PRE, MID or POST TRIBULATION RAPTURE?

[OldCoot]

And the birth pains / labor pains are expounded upon in many OT passages.  I especially like this one....

Isaiah 66:7-8 Before she was in labor, she gave birth;
Before her pain came,
She delivered a male child.
8 Who has heard such a thing?
Who has seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor,
She gave birth to her children.

Many suppose that this is the birth of modern Israel.  How can Israel give birth to Israel in a  day?  That makes no sense.  But... the nation being born (brought forth) at once is the Church which is a nation....

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

And this all corresponds to Revelation 12.   The woman giving birth to the child who is caught up (harpazo / rapturo) as soon as it is born.  It cannot be Yeshua personally in view, as He was never "harpazo" / caught up / rapturo at His birth.  But the Body of Messiah, well it will be "harpazo" / caught up / rapturo.  

The Church was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Jerusalem and has been growing.  It will be born / brought forth in the future and raptured to heaven.  "Zion" in Isaiah is the same term for the city of Jerusalem.

The parable of the Pearl expresses that same idea.  (Matthew 13:45-46).  

A oyster is not kosher, symbolic of the world.  A pearl (the church) starts as irritation in the oyster (the world).  It grows by accretion over time.  At the right time, it is removed from the oyster to become an item of adornment.

Yeshua gave us so many examples it boggles the mind how so many cannot see them.

Edited November 3, 2018 by OldCoot

[KiwiChristian]

    THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS CHRIST TO EARTH

Aim: 1. To summarise Bible teaching on the Second coming.

        2. To motivate Christians to fervently serve Christ in view of Christ’s return at any time and our         accountability to Him. 

A.     FACT OF CHRIST’S RETURN 

    Jesus promised it (John 14:1-3). Angels promised it (Acts 1:8-11). 
B.     WHEN WILL CHRIST RETURN 

    No human or angel knows when (Matthew 24:36). 
    We can, however, observe some signs in the world today indicating that Christ’s return may be near: 

C.     SIGNS OF CHRIST’S RETURN 

1.    Return of the Jews to the land of Israel (Ezekiel 37:1-14,21-28; Matthew 24:32,33; Joel 1:6,7) 
2.    Rise of Russia as an anti-Israel power (Ezekiel 38-39). 
3.    Rise of 10-nation revived Roman Empire in Europe (Daniel 2:40-44; 7:7-28, Revelations 13). 
4.    Ability of man to destroy the earth (Revelations 11:18). 
5.    Increase in travel and knowledge in the time of the end. (Daniel 12:4). 
6.    Ecumenical movement including the World Council of Churches and Rome leading to a One-World religious system called “Mystery Babylon” in Revelations 17-18. 
7.    One world money system (Revelations 13:16-18). 

D.     WHY STUDY CHRIST’S SECOND COMING? 

1.    About one quarter of the Bible refers to it. 
2.    Christ taught it. (Matthew 24-25) 
3.    It increases our desire to serve God in winning souls and making disciples, because Jesus may come today, requiring us to give account of our life to Him. (1 John 2:28; Matthew 24:42-44). 
4.    God blesses those who read the prophecy of Revelation. (Revelation 1:3). 
5.    It tells of ultimate victory for Christ and the believer, and his forces. This is why Satan doesn’t want us to study and teach it. 
6.    It encourages us in our trials that the spiritual war will soon be over, guaranteeing us peace forevermore. 

E.     WHAT ARE THE ORDER OF EVENTS IN GOD’S PROGRAM? 

1.    THE CHURCH AGE from the Apostles (Ephesians 4:7-12) to the Rapture. The 7 Churches of Revelation 2 and 3 describe: 
1)    Church periods that this age is divided into. 
2)    Churches existing in John’s time. 
3)    The spiritual condition of any church at any time. 
4)    The spiritual condition of any believer at any time. When Jesus begins a parable with: “The Kingdom of heaven is like unto….” He is describing what the Church age or the outward form of Christendom will be like from Pentecost to the Rapture. 

2.     RAPTURE is the catching away of all dead and living believers from earth to heaven. This occurs when Christ comes to the air (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-54; 
    11 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Revelation 3:10; 4:1-2). This event ends the Church age. Then commences the 7 year Tribulation with the appearance of the Antichrist. 
    The Rapture is the “blessed hope” of Titus 2:13 that believers are waiting for. Believers will be raptured before the Tribulation period, and will not pass through any of it because: 

    1. We are looking for Christ to come (Titus 2:13). We are not looking for the Antichrist to confirm the covenant with Israel. (Daniel 9:27). 
    2. Christ’s coming is called a “blessed hope” and the Tribulation is not a blessed hope to look forward to going through. 
    3.  “God hath not appointed us to wrath . . .” (1 Thessalonians 5:9). 
    4. The Church and John are raptured at Revelation 4:1,2 which is before the start of the Tribulation. (Revelation 6:1). 
    5. The Tribulation is likened to Noah’s Flood and the Judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah where God spared the righteous. (Matthew 24:37). 
    6. God promises to keep the Philadelphian Church from (out of) the Tribulation period (Revelation 3:10). 
    7. If we are to be raptured midway or at the end of the Tribulation, we would know the day of Christ’s return, which no man knows. (Matthew 24:35). 

3.     THE 7 YEAR TRIBULATION is the greatest time of trouble that Jews or the world have ever seen. It is: 
a)     Divided into 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 vials (bowl) judgments. 
b)     Described in Revelation 6-18. 
c)     Stated in Matthew 24:21-22 and Daniel 12:1. 
d)     Ruled by the Antichrist (II Thessalonians 2:3-12; Revelation 13; Daniel 7:19-27) from the 10 nation Revived Roman Empire in Europe. 
e)     Lasts for 7 years. Daniel 9:27 (1 week means 1 group of seven years). In Matthew 24:21 the second half of the Tribulation is called the Great Tribulation. Revelation 11:1-3 states that it lasts 3 1/2 years, 42 months or 1260 days. It commences with the Antichrist placing the abomination of desolation in the rebuilt Temple at Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15 and Daniel 9:27) and the Antichrist persecuting the Jews. 

4.    JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST occurs after believers are raptured. It takes place in heaven during the first half of the 7 year Tribulation period. The quality of a believer’s works after salvation are examined. He either receives rewards or suffers loss of rewards.

Are you living for Christ and eternity or for self and this life only? What does Christ think of you? What rewards or treasures have you laid up in heaven? (Matthew 6:19-21).
MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB (Revelation 19:7-10). 

    The Church is known as the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:23-33). 
    The marriage and marriage supper between Christ and all raptured saints occurs in heaven before Christ and His saints return to the earth for the Battle of Armageddon. 

6.     SECOND COMING OF CHRIST TO EARTH 

a)     He comes with the saved. (Zechariah 14:5). 
b)     He comes with lightning speed. (Matthew 24:27-31). 
c)     He comes exactly 2520 days (2 x 1260 days) after the rapture. 

7.     BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON (Revelation 19:17-21; Zechariah 14:1-15). 

a)     At the end of the 7 year Tribulation, the Antichrist and armies of all nations gather around Israel to destroy all Jews and to take Jerusalem. (Revelation 16:12-16). 
b)     Christ and all the saved then return from heaven (Revelation 19:11-16). 
    Christ defeats the armies of Antichrist instantly at the plain of Megiddo (Revelation 14:14-20). The geography is like a winepress, and blood flows three feet deep for 200 miles. 

c)     After victory at Megiddo and Bozrah (Isaiah 63:1-6) Christ comes and stands on the Mount of Olives, which splits east-west (Zechariah 14:4). He then enters Jerusalem through the now closed East-Gate (Ezekiel 43:1,2). 
d)     Christ will then be King over all the earth and the people that attacked Jerusalem will be plagued by what seems to be nuclear explosions, which will dissolve their flesh (Zechariah 14:12-15; Isaiah 24:5-6). 

8.     JEWS ARE CONVERTED 

a)     After being rescued by Christ following Armageddon, Jews notice the wounds in Christ’s hands and realise that their ancestors crucified their long-awaited Messiah. (Zechariah 13:6). 
b)     This causes repentance and mourning, resulting in the Jewish people being saved by calling on Christ as their Saviour. (Zechariah 12:10 and 13:9). 
c)     The Jews all over the earth are then regathered into Israel. (Isaiah 43:5-7 and Matthew 24:31). 

9.     SATAN IS BOUND in the pit for 1000 years along with his angels. (Revelation 20:1-3). 

10.     THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD ARE JUDGED according to how they treated God’s people during the Tribulation. The righteous (sheep) enter the Millennium, and the others (goats) enter everlasting fire. (Matthew 25:31-46). 

11.     THE MILLENNIUM or 1000 year reign of Christ starts when Christ returns to the earth. What will this period be like? 
a)     Christ will regather all Jews to Israel (Isaiah 43:5-7). 
b)     Jerusalem becomes the world capital, from where Christ rules the earth in person 
    (Isaiah 2:1-4). 
c)     The Jews will become missionaries to the Gentiles (Isaiah 27:6; 61:6; Psalm 67:2). 
d)     Christ builds the Millennial Temple (Zechariah 6:12-15). 
e)     Animal creation will be changed (Isaiah 11:6-9 and 65:25). 
f)     Humans will live much longer (Isaiah 65:20-22; Zechariah 8:4), as long as trees, possibly 1000 years as before the Flood. 
g)     Peace and prosperity will characterise Christ’s rule (Isaiah 2:4) as will universal knowledge of the Lord and private ownership (Micah 4:1-4). 

SATAN IS LOOSED from his prison after the 1000 years and deceives the unsaved of the nations to invade Jerusalem. Fire from God devours them and Satan is then cast into the lake of fire forever (Revelation 20:7-10). 

13.     THE HEAVEN AND EARTH ARE THEN BURNT UP WITH FERVENT (NUCLEAR LIKE) HEAT (11 Peter 3:7-12). 
14.     THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT of the unsaved occurs where all the unsaved people are taken from hell and given immortal, resurrected bodies. This is the second resurrection or tare judgment. (Matthew 13:24-30,36-43). 
    They are then judged according to their works. Since the works that they have trusted in to gain God’s acceptance fall short of Christ’s perfect works, they are all cast alive into the..... 

15.     LAKE OF FIRE where they are tormented forever (Revelation 20:11-15). 

16.     ETERNITY then commences with a new heaven and new earth, as well as the New Jerusalem (1500 miles long, broad and high) coming down from God as the residence of the church (us) forever. (Revelation 21:22). 

 

reprinted with permission from Pastor Keith Piper. https://www.libertybaptistchurch.org.au/
 

[OldCoot]

7 minutes ago, KiwiChristian said:

The marriage and marriage supper between Christ and all raptured saints occurs in heaven before Christ and His saints return to the earth for the Battle of Armageddon. 

The only part of what you posted that I don't agree with.

The marriage does happen when the Messiah receives His bride (the Church) unto Himself, but the marriage banquet comes later.

The ancient Hebrew marriage is the symbolism in this....

1) the betrothal covenant is made between the groom and the bride.  The price is paid and the covenant is sealed by both sharing a cup of wine.

2) The groom returns to His father's place to prepare a marriage chamber (Chupah).  He will not be allowed to go get his bride until the father approves the Chupah.

3) if anyone asks the groom when the marriage will be, he must answer "only my father knows".

4) when it is time, the groom goes to the bride's home to receive her unto himself.  Usually at nighttime. The bride must be ready at all times as she does not know when the groom will come and get her.

5) they both return to the marriage Chupah and consummate the marriage.  They remain there for 7 days.

6)  At the end of the 7 days, they both emerge from the Chupah and the marriage feast/banquet begins. 

So the marriage feast/banquet will occur on earth after Messiah returns with His bride, the Church.   A marriage feast/banquet is not between a bride and groom only. That makes no sense.  It is a larger gathering.  Those that make it thru the GT period and are worthy of going into the Millennial Kingdom are the guests of the banquet.

[Mike Mclees]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 11:39 PM, LivingbyFaith said:

I'm not that knowledgeable of the bible, but when Jesus said, "Watch, for you know not what day or hour the Son of man comes", He did not say what year He would come, so how does that fit into any particular time period? It could still mean at the end of the trib!

?        End of Great Tribulation which is 3&1/2 the bride shall be taken at a time only known by the Father 

 

[OldCoot]

2 hours ago, Cletus said:

so you cant correlate the verses?  your mention of rev 12... satan being cast to earth... rev 2... behold the devil shall cast some of you into prison and ye shall have tribulation...  so if the devil is not cast down to earth how then will he persecute those in rev 2?  and if you study the letters in revelation to the churches its obvious.  but if you need to see the bible actually saying the church goes into the tribulation in those exact words then you are not really looking at what the bible DOES actually say.  God is specific with His words. 

the way the church will over come the devil by the blood of the Lamb and their testimony is by not loving their lives to the death.  that is tribulation.  the basic meaning for the term "the great tribulation" is grapes or olives in a vat being pressed about from all sides"  now ask yourself, what interest does God have in bad fruit? 

Rev 13:7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

now here we see in rev. 13 it says make war with the saints and overcome them... in the letters in the NT the word "saints"  is directed to the church, believers in Jesus.  it means sanctified ones, or those who are set apart as in set apart from the world and to God.  it also says 42 months which is a big clue as to when.  it sounds like tribulation all the way to me going down in the great trib.  again 42 months. 

Probably since Paul stated that Satan is the prince of the power of the air that I don’t see the legitimacy of your assertion that when Satan is cast to earth that this is when the church is put in prison, tribulation, etc

[SisterCess]

On 10/31/2018 at 3:02 PM, LivingbyFaith said:

Hi there, 

Just wondering...which rapture do you believe in - pre, mid or post tribulation and why?

I believe in the post tribulation rapture as Jesus says in His Word;

MATTHEW 24:3-35

3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ ^a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.24For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

26“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29“Immediately after the distress of those days

“ ‘the sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ ^b

30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth ^c will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. ^d 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it ^e is near, right at the door.34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

 

 

This is what the Lord revealed to me when I was in the moment of confusion regarding this matter.. Even prophet Sadhu also revealed the same revelation.. 

[LivingbyFaith]

25 minutes ago, SisterCess said:

This is what the Lord revealed to me when I was in the moment of confusion regarding this matter.. Even prophet Sadhu also revealed the same revelation.. 

Apparently, Prophet Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj is a false prophet!

[SisterCess]

On 11/4/2018 at 1:58 PM, LivingbyFaith said:

Apparently, Prophet Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj is a false prophet!

Why do you say so?? 

[Kristin]

I’m pre Trib and you can’t sway me. God told me about His love and care. I’m looking up for my sweet Lord❤️

[angels4u]

34 minutes ago, SisterCess said:

Why do you say so?? 

Who do you say he is?

He is a Hindu and a false prophet please don't fall for this false teaching of him and read the Bible for your self ,do you go to a good Bible believing church?