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How to remain sensible in debate


enoob57

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On 10/31/2018 at 4:25 PM, enoob57 said:

So could you show me how God instructs us to test the spirits? Do we test the spirits with the spirits?

1Co 12:3  Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

I actually have a friend who cannot utter the words "Jesus is Lord".  She says it is too hard!  

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8 hours ago, Willa said:

1Co 12:3  Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

I actually have a friend who cannot utter the words "Jesus is Lord".  She says it is too hard!  

Yes The Life is by the s/Spirit within us... and without it the study to show yourself approved will be head knowledge only. What I have found in my walk with The Lord thus far is the closer you get to the truth the more lies that surround it... the devil does not want us free!

John 8:31-32

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
KJV

 

Edited by enoob57
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On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 10:53 AM, Butero said:

Take a look at this mess, developed by pagans, named after an idol god named Hermes, and used by some Christians to interpret our Holy Bible.  Contrast that with the ways of Christ, to simply let the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth.  You choose which makes more sense?  

Again what do you use to test the spirits? I have noticed you have not answered that … it really sounds spiritual what you say 'let the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth' but how do you determine it is The Holy Spirit? God's warned us here has he not

2 Cor 11:14-15

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
KJV


and these people definitely thought they were following the leading of The Holy Spirit

Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV

How do people escape these real dangers?

 

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On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 7:04 AM, enoob57 said:

Again what do you use to test the spirits? I have noticed you have not answered that … it really sounds spiritual what you say 'let the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth' but how do you determine it is The Holy Spirit? God's warned us here has he not

2 Cor 11:14-15

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
KJV


and these people definitely thought they were following the leading of The Holy Spirit

Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV

How do people escape these real dangers?

 

I have read the Bible, hidden it in my heart, and when someone says something contrary to it, I recognize it.  That is how I measure things, by the Word of God.  I would never consider testing what someone says using a complicated pagan system of interpreting literature!  I just trust that the Spirit of God is our teacher and guide as the Lord said.  I believe Jesus.  

Let's take this conversation for a moment.  How do I test the spirits here?  I know what you are saying is not what Jesus said about how we will come to the truth, so I reject it.  There is nothing complicated here.  

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Is this a test?  :huh:

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2 hours ago, Butero said:

I have read the Bible, hidden it in my heart, and when someone says something contrary to it, I recognize it.  That is how I measure things, by the Word of God.

This is saying the subjective aspect of how I feel in my heart because I have read the Bible and hidden it in there is the authority … thus I subjectively am the authority by feelings.

2 hours ago, Butero said:

I would never consider testing what someone says using a complicated pagan system of interpreting literature! 

2 Tim 2:15

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
KJV


it is clear that the study of God's Word is work and division is necessary to see and must be recognized in order to maintain precept upon precept line upon line... understanding what is written >then< is >now< being read -one must know historical, cultural context is going to be a must. Then moving to grammar (written structure purpose) so what (IS) is (IS) because like all of God's Word: both living and written has structure and rules called scientific laws and grammatical laws... as nothing exist in the creative format that God has not regulated within boundaries.... mystical subjective approaches will be seen clearly in violation of these facts as objectivity becomes moot to those who enter those doors....

2 hours ago, Butero said:

I just trust that the Spirit of God is our teacher and guide as the Lord said.  I believe Jesus.  

Scripture is the objective authority

2 Tim 3:15-17

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV


The Holy Spirit was sent into the hearts of men so this authority would be adhered to objectively or else why write it down at all?

Matt 28:19-20

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
                                  
subjectively transferred from the hearts of the Disciples to written object source
KJV

John 14:26

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have
said unto you.
        All disciples of all times                                                                             written Scripture completed 


The Scripture by process was in the beginning, by the very fact of beginning,  a subjective aspect of new covenant, written by inspiration of The Holy Spirit from their hearts, with objective OT Scriptures, already written, aligned by division of law and grace being precept upon precepts line upon line into written objective format called God's completed Scriptures... We now have and according to 2Tim 3:15-17 everything of circumstance in living may be brought through the sieve of written Scripture to determine the s - Spirit of anything >Objectively< so that through all times and epochs we may have the same foundational resource available- so that men have no excuse...! They, men, may argue I thought, I feel, but the same objective structure of creation, of all things by beginning, may be seen in unity with the will of God in all matters of life and death both in creation and Scripture itself....

2 hours ago, Butero said:

Let's take this conversation for a moment.  How do I test the spirits here?  I know what you are saying is not what Jesus said about how we will come to the truth, so I reject it.  There is nothing complicated here.  

There is really no substance of Scripture to address in this comment. How you feel about something is how you feel but my understood authority lies with Scriptural study and applications ...

Edited by enoob57
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1 hour ago, LadyKay said:

Is this a test?  :huh:

In a way- as God's Word 'IS' part with Himself and God says this of Himself

Heb 12:29

29 For our God is a consuming fire.
KJV

1 Cor 3:15-19

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
KJV

 

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What it comes down to Enoob, is you see my methods as leaving me open to error for not considering history, while I see history as having gone through revisions and being untrustworthy.  That leads you into error.  You see simply taking passages verse by verse and trusting the Holy Spirit to be my guide as leaving the door open to be deceived, and I see using a pagan method of rules of interpretation as leading to error, and I am also saying the Bible doesn't obeys Hermes' laws of literature. 

You are trying to measure a Holy Book using a pagan devised method.  You can't even follow it to the letter, given that prophecy will turn up in strange places, which Hermes doesn't allow for, so you have to compromise.  Next is the problem that Hermeneutics can be interpreted as literal or figurative, two distinct methods.  With all of those rules and supposed safe guards to supposedly avoid error, not all who use it come to the same conclusions.  I found some Jesus only Apostolic believers defending Hermeneutics.  It doesn't work.  Each one accusing the other of sloppy Hermeneutics isn't a serious defense.  

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Written words have laws or rules assign assigned grammatically and you assigning this to a make believe greek god is in my opinion is ridiculous... because long before the make believe greek god Hermes there was written communication so what make believe god did that and then originally God had Moses write and I guess your philosophy breaks down there!

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28 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Written words have laws or rules assign assigned grammatically and you assigning this to a make believe greek god is in my opinion is ridiculous... because long before the make believe greek god Hermes there was written communication so what make believe god did that and then originally God had Moses write and I guess your philosophy breaks down there!

They had better sense back then than to see the need to create a complicated list of rules of interpretation.  I am not disputing the existence of written communication.  What we should be asking is how they got by all those years without Hermeneutics, but they did!  

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