luigi Posted October 25, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,758 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 311 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Charlie744 said: Hope you do not mind… I agree with you that the little horn comes out of the 4th beast kingdom. But that 4th kingdom is pagan Rome not the 3rd kingdom of Greece. There is only one he goat - Alexander. The little horn comes out of the four winds of heaven, not from one of the Greek generals who come towards the four winds. Also, the little horn is a man who comes out of pagan Rome. Pagan Rome ceased to be in the late 5th century to be replaced by papal Rome. Therefore, we have the timing of his arrival. He is not the same as the “anti- Christ” because there is no anti/Christ figure, but there is the “anti-Christ” spirit - this is the practice and intentions of anyone speaking against the Christ. Not sure, but I believe there are only 2 places in the NT where the actual term “anti/ Christ” is found. In 1 John and in 2 John. Both speak to the “spirit of the anti-Christ,” not to a man. This is why God specifically identified the evil one who is a man speaking blasphemous thinks, claiming to be god on earth, infallibility, etc. as THE LITTLE HORN. Given ALL the many characteristics, actions, etc., as well as the timing, there can be only ONE little horn - the papacy. However, many, many will practice an “anti-Christ” spirit in all times until His second coming. One more thing, he comes right after the 10 horns but he is not one of them. Hello Charlie744, Gabriel informs Daniel of the meaning of the events shown him regarding the little horn, and the he goat, as events to occur during the end times (Daniel 8:17 & 19), and are therefore not historical events in the past, but are still yet to occur. Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted October 25, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 201 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2023 On 11/15/2018 at 11:10 PM, R. Hartono said: Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and sixty two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times (see below chart) 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, Verse 26 and 27 are actually separated by 2000 years Verse 26 : the crucifixion of Jesus and the destruction of Jerusalem. Verse 27: the 7 years Peace Deal between Israel-enemies (Arabs) which has never happened since Daniel's time until now. Look at the word "he" shall confirm the covenant, who is "he" ? "he" is the prince whose people destroyed the city and the Temple in Jerusalem 2000 years ago. Which people has destroyed the city and the Temple ? the Roman. So Gabriel gave us a very important clue as to where does this prince will come from. "he" will come from the Roman. Daniel has also received dream regarding the four beast that will affect the life of the Jews till the end of times, the four beasts are Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece and Rome, so the final beast will be coming from the Roman empire reinstituted. https://worthychristianforumscore-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/monthly_2020_08/unnamed.jpg.cf80a8e5504f54abf909b5a5172742b1.jpg There are two beasts and neither of them is Roman. It sounds like you think the beast is Roman because the Romans destroyed the second Temple. This means nothing. It is the destruction of the third Temple that the people of the Antichrist will destroy. Neither beast is Roman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted October 25, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,666 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 857 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, The Light said: There are two beasts and neither of them is Roman. It sounds like you think the beast is Roman because the Romans destroyed the second Temple. This means nothing. It is the destruction of the third Temple that the people of the Antichrist will destroy. Neither beast is Roman. Light, would you might answering the purpose of the 70 weeks of years prophecy is all about? It began in 457BC and ended in 33/34 AD - just 3.5 years after the cross. Wasn't the entire prophecy about restoring Jerusalem, the Temple, the walls, the city, the sabbatical cylcles, the 7 holy feast days after their destruction of the same by the Babylonians? Didn't all of these "physical" elements (buildings, temple,etc.) as well as all the softer elements (feast days, ceremonies, cycles) HAVE TO BE RESTORED BEFORE THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH? It was the Jews mission to restore everything prior to the coming of their Messiah. He arrived on the very first day of the 70th week to BEGIN HIS MINISTRY and fulfill those 6 elements only He could restore (found in 9:24). God had set aside the last week of the 70 weeks for Jesus to complete His God given mission. And He fulfilled all 6 despite being crucified. The 70 weeks of years prophecy is indeed fulfilled. There is no 7 years remaining. And all of certainly took place during pagan Rome - the 4th beast of Nebuchadnezzar's four kingdoms. If you do not mind, I would like to learn your thoughts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted October 25, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 201 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2023 8 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: Light, would you might answering the purpose of the 70 weeks of years prophecy is all about? It began in 457BC and ended in 33/34 AD - just 3.5 years after the cross. Wasn't the entire prophecy about restoring Jerusalem, the Temple, the walls, the city, the sabbatical cylcles, the 7 holy feast days after their destruction of the same by the Babylonians? Didn't all of these "physical" elements (buildings, temple,etc.) as well as all the softer elements (feast days, ceremonies, cycles) HAVE TO BE RESTORED BEFORE THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH? It was the Jews mission to restore everything prior to the coming of their Messiah. He arrived on the very first day of the 70th week to BEGIN HIS MINISTRY and fulfill those 6 elements only He could restore (found in 9:24). God had set aside the last week of the 70 weeks for Jesus to complete His God given mission. And He fulfilled all 6 despite being crucified. The 70 weeks of years prophecy is indeed fulfilled. There is no 7 years remaining. And all of certainly took place during pagan Rome - the 4th beast of Nebuchadnezzar's four kingdoms. If you do not mind, I would like to learn your thoughts on this. My thoughts are that the Messiah is cut off at the end of 69 weeks. Daniel 9 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. My thoughts are that the prince that shall come that shall destroy the city shall confirm a covenant with many for a week. The Antichrist has not confirmed that covenant for a week.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted October 25, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,666 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 857 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2023 1 minute ago, The Light said: My thoughts are that the Messiah is cut off at the end of 69 weeks. Daniel 9 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. My thoughts are that the prince that shall come that shall destroy the city shall confirm a covenant with many for a week. The Antichrist has not confirmed that covenant for a week.. Ok and thanks. But the 25 says that AFTER commandment (457 bc) .... the Messiah. He will come after the 7 and 62 weeks ... AFTER end of the 69 (total) weeks. There is only one week left in the prophecy. In 26, Daniel confirms this same Messiah will be "cut off" AFTER the conclusion of the 62 weeks (the second section of the 3 part prophecy). He can not be "cut off" before the 62 week are concluded... The prince of the people who is to come is the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8. As you know, this "prince" will not be the one to destroy the Temple and everything else in 70AD. It will be the pagan Roman army headed by Titus - they are the "people" of the "prince who is to come." This prince will not arrive until the 5th / 6th century AD - the little horn. Further, there is NO anti-Christ figure or person. Daniel 7,8,9 and 11 speak quite candidly of the little horn who will come out of the 4th kingdom and he will continue until His second c0ming where he will be destroyed without human hands. The "he" in 9:27a is not this mystical anti-Christ figure. The "he" is "He" the Messiah who will confirm the covenant mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31 -34 DURING the last week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. There is NO boogeyman, anti-Christ figure that comes at the end of time. He was created by the little horn (papacy) in the 16th century. There are only two times in the NT where you will find the actual term "anti-Christ." in 1 John and 2 John, and both speak to the "spirit of the anti-Christ." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted October 25, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 201 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2023 37 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: Ok and thanks. But the 25 says that AFTER commandment (457 bc) .... the Messiah. He will come after the 7 and 62 weeks ... AFTER end of the 69 (total) weeks. There is only one week left in the prophecy. In 26, Daniel confirms this same Messiah will be "cut off" AFTER the conclusion of the 62 weeks (the second section of the 3 part prophecy). He can not be "cut off" before the 62 week are concluded... I know. 37 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: The prince of the people who is to come is the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8. As you know, this "prince" will not be the one to destroy the Temple and everything else in 70AD. It will be the pagan Roman army headed by Titus - they are the "people" of the "prince who is to come." This prince will not arrive until the 5th / 6th century AD - the little horn. Not following you here. 37 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: Further, there is NO anti-Christ figure or person. Daniel 7,8,9 and 11 speak quite candidly of the little horn who will come out of the 4th kingdom and he will continue until His second c0ming where he will be destroyed without human hands. You're close. 37 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: The "he" in 9:27a is not this mystical anti-Christ figure. The "he" is "He" the Messiah who will confirm the covenant mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31 -34 DURING the last week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. The Jews do not recognize Jesus as God and will not until the end of the 70th week. Jeremiah 31 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 37 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: There is NO boogeyman, anti-Christ figure that comes at the end of time. He was created by the little horn (papacy) in the 16th century. There are only two times in the NT where you will find the actual term "anti-Christ." in 1 John and 2 John, and both speak to the "spirit of the anti-Christ." There will be a Beast of the sea who was and is not and will come again. There is also a Beast of the earth with TWO horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted October 25, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,666 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 857 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2023 6 minutes ago, The Light said: I know. Not following you here. You're close. The Jews do not recognize Jesus as God and will not until the end of the 70th week. Jeremiah 31 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. There will be a Beast of the sea who was and is not and will come again. There is also a Beast of the earth with TWO horns. Ok and thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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