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Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!


ZacharyB

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On 10/21/2018 at 8:56 PM, ZacharyB said:

At the moment you were born-again …

you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

My "two cents": 

Romans 8:1

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

So if you try to convince me that I have to worry abut a sin not yet committed, you are "outa gas".

Now you might think of repenting of misrepresenting the true Gospel.

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discipler777 said:

In fact, intentional/wilful and ignorant sins(= ignore the OT Law) may even cause the suffering Christian sinners to lose their salvation through the losing of faith, leaving/departing from the faith, denying of the faith(= denying Christ), renouncing of the faith, etc.(eg JOB.2:9) Hence, "go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you".(JOHN.5:14 & 8:11) ...

Nevertheless, God/Jesus still has the authority/power to even forgive intentional/wilful or ignorant sins and thereby remove His curses/judgments from the repentant sinners, eg the healings, deliverances and exorcisms performed by Jesus Christ and His apostles, the forgiveness of Job, David and Paul, etc. This is similar to the authority/power of the US President to pardon convicted criminals. But those powers are seldom exercised by God or the US President. Normally, the Law is allowed to run its course against intentional sinners/criminals, eg murderers, thieves, rapists, defrauders, etc.

Still, the most important point here is that salvation is solely through faith in Jesus Christ and non-salvation is solely through non-faith in Jesus Christ, no matter the intentional or unintentional sins. Be like Job and Paul, and not like Job's wife and Ananias and Sapphira. ...

7 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

You keep hinting around that anyone not agreeing with you is not saved, or will somehow lose their salvation.  And I report you every single time you do it.

.

JOHN.3:14-21 (NKJV) 

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

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4 hours ago, Eliptic01 said:

My "two cents": 

Romans 8:1

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

So if you try to convince me that I have to worry abut a sin not yet committed, you are "outa gas".

Now you might think of repenting of misrepresenting the true Gospel.

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2TIMOTHY.3:1-9 (NKJV) = Perilous Times and Perilous Men

3:1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

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2THESSALONIANS.2:1- = The Great Apostasy

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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HEBREWS.6:4-8 = 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

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MATTHEW.7:15-23 = You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Edited by discipler777
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12 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Scripture doesn't go against Scripture; you forgot:

" Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. " (1 John 2:8-24, NASB, emphasis mine)

Scripture states that if someone "departs the faith", they were not a believer in the first place.

As for your claim of Peter departing: Jesus never said Peter had "been lost". Not to mention that what you're trying to say contradicts what you posted earlier:

20 hours ago discipler777 said:

Quote

20 hours ago discipler777 said:

JOHN.17:11-12 & 15 (NKJV) = Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. ...

 

(emphasis mine)

Since Judas hadn't betrayed them nor had Peter denied the Lord just yet, He was speaking of the immediate future. By claiming that Peter had to be "called back", you're saying here that Christ was either wrong or lying.

So with that said: you may wish to use your emojis more sparingly.

.

1JOHN.2:18-19 (NKJV) = Deceptions of the Last Hour

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

.

MATTHEW.24:15-16 & 23-24 = 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. ...

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

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LUKE.21:20-22 = 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

.

1JOHN.2:18-19 has to be looked at in the proper historical context of the time in order to not misinterpret Scripture. Who were the "antichrists" and what is "the last hour" of 1JOHN.2:18.? ...

After causing Jesus Christ to be crucified for not being the Christ/Messiah of their desires, ie one who would defeat the foreign Roman rulers and gift them back their kingdom of earth or Israel(JOHN.6:15), the Jews appointed antichrists or false christs for themselves to lead them into armed rebellion or holy war against the Romans = the First Jewish Roman War. This culminated in the Roman Army destroying the Jews and their Holy Temple of God in Jerusalem in 70AD = the last hour.

"The last hour" cannot be referring to the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ because John was writing to fellow Jewish Christians of his time("They went out from us, but they were not of us"), ie during the 1st century AD.

Who were those who "went out from us".?  They were some deceived Jewish Christians who had also hoped to be gifted back their kingdom of Israel, so they believed in the false christs or antichrists and joined in the Jewish armed rebellion against the Romans, instead of continuing to believe that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah/Saviour. IOW, salvation can be lost when a Christian no longer believes that Jesus is the Christ/Messiah/Saviour, eg by being deceived and going after  a false christ or antichrist as the 2nd Coming of the real/true Jesus Christ to earth approaches.(2THESS.2:9-12)

Fyi, the Muslims and Jews are also expecting the coming of Christ/Messiah or Mahdi to earth to avenge them against their enemies. How should Christians determine the real/true Christ from the false/antiChrist when news about "the Christ" Coming starts appearing everywhere.?

MATTHEW.16:15-20 = 15 He said to them, But who do you say that I am?

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

.

For someone to "depart from the faith"(1TIMOTHY.4:1), he/she has to be "in the faith" in the first place. Similarly, for someone to depart from Boston, he/she has to be in Boston in the the first place. So, only a Christian can depart from the faith in Christ. It's usually a self-deception, self-justification and false defense to state that apostates or those who left the faith of Christianity were not believers in the first place.

.

Quote

20 hours ago discipler777 said:

JOHN.17:11-12 & 15 (NKJV) = Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. ...

15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

.

Your quote left out the last sentence of my quote, ie verse 15, which stated that Jesus Christ had also prayed to God for the Apostles to be kept from the evil one, besides for them to be kept from being lost or to be kept in the faith. The prayer was actually answered by God for afterwards ...

Didn't Peter deny Jesus Christ 3 times before the cock crow.? = Apostle Peter had denied the faith/Christ and was disillusioned by the arrest and torture of Jesus Christ. That was why after His resurrection, Jesus Christ had to call Peter back into faith and clear the doubts/unbelief of Thomas by appearing to them Personally.(JOHN.20 & 21) This was how God had kept the 11 Apostles in the faith. Hence, none or not-one of the Apostles were lost(in faith) except the son of perdition. IOW, no one was able to snatch the 11 Apostles out of the Father’s/Jesus's hand, especially the evil one.

Other ordinary Christians may not be as lucky as the 11 or 12 Apostles, ie to be called back into faith Personally by Jesus Christ after they have denied the faith/Christ or renounced the faith(= apostasy) or left/departed from the faith or lost faith. Apostle Paul was also called back into true faith by the ascended Lord Jesus Christ.(ACTS.9)

God could have also kept Judas Iscariot in the faith by appearing to him after His resurrection and calling him back into faith but that was not His will, likely because Judas's sin of betrayal crossed the line or he was not repentant.

So with that said: you may wish to use your keyboard more sparingly. ?

 

Edited by discipler777
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5 hours ago discipler777 said:

So with that said: you may wish to use your keyboard more sparingly. ?

15 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

For this reason, both of you are placed on ignore; I will no longer directly address either of you, as you will not heed the Word of God and are teaching in error without any care whatsoever.

Goodbye.

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On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:50 PM, Willa said:

Having no formal teaching except for traditions like "making a list, checking it twice, gonna find out whose naughty and nice, Santa Claus is coming to town", this is what I believed when I first repented.  I didn't realize that salvation is a a free gift, by grace through faith, not of works.  So I thought I had a second chance to be good enough to go to heaven.  It was horrible bondage!  It is a lie of satan, and it took years to free me from it.

I know right! Imagine being stuck here in this group earning their way

Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV

 

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2 hours ago, Betha said:

NO, GOD'S WORKS are needed !!! but WE have to do them ! we need to walk in them  Eph 2v10

Dear Betha, by citing this verse, you essentially appear to contradict yourself:

Ephesians 2:10:

"For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life."

Therefore we need not worry whether our works are or can be "good enough", since all the works we can do were ready for us to do before we were born:

Jeremiah 1:5:

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I set you apart"

As for doing them, we have free will, but an Omnipotent God is an Omnipresent  Inescapable God, as Jonah found out after spending three days and nights in a big fish, and although he was reluctant, he realized he was up against an "Irresistible God".

2 hours ago, Betha said:

and 'falling away of your own accord is certainly NOT the same as 'being snatched out of God's  hand' by someone else.

The scripture does not actually say that we "fall away" of our own accord, but are in fact "led away" by deceivers, which if we do and are in God's Grace, then He will bring us back as in accordance with the parable of the Prodigal Son.

Edited by Eliptic01
clarity
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1 hour ago, Betha said:

in reply to MY post....God does not hold on to us AGAINST our will....His hand is not GRIPPING us tightly but remains open so we can show  and practice free will if we want to stay or leave. being 'snatched from him would involve a forceful act on someone elses' part, nor is it the same as falling from his hand by your own doing.

You dont understand that God gives those HE JUSTIFIES A NEW WILL. Scripture states we are made a NEW CREATION IN CHRIST. THROUGH THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THOSE JUSTIFIED ARE GIVEN THE MIND OF CHRIST THROUGH THE WORD OF GOD! 

You are deceived into thinking our works saves us. 

Those that are justified work BECAUSE they are saved and NOT to be saved. 

Which btw; I should say I have never had anyone associate Jonahs being in belly if whale and finally obeying with salvation! NEVER. 

How devastating it is to be working for something our work cannot obtain. 

WHERE DO YOU GET THIS KIND OF NONSENSE? Who has bewitched you?

We are saved by our faith( trust in the Lord) in grace( a free Gift by CHRIST who PAID THE ENTIRE PRICE) in Christ alone! 

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For me it is the material available and living substance using said material that needs to be examined:
Let's start with the things of this world we know inanimate objects cannot be sin in and of itself so one must ask why did God place curse upon it? This is necessary to understand in order to solve the problem of works; for partly it is the manipulation of said elements that these are claiming are necessary to gain entrance into Heaven... In the beginning God sanctified all the work of His Hands by placing His Stamp of approval of Being Gen 2:1-3 …  God gave dominion of all of it to His Image prior to the reiteration of creation in Gen 2... thus man in His endless sinless state was given dominion over the breath of life. The reiteration occurring in Gen 2 was due to the fact after the sanctification Lucifer the awesome covering cherub has rebelled from his position and challenges God to His position as God for now the angel has morphed into lie, thinking he could be god, which is the begin of evil hence that which did not exist prior to the sanctification now being with no place in God's creation as enemy of God... this now represented in the garden by the tree of knowledge of good and evil which was not in Gen 1 or else you have God sanctifying evil and that is heresy... the substance of evil has no created place by God at this time but the knowledge of it! God warned His loved ones of this tree that in the day of eating of it they would die... why very simply there is no place for evil in God (ever) or God's creation at this time and ingesting is to take evil into ones being whereby then lie can only abide with a distant memory of other (truth) … satan's only way of rebelling against The Persons of God was to say there was a way and using the gifts God had given Lucifer originally was to heighten the angels glorying in God for what God had designed and made... satan stole from purpose of and used to convince these magnificent creatures of his ability to be god-this being the substance of lie an empty set feeding totally off of truth even to exist like cancer the appearance of cell but only destroys cell life... This moves us to the fall and the exchange of dominion- they did eat and died that day, that moment of disobedience and the dominion of the earth was passed from them to satan. This why the earth was cursed by God for the evil which has no place now possessed the dominion of the creation of God and set into motion death as we know it by 1st birth... it is also the reason the brother of Jesus says this of the creation

Jude 23-25

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
KJV
It is here most of our teachers fail us in understanding of this passage below:

1 Cor 3:10-15

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


Here I want to remind everyone the Spiritual substance of the foundation is not of this world

John 8:23

23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
KJV
 

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
note: it is out of the desperation of satan to maintain control over us by 1st creation instance a great many claim
gold, silver, precious stones are eternal everlasting works and the wood, hay, stubble; are the works that will burn up...
but is error and the import of all that is eternal hinges on the understanding  of this error below:

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
KJV

This fire here is seen and further explain in the nature of and what it will do in Peter's letters and also in John's Revelation:

1 Peter 1:7

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
KJV

2 Peter 3:7-11

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 ***Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,***
KJV  
this the substance and point of which I have written

Rev 21:1-6

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
KJV


Connecting the points as to the manipulation of things that pass away (the works of man hands) ceases to exist and everyone that has tied their hopes in the manipulation of such things to gain entrance into everlasting of God has failed in the council of God's Word about such things... We do simply, out of obedience to God, without consideration of the thing used as any value at all... this removes any power of dominion satan uses to control us or take from us any value that lies in our hearts whatsoever...
The ones that come to us to declare the necessity of works to keep salvation clearly do not understand the council of God and are actually encouraging the use of taking idols of the 1st created instance before a Holy righteous God hating even in His Own Heart the thought of the garment as any value whatsoever in that place and time.... 

 

 

 

 

Edited by enoob57
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On 11/5/2018 at 9:39 AM, shiloh357 said:

There is nothing in the Bible that says that Christians can lose salvation over sin they have not repented of.

2 Corinthians 7:8-10   Paul writing to believers, of course ...

"godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation".

Edited by ZacharyB
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