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Amos 8:11-12


S.C.1

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Hi folks, in my thinking of what has been written on this topic, considering the "times" that we find ourselves in, from a church or christian perspective. This is no time for complacency, I believe that God is looking for those who will stand up for the Truth, no compromise, defend the Faith, defend His Word, be about His business daily. We have no time to waste, as Zemke said, we're at the "midnight hour." As always, hope this is helpful, be blessed.

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It may seem like semantics, but consider the following questions.  Would you say that they heard them?  Would you say that they are hearing them today?  If your answer is yes to either or both of those questions, then how do you explain the crucifixion and their continuing in unbelief  (Messianic Jews excluded of course) ?

Semantics? How would you define the words of the Lord, the oracles of God, the holy scripture? We better stop now because we're about to go in circles.

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7 hours ago, S.C.1 said:

How many have the contention that Amos 8:11-12 had already been fulfilled?

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

Did the word of God actually disappear? Just curious on your thoughts. Not what Doctor so and so had to say on the matter.

Hi S.C.1.

According to my chart Amos was a pre-exilic prophet between 800 and 750BC when the Kings of Israel and Judah were still reigning. His writings warn  that the nations are about to be judged, firstly those surrounding Israel and Judah, and then Israel and Judah. Israel is dealt with in detail with an outline of her great responsibility, her unheeded chastening, God's appeal to seek Him, the ensuing captivity, visions from God, sins to be judged, an altar of judgment, and finally Israel's restoration.

Many prophecies have both a local and a future fulfillment. Amos:8:11-12 is one of them. Without a doubt there was a famine of hearing the words of the Lord for those taken into captivity firstly when Israel fell in 722BC, and again when Judah fell in 586BC. The heavy dependence on the temple which was destroyed, and rituals of Mosaic Law which were now unobservable, threw the Israelites into despair as noted in Psalm 137, but the scarcity of those actually hearing the words of the Lord in a spiritual sense had begun much earlier than the 70 year capitivity, when backsliding and idolatry were preferred to obeying God's Word, much as they still are among the unregenerate nations today.  

Psa 137:1-6
(1)  By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
(2)  We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.
(3)  For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.
(4)  How shall we sing the LORD'S song in a strange land?
(5)  If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
(6)  If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.

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42 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

According to my chart

Hi Michael!

What chart sir?

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35 minutes ago, S.C.1 said:

Hi Michael!

What chart sir?

My trusty trifold laminated colour-coded Bible Overview Chart by Kenneth E. Malberg that I bought some 30 years ago.

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1 minute ago, Michael37 said:

My trusty trifold laminated colour-coded Bible Overview Chart by Kenneth E. Malberg that I bought some 30 years ago.

Kewl beans. My favorite references are the 18th and 19th-century books online at Google Books. Spurgeon, Edwards, etc...

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4 hours ago, S.C.1 said:

Semantics? How would you define the words of the Lord, the oracles of God, the holy scripture? We better stop now because we're about to go in circles.

 

I think maybe you misunderstood what I was getting at, which is my fault for lack of clarity, so let me try to say this in a different way.  The wording in the passage speaks to something deeper than words on a piece of paper.  Hearing the word.  There are people who will get up and go to church on a weekly basis that are not believers, maybe they are going through the motions for any number of reasons, some to appease a spouse, some to appease parents, whatever the reason.  The point is, only those who God enables to hear Him will hear Him, through the Holy Spirit.

Throughout the Old Testament prophets writings you will find numerous examples of God admonishing Israel for not hearing Him, only the faithful remnant would repent and listen to the prophets.  It is a repetitive theme in the Old Testament.  It is also why I said in my opening post to you, that the answer is not a simple yes or no answer, because by all appearances the nation of Israel ( except once again the faithful remnant) are still not hearing Him.  If they heard Him, they would accept that Jesus Christ was and is their Messiah.

Another thing to watch for in the prophecies, is that whenever the prophecy is addressed to Jacob, it is specifically in regards to the direct descendants of Jacob, no one else.  This is true in the chapter in question, and all of the surrounding chapters regarding the same subject.  It is the exact terminology that distinguishes the nation of Israel regarding Jacob's time of trouble, and numerous other examples in scripture.  If you see Jacob addressed in the body of the passage, or specific geographical information in regards to the land Jacob's descendants were promised, it has nothing to do with Gentiles.

God bless

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7 hours ago, wingnut- said:

I think maybe you misunderstood what I was getting at, which is my fault for lack of clarity, so let me try to say this in a different way. 

No sir, I pretty much knew where you may be leading from the get go.

7 hours ago, wingnut- said:

The point is, only those who God enables to hear Him will hear Him, through the Holy Spirit.

I wouldn't argue that point in the least.

7 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Throughout the Old Testament prophets writings you will find numerous examples of God admonishing Israel for not hearing Him, only the faithful remnant would repent and listen to the prophets.  It is a repetitive theme in the Old Testament.  It is also why I said in my opening post to you, that the answer is not a simple yes or no answer, because by all appearances the nation of Israel ( except once again the faithful remnant) are still not hearing Him.  If they heard Him, they would accept that Jesus Christ was and is their Messiah.

Simplicity is there, however. But dispensationalism also is there in your explanation, which I can not necessarily agree with. Or am I totally missing the point?

7 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Another thing to watch for in the prophecies, is that whenever the prophecy is addressed to Jacob, it is specifically in regards to the direct descendants of Jacob, no one else.  This is true in the chapter in question, and all of the surrounding chapters regarding the same subject.  It is the exact terminology that distinguishes the nation of Israel regarding Jacob's time of trouble, and numerous other examples in scripture.  If you see Jacob addressed in the body of the passage, or specific geographical information in regards to the land Jacob's descendants were promised, it has nothing to do with Gentiles.

Do you subscribe to the opinions of Clarence Larkin and/or Cyrus Ingerson Scofield? If their opinions are reflected in the answer then dispensationalism is your key. My personal belief, which is also a historical view, is that Isreal is being continued by the church. Not a dispensational view at all.

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3 hours ago, S.C.1 said:

Simplicity is there, however. But dispensationalism also is there in your explanation, which I can not necessarily agree with. Or am I totally missing the point?

 

I would say your aversion to dispensationalism is getting in the way of certain unavoidable details.  Set it aside completely, and just from Revelation 12 alone one can see two distinct and separate groups being dealt with in two very different ways. 

 

3 hours ago, S.C.1 said:

Do you subscribe to the opinions of Clarence Larkin and/or Cyrus Ingerson Scofield? If their opinions are reflected in the answer then dispensationalism is your key. My personal belief, which is also a historical view, is that Isreal is being continued by the church. Not a dispensational view at all.

 

No, I do not subscribe to their opinions, nor am I a dispensationalist.

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On 11/1/2018 at 11:48 AM, S.C.1 said:

How many have the contention that Amos 8:11-12 had already been fulfilled?

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

Did the word of God actually disappear? Just curious on your thoughts. Not what Doctor so and so had to say on the matter.

There was NO PROPHET in Judah from Malachi to John the Baptist. How many years was that? 400 years?

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