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Who is the widow? What are the chosen ones crying for?


listener24

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Luke 18:1-8

Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’

“For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”

And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?

 

Now the question is: what are the chosen ones praying day and night for?

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Hypothesis 1: "they are praying for a more just political system"

Refutation: Most of the prayers of some Christians seems to be going in this direction. Is this what the parable is teaching to pray for? If it was, it would have been much clearer if it concluded as "when the Son of Man will fix the political system, will He find faith on earth?"

But this is not how the parable ends.

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Hypothesis 2: "they are praying for a prosperous life on earth, like Job after the temptations"

Refutation: If it was the case, the parable would have concluded as "when the Son of man will give people an abundant life on earth, will He find faith on earth?"

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Hypothesis 3: "they are praying for the Son of Man to come quicker"

Confirmation: well that's exactly what the conclusion of the Parable seems to teach. Moreover, this seems completely in line with the only prayer taught directly by Jesus, the Lord prayer, plus various verses (Revelation 22:17, 22:20, 2Peter 3:12).

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Interestingly enough, the choice of a "widow" can also be seen as a reference to the Bride of Christ, whose Bridegroom has been taken away, Scripturally:

"Jesus answered, "How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; then they will fast." (Matthew 9:15)

"Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it." (Luke 17:22)

 

Thanks for reading. Feel free to share your considerations/agreements/disagreements/Scriptures on the topic.

God bless. Maranatha

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Luke 18: KJV

1 "And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; {2} Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: {3} And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. {4} And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; {5} Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. {6} And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. {7} And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? {8} I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

 

The widow represents a person seeking justice from a worldly court system.. She gets it because she keeps pestering the judge.. So the judge gives her justice just to stop her annoying him because of her constant complaint she has become a source of irritation for the human judge..

Jesus on the other hand loves those who believe and pray for him for justice.. So we can be assured that Jesus will give us justice against those who have persecuted us..

Romans 12: KJV

19"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. {20} Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. {21} Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."

AND::

Revelation 6: KJV

9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: {10} And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? {11} And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

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10 hours ago, listener24 said:

Now the question is: what are the chosen ones praying day and night for?

As God's chosen ones, we seek to cry out day and night for our needs as well as those of others.

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11 hours ago, PromisesPromises! said:

They (and we) cry out for justice.  As believers, we want all the wrong things in this world to be made right, and we have faith that this will happen.  John actually foresaw justice restored in The Revelation and testified to us about it.  Can we hasten the time?  I am honestly not sure.

Thank you @SelahSong , @Adstar , @Eliptic01 , @pinacled for your great answers.

Thank you @PromisesPromises! for the great considerations!
I'll address this last one that you posted.

@PromisesPromises!: "Can we hasten the time?"

Answer from 2 Peter 3:12:

 "Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming." (speed up or hastening depending on the translation)

Also, remember that many times God's people slowed down His plan with their stubbornness/worldliness. Remember the Israelites in the desert, when they didn't trust God and they had to wait 40 years. If they had trust Him, they'd have let Him hastening His timeline.

All over the Old Testament and the New Testament, our God is a God who wants a cooperation with humanity. He could do everything by Himself but He chooses not to, He wants our participation, as it is explained in parables like the Lost Son (Luke 15:11-32). In that parable, the Father doesn't force his will on the son, but as long as the son doesn't repent and is happy to be in a foreign land ("my Kingdom is not of this world"), without him, he lets him do it. He doesn't force His will on him.

So as long as we, even the Christians, keep focusing on this earth and we focus all our prayers on this earth (like the pagans have been doing for thousand years till now), we are not praying in the Spirit of  Luke 18:1-8, the Lord prayer, or Revelation 22:17 and 22:20, and we are actually slowing down God's plan, by not hastening our sound "response" to His desire of giving us New Heavens and New Earth.

Sounds very similar to what happens in the Parable of the Wedding Banquet as well, doesn't it? (Matthew 22:1-13). In that Parable, the King says "everything is now ready", but people come back to their business or their family plans.

If these are not enough Scriptural sources, let me know, and I will provide others as well as the opinion of some "preachers" on this like Adrian Rogers, Darek Prince or Jon Courson.

 

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He is waiting for the full number to be saved, so we can hasten His coming by sharing the Gospel at every opportunity.  

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On 11/8/2018 at 3:59 PM, Willa said:

He is waiting for the full number to be saved, so we can hasten His coming by sharing the Gospel at every opportunity.  

?  You posted my post before i could post it ... :D

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On 11/14/2018 at 11:20 AM, Yowm said:

Quicker? Quicker than what? Since we don't know the original day or hour how will we know it is 'quicker'?

Instead, 'Lord come quickly' is what I read.

Great question, thank you!

We know from Scripture that we can hasten the day of the Lord, speed up His coming:

2 Peter 3:12

"Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming."

Therefore, the answer to the question "quicker with respect to what?" is "quicker with  respect to when it would have been fixed by God if some of His elects wouldn't have hastened it."

Therefore, whoever doesn't hasten the Day of the Lord, slows it down, by missing his opportunity to speed it up.

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Now a comment not referred to you @Yowm, but to whomever would read this with lacking some elementary basics of theology. I want to specify that God foreknowledge doesn't by any mean decrease our role in speeding up His coming.

If someone really wants to try to disprove 2Peter 3:12 with some elementary theological errors, and he doesn't trust the Scriptures alone, then and only in that case such person should maybe read about what Boethius said about foreknowledge and free will. This only if someone wants to dig in complex reasoning, which has actually nothing to do with the simplicity of the Scriptures which states that as always, in the History of salvation, God wants men to cooperate with Him. That with our stubborness we can slow down His plan (see God's people in the desert), or with our repentance and cooperation we can speed it up.

Again, your question @Yowm was excellent, by specifying what I just said here above I'd like to prevent some boring and misleading conversations (like people contradicting themselves by saying that we play "no role" on the Day of the Lord because God knew the future and the day is fixed, but then according to them we have absolutely a role in speed up for instance the healing of a disease with a prayer. Such people are able to contradict themselves in the same sentence, so I'm trying to prevent this to happening).

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Yowm said:

We know there are certain things that must happen first...

Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
(2Th 2:3-8)
 

no matter how much we try to 'hasten' the Day.

Good point, except, we have no certain interpretation on those.

I think there are at least 100 people writing regularly on this forum, and maybe 99 different views on the subject of the events that need to happen before the Day of the Lord.

Should I trust one of them, and miss my opportunity to speed His coming?

And all of this, after Jesus has been very clear in the Gospel and hasn't complicated anything?

I'll rather be simple, I don't understand those complex interpretations, let alone the whole pre/pri/post/past trib topics on which there are several hundred ramifications (is the antiChrist European? African? American? Canadian? Is the beast Rome? Bablyon? Etc. etc.)

I'll leave all of these question to the wise and learned, who seem to have hard time to agree, and I'll rather bother God like an old widow was bothering a certain judge, in a certain city, with a more concrete request: deliver us from the evil one!

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1 hour ago, Yowm said:

Scripture interprets itself, and as we continue in it the pieces come together in a cohesive unity. No need to run around asking 99 others. I believe the passage I quoted you was quite clear and seems to put a damper on the theory that it is us who brings the coming of Jesus sooner by our various actions. 

I respect your point of view and kindly disagree :)

I think there are enough arguments in what we have written and on my side writing more will be redundant, but if I change my mind I'll add details.

Seems like the choice is between some very clear (at least in my opinion) verses and words like the verb "hastening" in 2Peter 3:12, or like Luke 18:1-8 (which would be completely useless if it wasn't also in part our responsibility), Versus some specific interpretations of a book, Revelation, that have been interpreted differently by almost everybody who reads it, and on which respectable Christians have several different angles of interpretation, not compatible between each others.

I guess for you is much more straightforward Revelation, and you believe you have a quite clear idea of the events that need to happen and that you have found the right key to interpret pages about lions, monsters, dozens of very precise and rounded numbers (like 1000, 144000, etc.), and I respect that.

God bless

 

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6 hours ago, Yowm said:

Have all the saints been disobedient to 2Pet 3:12  in the past 1900 years since His Coming has not yet occurred? I mean if it were possible to shorten the time, but that hasn't happened yet, so have all the saints, since Peter's admonision, been derelict on that point?

 And no, I don't pretend to know all the mini details of prophecy.

This is another great question dear @Yowm

You show to greatly understand the point, which is important regardless your disagreement.

A simple answer is that we really don't know the timeline and we don't need to know it.

Even if it seems slow to us, it would have been even slower without spreading the Gospel and the prayer for His Return.

Another thing to consider is this.

The first Christians, were aware of this prayer, it was natural to them.

They were greeting each other with the word Maranatha, come quickly Jesus.

You can find this even in other early Christian writings, like the Didache.

Then what happened?

Christianity corrupted itself by merging with Rome, and instead of looking "above" they started looking down and thinking that the Kingdom of Heaven was something to "build" on earth.

There aren't many traces of this prayer, after this terrible event, for centuries and centuries.

Theology started talking about irrelevant issues.

Then in the recent times, there seems to be an awakening, at least for some remnants.

You can read several pastors today talking about this topic, included Adrian Rogers, Jon Courson or Derek Prince.

And these are the time in which the last piece missing can come true:

"And this Gospel of the Kingsom will be preached in the whole world, as a testimony to all nations. And then the end will come"

These are the time in which from all over the world, "the Spirit and the Bride" can shout "come" (Revelation 22:17)

Sure, if humanity would have been more receptive God would have likely fixed an even earlier timeline.

Instead from the 3rd century we turned our sights to our idols, for the most.

But we can do our part today

In the worst case, it is at least a prayer that helps us keeping our eyes fixed on our blessed hope.

It is also great to prevent issues like preterism and social Gospel and prosperity Gospel

But I think it is noy only that, but even more powerful

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