Last Daze Posted January 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2019 16 hours ago, Diaste said: Just to be clear, I would never say, "It's ok to take the mark or worship the image, cause it can just be forgiven later when you change your mind." That's clearly wrong. I was debating on whether or not to make a similar statement. One of the arguments being made against being able to repent of the mark was that people would then think it's okay to take it. If a person thinks its okay to sin and is in the habit of justifying their sins then no amount of "don't touch that" will be an effective deterrent. Given the prevalence of the Laodicean church in western culture, I guess such a statement does need to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted January 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2019 I was not going to continue this seemingly pointless discussion with you since you have a closed mind as to what is written in the Bible, however here I am. From the beginning of time the gospel was written in the stars...protevangelium... the zodiac in today’s terms ( not astrology). Early man had no Bible but understood the meaning of the stars as the Wisemen did in their search for the newborn King. Because of the past and today’s technology, there is not one person living who has not heard that the only Living God sent His Son to die on the cross for man’s sin. No matter what their holy book is. All who live have heard or read the message of redemption. Believe and be saved or die for unbelief. There is a rapture (harpazo, rapturo or rapture). As was explained, it is a father who sees his child in harms way of a vehicle, animal, what you will, and rushes out and “snatches the loved child from harm’s way”. You can accept this act of a loving heavenly Father who would do this or not. The apostles saw Jesus die on the cross be buried, and yet stood seeing Him rise to heaven in the clouds. The same way we are told that we will rise to meet the Lord in the “air”. We will not meet Him on the earth. We will not go through the tribulation otherwise what was the point of God the Father sending His Son to die for sinners. During the tribulation, only those who did not accept the free gift of salvation are on the earth. They have already denied Jesus once. If they realize the error they made and do not take the mark of the beast and deny the Antichrist they will be hunted down and beheaded for their choice. This will be rare for one to take that stand. But to say you cannot accept that God would be so unforgiving is false doctrine according to the scriptures. All on earth today have heard the Gospel of Jesus dying for their sins. It is written in the stars. If they reject so great a gift, the sacrifice of the only Living God, their end is surely eternal damnation. Separation from Pure Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted January 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,624 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Last Daze said: I was debating on whether or not to make a similar statement. One of the arguments being made against being able to repent of the mark was that people would then think it's okay to take it. If a person thinks its okay to sin and is in the habit of justifying their sins then no amount of "don't touch that" will be an effective deterrent. Given the prevalence of the Laodicean church in western culture, I guess such a statement does need to be made. True. If one has knowledge and yet sins they are on on the path to destruction. I agree we shouldn't have to make the distinction, but..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCanada Posted January 9, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,248 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 671 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2019 On 1/8/2019 at 5:57 AM, Last Daze said: Do you think that Jesus is going to deny Peter before the Father? Why or why not? Hi LD, I’ve discussed this with my mentor. This is what we found in Scripture. Let’s look at the Gospel of Luke. Here Jesus explains what Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is. Luke 12:1…..”Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy” 12:2….”But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known” The Day is coming when a persons’ true faith will be revealed. 4-5….”Do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But, I will warn you whom to fear: Fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes I tell you, fear Him” A persecution that leads to death is coming. 8-9….” Everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God; but he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.” The persecution unto death is about confessing Jesus or denying Jesus, which is exactly what the persecution during the Tribulation will be about. 10-12….” And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him. When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you are to say.” This is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is the denial of what the Holy Spirit tells us to say at that very hour, at that moment of persecution unto death, when we confess Jesus or deny Him. This is our witness, our testimony before men. If we fail to heed the words of the Holy Spirit at that moment, then we have committed the unpardonable sin, and we will be given the Mark of the Beast. There is no turning back after this. Taking the Mark of the Beast IS blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, the unpardonable sin! Now then. Do I think that Jesus will deny Peter before the Father? No, Jesus forgave Peter. He told him to feed His sheep. I think that when Peter denied Jesus 3 times, this is before he really KNEW that Jesus was who He claimed to be; that He was the suffering One, the Messiah who had to die. “For they as yet did not understand the scriptures, that He must rise again from the dead”….John 20:9 We have the Scriptures. Peter didn’t. There is no excuse for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted January 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2019 47 minutes ago, JoeCanada said: 10-12….” And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him. When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you are to say.” This is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is the denial of what the Holy Spirit tells us to say at that very hour, at that moment of persecution unto death, when we confess Jesus or deny Him. This is our witness, our testimony before men. If we fail to heed the words of the Holy Spirit at that moment, then we have committed the unpardonable sin, and we will be given the Mark of the Beast. There is no turning back after this. I have to admit that I've never heard that interpretation before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 1.00 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2019 On 1/5/2019 at 7:38 AM, Diaste said: I'm sorry but this seems quite harsh. I wonder if there is precedent in scripture for repentance when one worships images or idols to false gods. Nothing comes to mind but I bet there is an example. I find the whole idea of 'never able to repent of an action or behavior' distasteful and not in keeping with scriptural truths of love, grace and mercy, nor the many examples of repentance of sin. As far as I know only one sin is unforgivable and that's blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, not taking the mark and worshiping an image. Rev 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, ", If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand Rev 14:10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." This seems to be a fairly straightforward scripture. If one receives the mark of beast, they go to eternal torment. There seems to be absolutely no way around that. We are told explicitly that anyone who worships the beast will end up in this situation. It is prudent to heed such warnings in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForHisGlory37 Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 722 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2019 On 1/5/2019 at 5:38 AM, Diaste said: I'm sorry but this seems quite harsh. I wonder if there is precedent in scripture for repentance when one worships images or idols to false gods. Nothing comes to mind but I bet there is an example. I find the whole idea of 'never able to repent of an action or behavior' distasteful and not in keeping with scriptural truths of love, grace and mercy, nor the many examples of repentance of sin. As far as I know only one sin is unforgivable and that's blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, not taking the mark and worshiping an image. I don't think that you feeling that this is harsh or distasteful will make any difference when you are standing before GOD and having to explain yourself to HIM that you took the MOB (EVEN though it says in Revelation 14: 9-11 not to take the MOB) and thought you could repent from it. IT AINT GONNA FLY.... WE CANNOT GO ON FEELINGS BUT STAND ON THE WORD OF GOD. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForHisGlory37 Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 722 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2019 On 12/31/2018 at 5:08 AM, Last Daze said: Those who take the MoB are deceived into thinking that he is God because of the signs and wonders he performs. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. Revelation 13:14 Those people don't see taking the mark and worshiping the image as "renouncing the name of Jesus." They're deceived. Esau wasn't deceived into giving up his birthright. This is not gonna fly either because Jesus said, "MY SHEEP KNOW MY VOICE" Those who know the real Jesus is not going to be deceived by the father of lies. God ALWAYS GIVES US A WAY OUT, He always gives us free will, He is not going to allow us to be deceived into taking the MOB. We will definitely know what taking the MOB entails so your feeling that this is something that you can be deceived into taking and repenting of it, totally GOES AGAINST SCRIPTURE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,624 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 hours ago, Steve_S said: Rev 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, ", If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand Rev 14:10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." This seems to be a fairly straightforward scripture. If one receives the mark of beast, they go to eternal torment. There seems to be absolutely no way around that. We are told explicitly that anyone who worships the beast will end up in this situation. It is prudent to heed such warnings in my view. That is true. But that's not the whole story. There are three angels, each with a message for the entire world, and those messages are related to the world at the time of judgement. "He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come. Worship the One who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and the springs of waters." Fair warning and a last attempt by our Father to reach the people before judgement falls. "And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.” Indicating there are those who have already died in the Lord. We know that to die is gain for we go to be with our Lord. Interesting and timely statement. This passage in Rev 14 comes after we see the 144,000 with our Lord and just before the 7 vials of wrath. The first angel gives a call to repent and the third angel actually tells the world to cease in the worship of the beast and relying on the mark. Taking the mark and worshiping the beast in Rev 14 is not a one off, it's continued, active and present relying on the individual. I agree, anyone who refuses the call and continues in the behavior set forth by the 3rd angel is doomed. Stop the behavior and repent, give God glory and worship Him, and be saved. This is exactly within the character of our Lord. For God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. And that throughout the known universe to the end of time. And yes, I get it, God is angry with the rebels, some will end up in eternal punishment, tormented forever. But it's an utterly horrible thing to do to someone if there is any chance to change their hearts. We all get that, right? Once in eternal damnation there is no escape, ever. "tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb....And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever" That's what it means to 'perish'. This isn't a thought experiment, it's a reality. God will give the chance to repent right to the end because He loves the whole world and the consequence of continued rebellion is eternal death in smoke and flame. And so I will not ignore passages of hope and renewal for even the most brazen rebel as I do not want a single soul to be tormented forever, even though it seems some do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,624 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 hours ago, ForHisGlory37 said: I don't think that you feeling that this is harsh or distasteful will make any difference when you are standing before GOD and having to explain yourself to HIM that you took the MOB (EVEN though it says in Revelation 14: 9-11 not to take the MOB) and thought you could repent from it. IT AINT GONNA FLY.... What are you on about? This has nothing to do with the arguments presented. I'm sorry you cannot see the mercy of the Lord within the consequence for rebellion. Is it that you want people to go into a pit of fire and smoke and torment from which they will never be released? Sure seems that way. For the record, again; With the knowledge of the mark and worship of the beast that you and I have taking the mark and worshiping the beast would be our doom. Can you say with all certainty that everyone has that knowledge? Would you condemn a child to eternal torment who simply followed the parents lead? That child could never come to saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and repent and be saved? I hope the Lord's mercy for you is greater than the mercy you seem to show others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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