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Guest shiloh357
16 hours ago, one.opinion said:

You are getting off track. My point was that the word "yom" is flexible and has multiple different uses in the Bible. I did not refer specifically to Genesis 1.

But that argument has been used by you and others in the past to argue that yom should not refer to a 24-hour day.

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Your response seems to ignore many of the Biblical uses of the word in the Bible.

No, it doesn't.   I am simply pointing out that what is important in THIS discussion is how it is used in Genesis 1.   All Hebrew words have multiple uses due to the fact that Hebrew has a very small economy when it comes to vocabulary.   A single word in Hebrew can have 10, 15, even 20 different uses depending on context.  

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This seemed very curious to me since it doesn't at all match the reality regarding the use of "yom" throughout the Bible, which is why I showed you a screenshot from the concordance. I was completely correct in my assertion that yom has multiple uses throughout the Bible and have supplied evidence for it.

You don't understand Hebrew and I read it, and study it.   I am not fluent, but simply throwing up a screenshot about the different usages of the word doesn't really help you, as a single word can only have a single meaning in a given usage.  


 

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But moving on...

You further claim:

This is incorrect. Evolution is a best guess to explain many scientific observations about biological change over time. It is neither theistic nor atheistic. It is limited by science to what can be physically observed, measured, or tested - it does not address the supernatural.

 

Evolution isn't a "best guess."  And yes, it is atheistic and it is one of the best enablers of atheism in the world.  It is quite atheistic as a theory because the theory is designed to rule out God or any intelligent catalyst.   Even Richard Dawkins states that Evolution makes an Atheist a more fulfilled Atheist.   Theory is everything that the Bible's statement of our origin is not.  Evolution is impersonal, naturalistic, unguided and lacking design, or purpose.   The Creation account in the Bible is the polar opposite that.

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Has the idea of evolution been misused? Absolutely! But history is full of misuse of ideas, like the misuse of Christianity in the Spanish Inquisition.

Margaret Sanger and Adolph Hitler didn't misuse Evolution at all.   They were the fruit of it.   They viewed it their responsibility to get rid what they considered lesser evolved humans to make room for the more fit races, namely the white race.   Even Darwin considered some races to be less evolved than others.  

It's offensive to us because we are raised with western values that hold to the sanctity of life based on the Bible.   But Evolution has no such concept.  Destroying the less evolved is an evolutionary necessity in order to preserve resources for needed for those who are more fit to survive.    To use this against humans today is seen as cruel, but from a purely Evolutionary standpoint, it is not cruel as it is amoral.   What we call "murder" is  just part of the process.  If we operated from a purely evolutionary mindset, we would have no moral objection to Hitler or Margaret Sanger.

 

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No, the version of evolution you seek to refute is as you describe it. I refute that version of evolution, as well. Clearly, if I believe God used evolution, then it is NOT wholly naturalistic, and NOT impersonal, and NOT unguided. Again, I do not at all dispute that God (and only God) is the creator of all things.

Except that there are no 'versions'  of Evolution, except what exists in your imagination.  Just like the Bible has no "versions" of how man was created, there are not various theories of Evolution  to choose from.  

God didn't use Evolution when God created Adam.   Adam was made from the dirt and WE  all come from Adam, the first man.   

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Yes, you are. Repeatedly. Every single time you claim evolution is atheistic when you argue with me, you raise a strawman. Because if God used it, then it is not atheistic. You can use that argument with an atheist without the obvious logical fallacy, but you cannot do that with me.

But God didn't use it and the wording of Genesis precludes it. And God's nature precludes Him from using it.   And again, Atheists are more honest about that than you are.   They can accept Evolution as it is, without having to modify it or change the theory around into something that it's not.   And you're not really honest about what the Bible says, which is why you have modify the origin of death, you have make up nonsense about Adam and Eve being evolved humans and you have to muddy the waters about Genesis and inerrancy and butcher the concepts literary devices like metaphors to arrive at your imaginary version of the Bible in order to make it fit with Evolution.

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On 12/5/2018 at 12:12 PM, Uber Genius said:

This is not helpful. It is just condescending. 

 

Please help by specifying exactly where the logic errors or systematic theology errors are and save the pedantics for the New Atheists and their ilk. 

How about You go through his beliefs on things and compile the long list that is contrary to what the bible teaches! You are new here. It behooves one to listen and observe before injecting commentary especially when it concerns a persons theology.

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2 hours ago, 1sheep said:

How about You go through his beliefs on things and compile the long list that is contrary to what the bible teaches! 

I would be interested in seeing that long list.

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On 12/7/2018 at 8:37 AM, shiloh357 said:

Even Darwin considered some races to be less evolved than others.

I think it is safe to conclude that he was incorrect in this view.

It is abundantly clear both Biblically and biologically that we are created equal. This is one of the reasons I am so astonished when professed Christians that tout their own knowledge of the Bible make sweeping negative stereotype against entire groups of people. For example, characterizing the entire caravan as “illegals just looking for handouts”, while ignoring the men that are looking for a safe place to work hard and support a family and the many women and children that had very little (or no) say in their involvement.

On 12/7/2018 at 8:37 AM, shiloh357 said:

But God didn't use it and the wording of Genesis precludes it.

You are yet again displaying your difficulty in distinguishing fact from opinion.

On 12/7/2018 at 8:37 AM, shiloh357 said:

And again, Atheists are more honest about that than you are.

You are certainly entitled to that opinion. However, I think it is clear that an atheistic viewpoint of evolution is quite empty and hollow because those with that viewpoint miss out in the beautiful and majestic creation of God.

On 12/7/2018 at 8:37 AM, shiloh357 said:

And you're not really honest about what the Bible says, which is why you have modify the origin of death

I am just as honest about my opinion of what the Bible says as you are. Even when I was a young earth creationist, it was clear to me that death was a part of creation. Are you familiar with carbon and nitrogen (and other) cycles? In order for vital chemicals to be available to new organisms, death must occur for those chemicals to be recycled.

On 12/7/2018 at 8:37 AM, shiloh357 said:

Except that there are no 'versions'  of Evolution, except what exists in your imagination.

Surely you are aware that my viewpoint is shared by millions of Christ-followers around the world - and it is not just in my imagination.

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I really don't concern myself as to "how" God made the earth and all the other infinite amount of galaxies, although others might be interested, and indeed that is their right as God made intellectuals to use their talents of logic and reason. It is generally accepted that Moses was well-educated being,as a young man in the Pharoes court and family,and one can assume that he received the best education that Egypt could have offered at that time.The Pyramids are still standing to this very day and bare witness of high education and precision in that period.

Secondly: It is well documented and accepted that Moses wrote Genesis as well as the other four books in the Pentateuch. Reason tells me that if Moses wanted us to accept that God first made little apes or monkeys or even a gorilla out of dust why would he not write "ape"?It can be assumed or inferred, that Egyptians were familiar with that species at that time, considering their travel up and down the Nile into sub-Sahara regions. But the fact is Moses writes: 

"H120

אָדָם
'âdâm
aw-dawm'
From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person."(Strongs Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries)
Why would Moses not write "ape"?I am quite sure he knew the difference .No he clearly writes and literally means that "7.the Lord God formed the man ('âdâm my insert) from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."(Gen.2:7)There is certainly no talk here of "breathing into ...nostrils " of a monkey or any other species.

Therefore sometimes as interesting as it may seem, would it not be much easier not to concern ourselves with "how" God Created the Universe and when, but rather focus on "why" He did it out of love of man and His purpose for man through the blood of Christ. That would be my interpretation as an absolute "end user" out of faith, in the truth of God's Word as written in the Bible.

Edited by Tony Hyman
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It boils down to the question that can the almighty God not using evolution at all in creating humans? If not then He's not almighty. If He can then why bother evolution, as the most important part of creation is about a soul, instead of a body!

That being said. God created an environment facilitating adaptation such that species can continue by adapting into changing environments. There's no evidence (if you like it this way) or whatsoever showing that organic materials were (past tense, which supposed to happen billions of years ago) formed from inorganic materials. No evidence showing that critical organs such as human brain, human heart and etc. were (past tense, which is supposed to happen long ago).

 

To make more clearly;

If you said that inorganic materials were turned to organic materials 10 billion years ago, please submit your evidence that it was so. You evidence thus should be present all the times from 10 billion years ago till now. You discovered a piece of evidence lasting for 10 billion years.

The same, if you claim that a human brain was formed 20 million years ago, just present your evidence which should have present 20 million years ago till now. You discovered a piece of evidence which last for 20 million years.

Edited by Hawkins
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On 12/17/2018 at 11:31 AM, Hawkins said:

If you said that inorganic materials were turned to organic materials 10 billion years ago, please submit your evidence that it was so. You evidence thus should be present all the times from 10 billion years ago till now. You discovered a piece of evidence lasting for 10 billion years.

The same, if you claim that a human brain was formed 20 million years ago, just present your evidence which should have present 20 million years ago till now. You discovered a piece of evidence which last for 20 million years.

It was billions of years ago, but how many, I personally don't know.

Iso-propyl cyanide has been detected in a star-forming cloud 27,000 light-years from Earth.

Its branched carbon structure is closer to the complex organic molecules of life than any previous finding from interstellar space.

The discovery suggests the building blocks of life may be widespread throughout our galaxy.

Various organic molecules have previously been discovered in interstellar space, but i-propyl cyanide is the first with a branched carbon backbone.

The branched structure is important as it shows that interstellar space could be the origin of more complex branched molecules, such as amino acids, that are necessary for life on Earth.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29368984

And the Murchison Meteorite, about 4 billion years old, had numerous amino acids within it, including some not found on Earth.

In the study, set to be published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, analytical chemist Philippe Schmitt-Kopplin of the Helmholtz German Research Center for Environmental Health in Munich and his colleagues used high-resolution mass spectrometry to look at the organic (carbon-based) content of three Murchison samples. The group found more than 14,000 unique molecular compositions, or collections of atoms, in the samples; there may be 50,000 or more such compositions, if the limited scope of the mass spectrometry analysis is taken into account. And because each collection of atoms can be arranged in numerous ways, the authors estimate that there may be millions of distinct organic compounds in the meteorite.

Many researchers have analyzed the chondritic meteorite
for amino acids and other possible precursors to life, because some theories hold that life on Earth began with the delivery of prebiotic organic compounds from space via asteroids or comets. Schmitt-Kopplin says that he and his colleagues took a less targeted approach to try to unlock the meteorite's full chemical complexity and, by extension, the chemical complexity of the early solar system. "What we've seen out of this is that we had such a multitude of signals as we never saw in any other sample before," he says. "Even in petroleum, you have really complex materials, but not necessarily as complex as this."

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/murchison-meteorite/

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On 12/7/2018 at 3:41 AM, siegi91 said:

 

True, but many books are set in places that correspond to real places. That does not entail, logically, that any story depicted in them are true because of this fact only. That would be a little too easy, don’you think so?

:) siegi :)

 

The trouble for evolutionists (Darwinists) is that they read books printed by fellow believers of false science. Many have pretty pictures, but in the end there is no evidence for evolution only speculation and theories born from a denial of creation by God.

The Spirit-filled Christian on the other hand has the Spirit of truth from God and not only has knowledge about the spiritual, but also directly experiences God.

Thus when people are born from above through the baptism of the Holy Spirit a person's consciousness of God is immediately activated and this person knows that Jesus is God and Saviour and is alive (the resurrection). 

The first miracle is that those who are baptized in the Holy Spirit speak in a spiritual language - often referred to as speaking in tongues. This spiritual language is God given and powerful working within heart and spirit, body and mind. This prayer language brings about for the Pentecostal Christian many many miracles and healings; and also much answered prayer.

Further, converts are miraculously set free from many addictions, bad life habits and gain a testimony to share with others as to their life before this baptism and their new life afterwards. 

John 18:36  Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, that I be not delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not hence. 
37  Pilate therefore said to him, Art thou king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. I to this end have been born, and to this end am I come into the world, that I should witness to the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. 

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On 8/20/2021 at 9:12 PM, Waggles said:

The trouble for evolutionists (Darwinists) is that they read books printed by fellow believers of false science. Many have pretty pictures, but in the end there is no evidence for evolution only speculation and theories born from a denial of creation by God.

Where do you categorize followers of Christ that accept the scientific evidence for evolution? There are many Christians that are in that category.

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6 hours ago, one.opinion said:

Where do you categorize followers of Christ that accept the scientific evidence for evolution? There are many Christians that are in that category.

Why would any Christian worth their salt throw their lot in with Darwin and Dawkins.

Hebrews 11:3  By faith we understand the worlds were created by the word of God, in order that what is seen did not come into existence from what is visible.  [LEB]

Edited by Waggles
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