ROMANS 14 and homosexuality

[enoob57]

9 minutes ago, artsylady said:

I am not sure why you steered the question about Jesus and the fact that he clearly cautioned against being judgemental, prideful and self righteous and never against being homosexual?  Why did you change the subject?

The spirit of God in Paul also said women shouldn't cut their hair and that they should not speak in church.  Do you believe this to be a rule all Christian women should follow?

Because the definition of precept upon precept and line upon line here a little there a littel is not being followed by you and your focus and painting the whole picture by just one part is actually using Scripture to your own end...  The whole council of God must be applied or else error will ensue... That verse you particularly use >is< when taken through the whole sieve of Scripture telling us we do not know the hearts of men; we can only judge by their fruit what they are -BUT- we are to judge their fruit and speak to that -BUT- because we cannot see their heart we cannot judge them to heaven or hell! 

Edited November 15, 2018 by enoob57

[artsylady]

1 minute ago, maryjayne said:

You are now questioning the truth of the whole Bible being the inspired Word of God. Either the words in the bible about homosexuality are from God, regardless of who wrote them, or they are not.

and 

are opposites.

You have introduced another argument concerning Paul and women, then told others to stick to the argument. You cant have it both ways.

Please calm down. No I am not.  Not in any way.   I wish you would stop reading what I am saying in an attempt to criticize it before you can consider if because you are getting what I am saying wrong.  Just take a minute to think before you 'speak'.

 

  I am reminding you of the fact  that while Jesus did not talk of homosexuality, he did talk of judgementalism, pride and self righteousness and to me.  

Have a good day.  I have work to do.   

[artsylady]

14 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

 

You have introduced another argument concerning Paul and women, then told others to stick to the argument. You cant have it both ways.

I don't really understand why he started changing the subject, but while he's at it, what about women cutting hair and not talking in the church?  Do these rules apply today?  It is very relevant.

[discipler777]

41 minutes ago, artsylady said:

 I am going to err on the side of being non judgmental, humble, hoping and seeing the best in people, and loving.  ...

After all, it's not up to me to judge.  I am just supposed to love.  I leave it up to God to judge as he said we are supposed to do.

.

1CORINTHIANS.5:9-13 (NKJV) = Immorality Must Be Judged

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

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1CORINTHIANS.2:13-16 = 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

 

MATTHEW.6:16-18 & 7:1-6 = Fasting to Be Seen Only by God

6:16 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. ...

Do Not Judge

7:1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

.

HEBREWS.5: = Spiritual Immaturity

12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

.

Hypocrites and spiritually immature Christians should not be the judge of others. They should learn more Scripture and judge themselves  first(2TIMOTHY.3:16-17, 1CORINTHIANS.11:27-34), and not learn from outside sources or non-scripture, eg those bleeding-hearts who follow the world and tolerate, condone or love unrepentant "Christian" homosexuals in Church.

Edited November 15, 2018 by discipler777

[Billiards Ball]

On 11/14/2018 at 10:17 AM, artsylady said:

I am out of time for today.  I could get caught up all day long but that's not healthy or good.  Besides, there are too many here, not you, who would refuse to rethink etc.

Justin had a happy child - no daddy, mommy issues - no childhood issues.  

Very quickly, you talk about people who turn gay due to an unhappy house or fatherhood or whatever.  MANY also experience unhappy households etc and ARE not gay and are far from it.   You know this. 

Can you give some thought that hormonal issues due to a corrupted and manipulated environment might just be at play here?  

Again, if you're counselling people, please give ample, reasonable thought to the other side.

  I'll go back to the lowest common denominator, here to.  Let's cut to the chase. 

David was "a man after God's own heart", yet a polygamist.  Comments please.  Also, it seemed God was ok with his many wives, just not the one who was married to someone else.  Am I wrong?  

I understand, but:

1) Justin's childhood is promoted by Justin only, Justin having an agenda.

2) I consider genetics, hormones, etc. Will you consider the psychologist who counseled 300 gay men, finding the same among 298, with no Christian agenda?

3) The Torah specifically says kings of Israel are not to be polygamous. David paid a heavy price for what he did. Likewise, the Bible records the sin of many persons, without saying "It's okay with God to sin."

[Billiards Ball]

1 hour ago, artsylady said:

Google 'study fish gay' and you will see that there are studies showing that due to mankinds 'brilliance', our water has been compromised and there are studies showing fish that now exhibit homosexual tendencies and transgenderism and a particular pesticide can turn male frogs into females.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080216095726.htm
https://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs/

http://naturalsociety.com/studies-chemicals-in-the-water-turning-male-fish-into-females/

Surely you must be aware that the meat and dairy industry use growth hormones and estrogen.  

You might also want to consider the fact that decades long use of the birth control pill has caused damage to the ecosystem.

https://www.livescience.com/20532-birth-control-water-pollution.html

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/birth-control-in-drinking-water-a-fertility-catastrophe-in-the-making

Is it really beyond the power of reasoning to suggest that mankind's manipulations that has clearly caused havok with the eco systems, might also be messing with human physiology>?

I am not trying to give an excuse, but a possible reason - a cause and effect.  There is a difference. 

I always try to cut people slack whenever I can.  I am just like that.  I try to see the best and try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

We all try to cut people slack where we can--since we're born again.

The Bible has not instance where it says, however, "This sin is okay with God, because there were circumstances..." Can you think of one?

[Guest 1sheep]

1 hour ago, artsylady said:

And YOU know for a fact that environmental issues are not at play in todays world how?  I don't know how you could possibly know such a thing.

Where does it say that David's polygamy cause him 'no end of grief'?  

Seems like God didn't care that David was a polygamist, doesn't it?

No. It doesnt seem that way at all except to those who are reckless with scripture. David was a repentant man after Gods heart. God forgave him over and over again. God doesnt condone sin and to say so is bordering on heresy! 

As far as being judgmental prideful and self righteous; I think looking at our own behavior should be a starting point. 

I would clasify a person all of the above if they usurp and twist Gods word at every turn to fit their unbiblical mindset.

These kinds of people dont believe Gods words to be infallible God breathed truth. They manipulate the Holy  Word of God  to ease their unrenewed mind.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

Romans 16: 17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

[Steve_S]

1 hour ago, artsylady said:

Please calm down. No I am not.  Not in any way.   I wish you would stop reading what I am saying in an attempt to criticize it before you can consider if because you are getting what I am saying wrong.  Just take a minute to think before you 'speak'.

 

  I am reminding you of the fact  that while Jesus did not talk of homosexuality, he did talk of judgementalism, pride and self righteousness and to me.  

Have a good day.  I have work to do.   

Removed from thread for implied personal accusations.

[Guest 1sheep]

4 hours ago, artsylady said:

Google 'study fish gay' and you will see that there are studies showing that due to mankinds 'brilliance', our water has been compromised and there are studies showing fish that now exhibit homosexual tendencies and transgenderism and a particular pesticide can turn male frogs into females.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080216095726.htm
https://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs/

http://naturalsociety.com/studies-chemicals-in-the-water-turning-male-fish-into-females/

Surely you must be aware that the meat and dairy industry use growth hormones and estrogen.  

You might also want to consider the fact that decades long use of the birth control pill has caused damage to the ecosystem.

https://www.livescience.com/20532-birth-control-water-pollution.html

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/birth-control-in-drinking-water-a-fertility-catastrophe-in-the-making

Is it really beyond the power of reasoning to suggest that mankind's manipulations that has clearly caused havok with the eco systems, might also be messing with human physiology>?

I am not trying to give an excuse, but a possible reason - a cause and effect.  There is a difference. 

I always try to cut people slack whenever I can.  I am just like that.  I try to see the best and try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Oh my goodness! God created all kinds of creatures. There are creatures that procreate all by themselves. There are reef fish ( one being the puffer) who change their sex ie hermaphrodites.

African frogs change sex when there are not enough males to multiply. God created them like this. It isnt because of the environment. It is because God is Sovereign. 

What does all that have to do with a human being whose sin separates them from God anyways? 

 

Homosexuality is an ABOMINATION to God. 

Those practicing it will not inherit the kingdom of God

[Guest shiloh357]

6 hours ago, artsylady said:

And YOU know for a fact that environmental issues are not at play in todays world how?  I don't know how you could possibly know such a thing.

Where does it say that David's polygamy cause him 'no end of grief'?  

Seems like God didn't care that David was a polygamist, doesn't it?

God commanded against polygamy and David's family was ripped apart from it and he lost a son as a result of it.  David's family life was a mess.

God never rescinded His command against polygamy.  

As for environmental issues, that is red herring because you can't really refute what the Bible says about homosexuality.  You don't really believe the Bible when it condemns homosexuality and you are using the arguments of non-believers  who are blind and going to Hell and you are taking on a sinful worldview.

6 hours ago, artsylady said:

Wow, judge and jury much?

Do you agree that Jesus spoke out against being judgmental, prideful and self righteous more than a few times?  Certainly more than being 'homosexual' (which he never did.)  Why do YOU seem to take issue with it MORE than JESUS did?

 

I can judge what God has already judged and God hates homosexuality, period.   But you have chosen to reject God's Word for the words of sinful people.

I am not being prideful or self-righteous.  I am being honest, something you apparently cannot handl.

Jesus didn't condemn homosexuality, but the ONLY marriages that Jesus upheld were between men and women.  Whenever Jesus addressed human sexuality and marriage, it was always between men and women. 

Jesus also never condemned child molestation.   Is it okay for men to molest young children since Jesus never condemned it?   Or are you going be internally consistent and argue that since Jesus never said it is wrong, grown men should be able molest 9 year old girls?  

I say what the Bible says.   You act like Jesus didn't have a problem with homosexuality because he didn't mention it or condemn it, but if we follow your standard of logic, we would have to say that Jesus would not condemn rape, spousal abuse, child abuse, drug abuse, etc.  on the grounds that He did not mention those things.   Do you really want to go down that road?