Mark of the beast

[NOONE7]

9 hours ago, Jostler said:

By your definition everyone who has ever rejected Jesus has borne the mark, and yet the Bible seems to clearly demand understanding the mark as an end time phenomena that is taken or not taken by a definite exercise of our will.  Your assertion doesn't fit Scripture well enough to satisfy me.

Something that I have been pondering as well for those that want to make it just a spiritual or a faith mark.  Scripture seems to show a different role each one has and that it leads to the same thing.  The difference is in the details in what scripture reveals.  This is what I mean for that.  

Two different types of worship and one manifested type.   You can make spiritual points for the first two but you can't make that same exact point for the mark because of the details given.

Revelation 14:9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Worship is spiritual.  Worshiping the beast is one but the other is worshiping his image, and that is a big difference for these two but one in the same.     Worship is spiritual in the sense, that it does not do a literal action in regards to doing something literally.  These two you can make points for it being 'spiritual'.  Another example what do I mean by spiritual.  Lets say you have a literal job to do with going out to buy something or going out to sell something or even receiving something on your hand or head.  If you are just spiritually worshiping the beast or his image by say for example bowing down or praising this evil or directing your thoughts of worship to this evil.   Perhaps even just using words of worship for this evil.  This isn't really doing a literal task like receiving a mark on your body that lets you do the actions of buying and selling.  The worship of the beast or his image are faith based but the mark is different with it being work based, which allows you to do works of buying and selling to live out your life.  

 

 

[Littlelambseativy]

On 1/26/2019 at 10:08 PM, Jostler said:

If I seemed to imply you should you have my sincerest apologies   My intent was to simply observe that everything the Word has warned us is coming about the Beast and the mark is now technologically feasible and pretty much already in place.

That character cannot touch me (or you) unless and until Father allows it.  I ain't running nowhere, and in fact I'm quite eager to get on with it   I EXPECT to see God's power manifest in keeping me right up until His plan says it's time for me to go home.

I am looking forward to both seeing His power once again manifest among His people on a regular basis AND going home   It's gonna be a wild and woolly ride I wouldn't miss for all the tea in China

Due to some things I believe I've been shown I fully expect to run TO this battle, not away from it.

Why would  “run” to something  from which the Saviour died to free you? I must admit I find people read the Bible but do not understand the words.... how do you understand 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-12. 

[Jostler]

3 hours ago, Littlelambseativy said:

Why would  “run” to something  from which the Saviour died to free you? I must admit I find people read the Bible but do not understand the words.... how do you understand 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-12. 

I'm not clear what  your question is?  I meant I intend to run "to" and engage (in  HIM!) the forces arraying themselves against Him and His Word.  As far as 1st Thessalonians 2:1-12 goes, here's my best understanding:

Actually, I have to back up to 1 Thessalonians one because in this case the context is too important to overlook.  Chapter one sheds a lot of light on exactly what  Paul is talking about in Chapter 2 and he's still writing  on the same topic in  Chapter 2.

Evidently, the  Thessalonians  were enduring some trials and hardships and Paul uses the first few verses to sow some perspective and encouragement into them in their suffering.  In the seventh verse he points out that there will be "rest" from these trials when:

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2Th 1:7

and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,

So now he's identified a specific  event and opened a specific topic which will remain his  central theme through  Chapter 2.  And he  begins to give specific characteristics  of the event showing  so far that this event willl 1.) reveal the Lord Jesus, and 2.) that His  mighty angels will be accompanying Him when He is revealed.

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2Th 1:8

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The purpose of His revealing is to execute vengeance....  by the way the Greek word for "mighty" angels in verse 7 does not demand but does  strongly imply "warring" angles.  This is not  warm cuddly assembly in any case.  It's manifesting  in power to execute vengeance.  We're beginning  to get a picture of the Mighty Lion-King of Judah, not the Lamb.

 

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2Th 1:9

These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

2Th 1:10

when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe,[fn] because our testimony among you was believed.

The end result of this vengeance is that His enemies are banished from His presence, glory  and power forever.  And it will result in Him being glorified IN His saints to  a degree that  we're going  to marvel and admire Him in each other    Man there's some revelation to unpack in THAT phrase  too but if I head down that trail we'll be here for  days

But, again Paul identifies the  central theme which will carry over to Chapter 2.   THAT DAY.   Our translators capitalized that because this term is elsewhere associated with "the Day of the Lord".    On to Chapter 2...

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2Th 2:1

¶

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,

 

Same "day", same topic, a day  of revealing Him, glorification in His saints, and GATHERING of the  saints is now an added detail.

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2Th 2:2

not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[fn] had come.

Reading between the lines it seems likely someone was trying  to shake the Thessalonian's faith by proclaiming He'd already come and they missed it.  And here Paul calls the "Day" the Day of Christ (some translations use "Day  of the  Lord" here).

I find it interesting that Paul finds it necessary to give a strong warning  against being deceived in this  next verse, just  like Jesus did in Matt 24:23-28.  I think they both knew by the Spirit satan was going to  do all he could  to confuse understanding of this topic.  We certainly  see a lot of confusion in the Body  concerning it with  all the different interpretations of pre-, mid-,  post- and all that.

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2Th 2:3

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[fn] is revealed, the son of perdition,

To strengthen the reader against deception Paul gives two things that MUST happen before that "Day" (the coming  of the Lord and our  being gathered to  Him) saying the  Day CANNOT come until there  has been a falling  away and the man of sin (lawlessness) HAS been revealed.

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2Th 2:4

who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[fn] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

This next statement  is an interpretation and therefore debatable, but I believe Paul is actually telling us exactly what constitutes the 'revealing' of the man of sin.  When we see someone sitting in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be God....that's him.  He's revealed and we'll  know he's this Beast character.

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2Th 2:5

¶

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

2Th 2:6

And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

2Th 2:7

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[fn] who now restrains will do so until He[fn] is taken out of the way.

2Th 2:8

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

2Th 2:9

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

I'll just sort of gloss over the rest for time's sake and you can ask for more detail if I didn't answer something to  your  satisfaction. 

1.  There is a "restrainer" of some kind preventing the revealing of the man  of sin until his  "time".  Which I understand to mean God is controlling the timing.  When this restrainer is taken away (I assume by  God) then the man of sin can reveal himself.  And when he does it will be accompanied by all kinds of deceptive miracles, signs and wonders.  Hard to miss IMO.

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2Th 2:10

and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

2Th 2:12

that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

And it appears there is a very sobering change in God's dealing with hardened hearts.  They appear to be released into the power of the delusion who refused to love the truth.

I'll stop there.  If I failed to answer something please ask further.

[DonkeySpeaksAgain]

On 1/26/2019 at 7:29 PM, Cletus said:

I know what you speak of as far as buying oil, and even God says to buy/purchase gold or silver from Him somewhere... i cant think of the scripture verbatim, but i know what you speak of but that interpretation does not explain trading... what do you say concerning trade... just curious. 

A lot of verses here but it all relates to the topic (and the harlot in Revelation who "sits on many waters" = rules over many people)

Rev. 17: 3 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

⁵ And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

⁶ And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

18: 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

⁷ How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

 

¹¹ And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

¹² The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

¹³ And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

¹⁴ And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

¹⁵ The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

¹⁶ And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

¹⁷ For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

¹⁸ And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

¹⁹ And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

 

NOW COMPARE ALL THAT TO THE FOLLOWING....

Prov. 31:

⁶ Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

⁷ Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

⁸ Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction.

⁹ Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

¹⁰ Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.

¹¹ The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.

¹² She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.

¹³ She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.

¹⁴ She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.

¹⁵ She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.

¹⁶ She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.

¹⁷ She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.

¹⁸ She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.

¹⁹ She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.

²⁰ She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.

²¹ She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.

²² She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.

²³ Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.

²⁴ She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.

²⁵ Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.

²⁶ She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.

²⁷ She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.

²⁸ Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.

²⁹ Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.

³⁰ Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised.

 

 

[Littlelambseativy]

You speak of a “restrainer of somekind”. The Restrainer Is the Holy Spirit, Who is protecting the Church from the enemy. When the Holy Spirit and the church are removed....all hell breaks out on earth. 

[Jostler]

2 hours ago, Littlelambseativy said:

You speak of a “restrainer of somekind”. The Restrainer Is the Holy Spirit, Who is protecting the Church from the enemy. When the Holy Spirit and the church are removed....all hell breaks out on earth. 

I know that is a popular interpretation but the  Word is nowhere that specific.  I don't know who the restrainer is.  The Holy Spirit is not the only viable candidate to fulfill that passage.  I do not believe the  Holy Spirit is removed from the earth when people are obviously making life or death decisions between the beast and God.  I see no place in scripture that demand understanding the Body of Christ is removed either.  I can't imagine Him taking us out just when the need for laborers fulfilling the Great Commission is greater than any time in human history.

[ARGOSY]

On 2/3/2019 at 8:12 PM, Jostler said:

I know that is a popular interpretation but the  Word is nowhere that specific.  I don't know who the restrainer is.  The Holy Spirit is not the only viable candidate to fulfill that passage.  I do not believe the  Holy Spirit is removed from the earth when people are obviously making life or death decisions between the beast and God.  I see no place in scripture that demand understanding the Body of Christ is removed either.  I can't imagine Him taking us out just when the need for laborers fulfilling the Great Commission is greater than any time in human history.

The interesting thing is that these events occur exactly 3.5 years before the end. There are dark secrets, secrets of lawlessness. There is lawlessness currently on the earth, and yet the full truth of these secrets is not revealed to us (the church).  Yet something will be REMOVED, then all these dark secrets will be revealed, the secret lawlesness will be exposed for what it is:

And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. ⁷ For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. ⁸ And then the lawless one will be revealed

It just so happens, that at the SAME moment that the antichrist is revealed for 42 months of rule (Rev 13), Satan is cast out from heaven in a great battle caused by the victory of the church as per Rev 12. Satan's wrath on earth is for the same time period, 1260 days (42 months).  

So in summary, the withholder is REMOVED/TAKEN OUT THE WAY, at the SAME TIME as Satan is REMOVED/TAKEN OUT OF HEAVEN through the victory of the church. This is when the SECRET (of lawlessness) is no longer held back because the antichrist is REVEALED, he is no longer a secret. 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by ARGOSY

[ARGOSY]

ps I will tell you what the secret is in advance.... the Catholic Church and high powered Jews are SECRETLY in cahoots with Islam. They are Baal worshippers, not followers of Judaism. 

They will let Orthodox Jews and Evangelical Christians ride the Trump wave of triumphalism for a few more years, and then after the abominable temple is built they will shockingly/suddenly  install an Islamic friendly Isa/Messiah. He will  bring the world into religious unity and yet sideline Orthodox Jews and Evangelical Christians for persecution.  The shock after the triumphalism will cause the great falling away. We will be slaughtered, and good Jews will escape to other countries and experience much revival.  Compromised Jews (followers of Isa) will safely stay in Israel until they repent at Armageddon. 

[Jostler]

39 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

The interesting thing is that these events occur exactly 3.5 years before the end. There are dark secrets, secrets of lawlessness. There is lawlessness currently on the earth, and yet the full truth of these secrets is not revealed to us (the church).  Yet something will be REMOVED, then all these dark secrets will be revealed, the secret lawlesness will be exposed for what it is:

And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. ⁷ For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. ⁸ And then the lawless one will be revealed

It just so happens, that at the SAME moment that the antichrist is revealed for 42 months of rule (Rev 13), Satan is cast out from heaven in a great battle caused by the victory of the church as per Rev 12. Satan's wrath on earth is for the same time period, 1260 days (42 months).  

So in summary, the withholder is REMOVED/TAKEN OUT THE WAY, at the SAME TIME as Satan is REMOVED/TAKEN OUT OF HEAVEN through the victory of the church. This is when the SECRET (of lawlessness) is no longer held back because the antichrist is REVEALED, he is no longer a secret. 

 

 

Since my arrival here at Worthy not too long ago, He's done this to (for) me quite a few times.  Over and over I've seen posts from saints who have very obviously been being led into the very  same revelations I have been.  He's using them to confirm things I believe He's shown me, and perhaps the other way around as well. 

I have met a new friend here who has made a video presentation  of some VERY interesting and compelling points ...directly from the Word...with great respect and care for faithful treatment of the Word...that have been drawing Biblically sound connections between Michael the archangel and this passage about this mysterious "restrainer"

I'm not fully ready to embrace the idea that Michael IS the restrainer but my brother's careful study has confirmed my suspicion that this was a direction God wanted my own studies to focus on.

I'm not going to say who the brother is, he is well known and his love for God and His Word obvious from what he writes.  But I suspect he may have already  been used to reveal some things to and may well be used to publish them   We shall see

A sort of corollary revelation I've noticed is that it seems MANY people here, have been given bits and pieces of what I'm beginning to think of as His "end times" message.  I'm feeding luxuriously from His hand THROUGH their posts.  Receiving both fresh insight  and many, many confirmations of what I have already heard from Him myself.

Bless you and thank you for sharing.  This post of yours is an example.

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1Co 13:9

For we know in part and we prophesy in part.

It's apparently not  God's way to reveal the whole of His plan and revelation to any one individual.  But!  COLLECTIVELY, He DOES reveal ALL of His plans to His servants BEFORE He executes them..

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Amo 3:7

Surely the Lord GOD does nothing,
Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.

Many are knowingly or not, receiving their "in part" and beginning to publish what they  have been given ...right here on this forum.  I have no doubt it's happening in other venues as well.  I see some posts and I see this:

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Amo 3:8

A lion has roared!
Who will not fear?
The Lord GOD has spoken!
Who can but prophesy?

hhhahha....that Holy FIRE in their bones demanding release because it is time

Hide and watch.  I'll BET you He is moving with focus and power to bring to His people, corrections in understanding, fresh revelation of old passages and all the other tools we need to participate with Him in His works, His great, unprecedented works reserved for the end of the age.

And we all get to play a role

[Littlelambseativy]

The archangel Michael is the guardian over Israel so cannot be the Restrainer.  The Holy Spirit, the 3rd person of the Godhead is the only one able to restrain Satan and the demonic forces.