are Humans who have died. They are alive on Earth when the mission comes to them. They do not receive protection in the world and they do not flee to Judea, they are roaming across the Earth, as they are hunted by the Anti-Christ and Satan. This group will be much persecuted.

I believe this is what Jesus meant by this verse:

There is no Mission, them Preaching is not in the Bible, following Men' Traditions even when shown it is not factual only leads us down wrong paths sister. So just because you always BELIEVED they were Preachers like I did, THEY AREN'T Preachers, and the bible never calls them that so why do we keep saying they are ? God can't teach us truths if we are willing to cling to untruths. Nowhere does any of what you stated appear in the bible, period. 

2 hours ago, Marlene S said:

Matthew Chapter 25: 31-46

 

Those verses are about a time AFTER Jesus and the Church return to earth, starting the 1000 year reign, the 144,000 are in the 70th Week, not after the 70th Week. 

2 hours ago, Marlene S said:

Here is something else:

Daniel Chapter 11:31-33

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

I gave you a LINK where I describe who every King is in Dan. 11, and what each verse means. The BELOW covers the section above via copy & paste.....

Dan. 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Antiochus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan altar unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but it's not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there, but as we can see, Antiochus Epiphanes served Zeus, thus he can not be the Willful King of verse 36 as many think, because he served no gods. This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. In the end many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so, but alas, they paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

 

TRANSITION PERIOD

I think this three verse passage covers a 2000 some odd year stretch of time. It reaches from the Maccabean Revolt all the way unto the end times via verse 35 where it states even to the time of the end, which is a yet to be appointed time !! We see in verse 33 that many will understand but fall by the sword, flame, captivity, many days, this sounds like the early church Saints also, they understood, and thus Rome killed them in many violent ways, and when they fall they will be helped with a little help (Holy Spirit), but many will believe Satan's lies (flatteries). Verse 35 keeps up the 2000 year journey unto the end times, many will fall, be purged, made white (Jesus' blood) EVEN TO THE END TIMES !! Which is yet for a future time to be APPOINTED!  Then we see the Anti-Christ starting in verse 36. I think verse 33 is the Maccabean Revolt, and maybe the early Christian Church, then verses 34 and 35 transition via the whole 2000 year Church Age unto the end time !! The transition is a little convoluting and confuses many, some think Antiochus Epiphanes is the character that runs from Daniel 11:21 all the way to verse 45, some think its the Anti-Christ character that runs from verse 21 all the way to verse 45. Both sides seemingly can't see the transition that I see in verses 33-35. It's there, we just have to look a little deeper, it thus is the transition period between the two characters. 

 

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