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JTC

John 6 and 20

Question

I don't think this is the right place for this but I didn't know where else to put it. I didn't want it in the General Discussion forum because I don't want to start WW3.

In John's Gospel Jesus seems to be supporting the ideas of Catholic communion as well as confession. I know most of you disagree so then how do you explain these scriptures?

First ch 6 53 - 58 although we may need the rest of the chapter.           53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Then we get to ch 20. Here Jesus is about to leave for heaven. So in verses 21 & 22 Jesus this:  21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”  Now to me this sounds a lot like the Catholic practise of confession. If you disagree then what do you think Jesus meant? Admittedly the Catholics may have messed up confession somewhat but confessing our sins to each other has merits. Firstly it keeps you aware of what you've been doing wrong. I doubt that most of us even know what all are sins are, we just know we have some but I'd bet a few of us only think we have sins because the Bible says no man is without sin. Actually it's a sin to even feel that way. But who wants to think about sins. I remember when I only thought about my sins when I thought death was near. I think there's also some scriptures telling us to confess to each other in the epistles but I'd have to search to find them. Our real problem is who could you trust to confess to, I've never met a fellow believer I'd be comfortable telling all my sins to.

Now please don't turn this thread into a Catholic bashing party. 

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18 minutes ago, JTC said:

Now please don't turn this thread into a Catholic bashing party. 

That is very difficult as the conversation goes along.

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44 minutes ago, JTC said:

First ch 6 53 - 58 although we may need the rest of the chapter.           53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Keep reading.  

Joh 6:60  Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, "This is a hard saying; who can understand it?"

Joh 6:61  When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, "Does this offend you?

Joh 6:62  What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?

Joh 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

This indicates that we need to internalizing His words, which are our spiritual food.  This is repeated elsewhere that His words are spiritual nourishment.  The Holy Spirit works through God's word to save us, to guide us, to grow us etc.  Jesus used Holy Communion (a part of the Passover meal) to tell us to always remember His sacrifice for us, and that He will come to indwell us by His Spirit--Christ in you, the hope of glory. He often used concrete things to explain spiritual truths to us hard heads. 

 Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 Then we get to ch 20. Here Jesus is about to leave for heaven. So in verses 21 & 22 Jesus this:  21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

To me this means that Jesus is commissioning them to spread the Gospel of repentance and faith in the forgiveness of sin by His blood.  But probably no one agrees with me on this.  

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2 minutes ago, Willa said:

Joh 6:60  Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, "This is a hard saying; who can understand it?"

Joh 6:61  When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, "Does this offend you?

Joh 6:62  What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?

Joh 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

This indicates that we need to internalizing His words, which are our spiritual food.  This is repeated elsewhere that His words are spiritual nourishment.  The Holy Spirit works through God's word to save us, to guide us, to grow us etc.  Jesus used Holy Communion (a part of the Passover meal) to tell us to always remember His sacrifice for us, and that He will come to indwell us by His Spirit--Christ in you, the hope of glory. He often used concrete things to explain spiritual truths to us hard heads. 

 Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 Then we get to ch 20. Here Jesus is about to leave for heaven. So in verses 21 & 22 Jesus this:  21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

To me this means that Jesus is commissioning them to spread the Gospel of repentance and faith in the forgiveness of sin by His blood.  But probably no one agrees with me on this.  

... probably not.  I do agree with you. 

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JTC, perhaps this article will be of some help about John 20?

https://carm.org/john2023-priests-forgive-sins

and John 6....

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-eat-flesh-drink-blood.html

Edited by Debp
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16 hours ago, JTC said:

I don't think this is the right place for this but I didn't know where else to put it. I didn't want it in the General Discussion forum because I don't want to start WW3.

In John's Gospel Jesus seems to be supporting the ideas of Catholic communion as well as confession. I know most of you disagree so then how do you explain these scriptures?

First ch 6 53 - 58 although we may need the rest of the chapter.           53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Then we get to ch 20. Here Jesus is about to leave for heaven. So in verses 21 & 22 Jesus this:  21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”  Now to me this sounds a lot like the Catholic practise of confession. If you disagree then what do you think Jesus meant? Admittedly the Catholics may have messed up confession somewhat but confessing our sins to each other has merits. Firstly it keeps you aware of what you've been doing wrong. I doubt that most of us even know what all are sins are, we just know we have some but I'd bet a few of us only think we have sins because the Bible says no man is without sin. Actually it's a sin to even feel that way. But who wants to think about sins. I remember when I only thought about my sins when I thought death was near. I think there's also some scriptures telling us to confess to each other in the epistles but I'd have to search to find them. Our real problem is who could you trust to confess to, I've never met a fellow believer I'd be comfortable telling all my sins to.

Now please don't turn this thread into a Catholic bashing party. 

No--the Roman church came after John 6 and 20 and reinterpreted the scriptures to define Catholic communion. It's not a "prophecy" in the Bible.

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