Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[Heb 13:8]

12 hours ago, ZacharyB said:

BACs who continue to practice habitual sin without repentance cannot help but have evil fruit,

were never believers to begin with. repent of your false doctrine zach. Jesus is way better God bless

[discipler777]

32 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

" At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” " (John 10:22-10, NASB, emphasis mine)

You may wish to be careful that what you claim is not contradicting Scripture.

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JOHN.10:7-10 (NKJV) = 7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

JOHN.17:11-12 & 15 (NKJV) = Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. ...

¹⁵ I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

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JOHN.10:22 -30 was referring to the Apostles of Christ, and not to ordinary Christians or to you and me. God made sure that none of the 12 Apostles were lost, including the 12th apostle Paul, eg by speaking to them directly and audibly.

After the death of Jesus Christ, the 11 apostles fled back to their respective hometowns and to their old jobs, disillusioned about the ministry of Jesus Christ. After His resurrection, for 40 days, Jesus Christ had to Personally called them back into faith, eg while Peter was back to fishing as a fisherman. (JOHN.21:1-3 = 1 After these things Jesus showed Himself again to the disciples at the Sea of Tiberias, and in this way He showed Himself: ² Simon Peter, Thomas called the Twin, Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two others of His disciples were together. ³ Simon Peter said to them, “I am going fishing.” ...)

You may wish to be careful that you do not misinterpret Scripture out of context. ?

Edited November 6, 2018 by discipler777

[Guest shiloh357]

42 minutes ago, Betha said:

why don't you look at Rom 6 (23) for the wages of sin is DEATH...NOT eternal life.

For the sinner.    The whole verse says, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."   So for those outside of Christ, they receive the wages of sin. But for those in Christ, we have eternal life as a gift from God. 

 

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not only do we need to repent to be forgiven we are to STOP SINNING....read the whole chapter plus many other scriptures telling us that sinners will not inherit the Kingdom

There is no expectation that a Christian will never sin.   But Christians don't live in sin; we are not looking for a way to sin.   But those who do not inherit the Kingdom are those who have not been saved.  Romans 8 tells me that I am an heir of God and a joint heir with Jesus, and that is because I have been born again. 

 

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....we need to be washed and cleansed of them to spend eternity with a Holy God !

But we do not accomplish that through our works.  We are cleansed by the blood of Jesus. 

 

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look at the parable of the wedding guest who tried to attend just as he was....see what happened to him Mat 22v11-13

But that doesn't apply to believers.   Sorry, but salvation isn't by works, nor are we saved by any merit of our own.   Salvation isn't something we strive to earn or deserve.  It is a free gift of God. 

And besides, you likely have committed sins you don't remember and thus have not repented of.   if salvation depends on us getting everything right, if it depends on us remembering and confessing every sin, no one saved.

[Guest shiloh357]

12 minutes ago, Betha said:

Well...i never said 'they could be snatched out of his hand'.

what Heb 6 is saying 'if they should fall away'

two quite different meanings !

Hebrews 6 isn't talking about apostasy.   If you read the entire context starting at Hebrews 5:11, you will notice that the complaint isn't that they are living in sin, but that they are spiritually immature. 

The word for "fall away" in the Greek isn't the word for apostasy; but is the word "peripiptos" and is used to describe someone like a runner who falls to the side because he is not conditioned to finish the race.    The complaint being made is that readers are not running the race as they should, but are stagnate and immature. They are not apostates, but neither are they  growing.  So this is not about someone who falls away from the faith in Hebrews 6.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Betha said:

you are outright contradicting  Heb 6v4,5,6 that tell us they were enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit and were  also endowed with other blessings !!! how can you then say 'they never were ???

so many people start these false rumours in order to uphold their OSAS stance. time for them to repent !

That is talking about believers, but not talking about apostates; it is talking about believers who are immature in the faith.   Anyone who apostatizes was never saved to start with, though.   

A true Christian will never apostatize.

[discipler777]

2 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Nice try, but if someone can remove themselves from Christ's hand, that counters "no one" in Scripture. It's kind of hard to take "no one" out of context there; it means  no one. And if a person can lose their salvation", then that means they removed themselves from Christ's hand.

All of that said: you may wish to make sure of your own argument before posting it.

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1TIMOTHY.4:1-3 (NKJV) = The Great Apostasy

4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

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MATTHEW.10:32-33 = Confess Christ Before Men

32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

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Didn't Peter deny Jesus Christ 3 times before the cock crow.? = Apostle Peter had denied the faith/Christ and was disillusioned by the arrest and torture of Jesus Christ. That was why after His resurrection, Jesus Christ had to call Peter back into faith and clear the doubts/unbelief of Thomas by appearing to them Personally. Hence, none or not-one of the Apostles were lost except the son of perdition. IOW, no one was able to snatch the Apostles out of the Father’s/Jesus's hand.

Other ordinary Christians may not be as lucky as the 12 Apostles, ie to be called back into faith Personally by Jesus Christ after they have denied the faith/Christ or renounced the faith(= apostasy) or left/departed from the faith or lost faith.

All of that said: you may wish to make sure of your own argument before posting it. ?

Edited November 6, 2018 by discipler777

[discipler777]

On 10/22/2018 at 9:56 AM, ZacharyB said:

At the moment you were born-again …

you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

.......

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Brilliant post. Good job.

[discipler777]

On 10/22/2018 at 7:47 PM, Cobalt1959 said:

So in other words, you are either trying to teach some kind of holiness doctrine, or you are trying to teach salvation thru works.  Neither position is viable.

If Jesus did not sacrifice Himself for all of our sins, past, present and future, then He did not sacrifice Himself for any of them.

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LEVITICUS.4: (NKJV) = The Sin Offering

4:1 Now the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a person sins unintentionally against any of the commandments of the Lord in anything which ought not to be done, and does any of them, 3 if the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer to the Lord for his sin which he has sinned a young bull without blemish as a sin offering. ...

27 ‘If anyone of the common people sins unintentionally by doing something against any of the commandments of the Lord in anything which ought not to be done, and is guilty, 28 or if his sin which he has committed comes to his knowledge, then he shall bring as his offering a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he has committed. ...

32 ‘If he brings a lamb as his sin offering, he shall bring a female without blemish.

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JOHN.1:29 = 29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

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ROMANS.5: = Death in Adam, Life in Christ

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. ...

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

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We need to first breakdown sins/evil-works-deeds into unintentional and intentional/wilful sins. As per LEVITICUS.4, only unintentional sins/evil-works-deeds/Law-breaking were forgiven by God after being acknowledged, repented of and animal sacrifices offered by the sinners/evildoers/Law-breakers = no curses/judgments of God would befall the unintentional sinners.

The Law has no provision for intentional/wilful sins to be forgiven by making an offering to God = the intentional sinners would have to suffer the curses/judgments of God for their intentional sins, eg calamities, terrors or even a quick death depending on the severity of the sin/evil-work/deed, ie according to the law of ni4ni.(1CORINTHIANS.5:5 & 11:30, 1JOHN.5:16-17)

Adam's Original Sin(AOS) was an intentional sin which all humans have unintentionally inherited from Adam or are unintentionally born with AOS = all humans are bound for the curse/judgment of hell(= the spiritual death of GENESIS.2:17 & 3:19) if there is no worthy sin offering to atone for AOS. Hence, Jesus Christ came down to earth to die on the Cross as the Sin Offering or Lamb of God for the forgiveness of unintentionally inherited AOS = saving all believers from hell.

So, Jesus Christ was sacrificed for our unintentionally inherited AOS and other unintentional sins/evil-works-deeds/Law-breaking, past, present and future = no need to suffer the curses/judgments of God if the unintentional sins have been acknowledged and repented of.(1JOHN.2:1-2) Not so for our intentional/wilful sins, past, present and future. ...

HEBREWS.10:26-31 = 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

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In fact, intentional/wilful and ignorant sins(= ignore the OT Law) may even cause the suffering Christian sinners to lose their salvation through the losing of faith, leaving/departing from the faith, denying of the faith(= denying Christ), renouncing of the faith, etc.(eg JOB.2:9) Hence, "go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you".(JOHN.5:14 & 8:11) ...

1CORINTHIANS.6:9-10 = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

REVELATION.22:12-17 = Jesus Testifies to the Churches

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

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Nevertheless, God/Jesus still has the authority/power to even forgive intentional/wilful or ignorant sins and thereby remove His curses/judgments from the repentant sinners, eg the healings, deliverances and exorcisms performed by Jesus Christ and His apostles, the forgiveness of Job, David and Paul, etc. This is similar to the authority/power of the US President to pardon convicted criminals. But those powers are seldom exercised by God or the US President. Normally, the Law is allowed to run its course against intentional sinners/criminals, eg murderers, thieves, rapists, defrauders, etc.

Still, the most important point here is that salvation is solely through faith in Jesus Christ and non-salvation is solely through non-faith in Jesus Christ, no matter the intentional or unintentional sins. Be like Job and Paul, and not like Job's wife and Ananias and Sapphira. ...

2TIMOTHY.4:6-8 = Paul’s Valedictory

6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Edited November 6, 2018 by discipler777

[Heb 13:8]

11 hours ago, Betha said:

you are outright contradicting  Heb 6v4,5,6 that tell us they were enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit and were  also endowed with other blessings !!! how can you then say 'they never were ???

so many people start these false rumours in order to uphold their OSAS stance. time for them to repent !

Hi Betha. Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:26-27 are actually a cross reference for the crucifixion of Christ and is using metaphorical language to describe the maturity of believers in Christ. Not many understand that Heb 6 thought process actually begins at Heb 5:11.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the (mature), who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Heb 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to (maturity), not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 

This has nothing to do with losing salvation, less one believes God throws believers into hell for lack of maturity, which is on the borderline of insanity. OSAS is in Eph 1:13-14 and Rom 8:33-39 among many. God bless.

[Heb 13:8]

11 hours ago, Betha said:

why don't you look at Rom 6 (23) for the wages of sin is DEATH...NOT eternal life.

Rom 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.