King Saul

[Pencil24]

So I know eventually God turned his back on Saul and his heart was hardened. Do you think King Saul was ever a Christian, to begin with? I am not really seeing when I read about it him that he ever truly followed the Lord. I was just curious about anyone's thoughts about this subject.  

[Guest 1sheep]

No. He was not. Christ tells us those are his ( genuine christians) ; are forever his. 

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[discipler777]

On 11/12/2018 at 11:41 PM, Pencil24 said:

So I know eventually God turned his back on Saul and his heart was hardened. Do you think King Saul was ever a Christian, to begin with? I am not really seeing when I read about it him that he ever truly followed the Lord. I was just curious about anyone's thoughts about this subject.  

Before Christ(= before His Resurrection and Ascension at around 33AD), only Jews who kept the Law/commandments of God had the opportunity to be saved from hell when they die( 1 Peter 3:19 & 4:6 ), eg Moses and Elijah(MATTHEW.17:3), ie the opportunity to hear the gospel from the resurrected Christ after they died. Those who unrepentantly broke the Law of God were sent to Hades/hell when they die. The rich young Jewish man of LUKE.16:19-31 died and ended up in Hades/hell because he unrepentantly broke the Law at Deuteronomy 15:11, ie by refusing to do charity work towards the poor and destitute like beggar Lazarus during every Sabbath Year.

After Christ, Jews had to believe in Jesus as the Christ/Messiah/Saviour, in order to be saved from hell, ie it was no longer sufficient for them to just keep the Law( Matthew 5:17-48 ) = no more given the above opportunity to hear the gospel from Jesus Christ and be saved from hell after they die. This requirement for salvation was later extended to the Gentiles, ie saved by faith alone, and not by the good works of the Law.

So King Saul most likely ended up in Hades/hell for unrepentantly breaking the Law/Word of God, eg by consulting a sorcerer to speak to a dead prophet(cf DEUTERONOMY.18:9-14). In comparison, King David committed murder and adultery but he repented of his dastard sins = God forgave David and did not execute him but his sons and family had to suffer for his sins = he most likely ended up saved from hell. Similarly for Saul of Tarsus who had committed persecution and murder against early Jewish Christians = he had to suffer for his earlier sins, was martyed as an apostle to the Gentiles but he was still forgiven and saved(ACTS.8 & 9:1-16).

IOW, there is no repented sins/Law-breaking that cannot be forgiven by God through the Blood of Jesus Christ. Repented sins mean non-repeated or non-continuous sins/evil-doings, eg 1CORINTHIANS.6:9-11, JOHN.5:14 & 8:11(= "Go and sin no more").

 

[discipler777]

6 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Saul lived in a time when the Holy Spirit did not dwell within men. It was a different dispensation and while men still trusted the Lord for salvation, the Messiah had not come yet and man was "still shut up" unto the Law and sin (see Galatians 3:24 for details).

Just to add to your good post, .......

 

HEBREWS.10:15-16 (NKJV) = 15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

 

For Old Testament Jews like King Saul, the Law/commandments/Word of God was outside of them. The Spirit of God might come upon them temporarily to do the miraculous works of God.

For Jewish Christians, God could easily put His laws/commandments/Word inside them = filled with and walk in the Holy Spirit of God. For the apostles of Christ, through His Spirit/Word/Law inside them, God even worked miracles, signs and wonders in their ministries and missions.

As per ACTS.15:24-29, for most Gentile Christians, they need to delve into His laws/commandments/Word before God could put His laws inside them. Otherwise, they remain as spiritual babies in Christ who could not walk in the Spirit.(GALATIANS.5:16-26)

[Unfailing Presence]

Saul was the peoples choice .

[Billiards Ball]

On 11/12/2018 at 10:41 AM, Pencil24 said:

So I know eventually God turned his back on Saul and his heart was hardened. Do you think King Saul was ever a Christian, to begin with? I am not really seeing when I read about it him that he ever truly followed the Lord. I was just curious about anyone's thoughts about this subject.  

Saul was not a NT Christian, born again. Saul showed where he loved and trusted the Lord, though. Perhaps he was saved, perhaps not.

[Your closest friendnt]

 

Saul was their first King and was approve by God who annoyntent him not only with oil from his prophet Samuel, but also gave him spiritual gifts so to speak a manual to guide him in performing the task of a King. 

Saul was not born to a King and did not grow as a prince in a palace to be trained in the art of running a Kingdom. 

And as the other trives and clans had their leaders it seems that not everyone gave him his full support. 

God also annoyntent him with a prophetic spiritual gift. 

Samuel was also a special prophet, and there were many other prophets , for people to say that "Saul prophecied like the other Prophets",.

At the time of Moses the Lord put spiritual gifts in the heart of some people to guide them from within their hearts as to built the artistict things in the Temple. 

And on another ocation, the Lord baptized with his Spirit- seventy people- just like in the day of Penticost for a special mission. 

As we learn from the Gospels, Jesus teach that he will give to his disciples on the day of Penticost not the same Spirit as in the Old Testiment , which he gave to those Israelites he choose to give . 

In the New Covenant begining with the day of Penticost the Holy Spirit fall upon all the people (Israelites), who were in the upper room, and also upon all the people (Gentiles), who were gather in the house of Cornelius. 

The Holy Spirit Jesus promish it was for the whole world, and it was not given yet till Jesus diet for the Whole World. 

And it was promish to all the believers in Jesus Christ from that time onwards. when they ask for it. 

We see that the believers in the book of Acts had to ask to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. 

The believers in the New Testiment are partakers of Jesus Christ righteousness and eternal life, because of the redemption Jesus did on the Cross. 

For that reason they indetified by faith with Jesus Christ. 

And they also have the Heaven as their inheritance, the New Promish Land that came with Jesus Christ. 

First was Jesus who went there and no one went their before him.

The Heaven was first for the Savior who open the way (I am the way...) and then for the Saved. 

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

On 11/18/2018 at 11:12 AM, Unfailing Presence said:

Saul was the peoples choice .

To the post above.

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

God Himself wanted to rule His chosen people .The Israelites wanted to be like everybody else and be ruled by a King.God gave them what they yearned for and the results were predictable.....not good.

[Your closest friendnt]

17 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

God Himself wanted to rule His chosen people .The Israelites wanted to be like everybody else and be ruled by a King.God gave them what they yearned for and the results were predictable.....not good.

Yes that what we God said to Sammuel. 

But God did not stopped them , even thought he made them think about to what they are getting into. 

But on thinking about that it seems that he expected for that to happened and made his plans going along with them. 

I may even think that he may be the one to lead them in those desires, as to paved the way for his propose. 

If we look hiw he responded to Sammuel, we may see that he was anticipated that to happened. 

So we can have later David and the promishes made to David about the coming of the Messiah out of Juda and the "son of David", coming out of his line and being born in Bethlehem, the place of David. And the deference to Jesse.