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naominash

Calvinists: What about prayers for the lost?

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1 hour ago, naominash said:

Was it a bad decision to post my original question?

People get very wrapped up in their views on theology.

I thought it would be a good topic because I'm an audience that is on the fence. I  lean toward Calvinism, but I'm not so dyed -in-the-wool loyal to it that I won't consider other viewpoints.

With that in mind, please know that I won't accept into my heart any kind of attitude that someone's view on election and predestination make you better than anyone else. I don't think a Calvinist, an Arminian, or anyone should justify being mean to others because they have " correct theology." I don't think theology is a goal in itself, but something that helps us view and worship God rightly. And I'm not talking about just one person. I have seen this a lot on this forum and as a whole, I feel like we are drifting far from " speaking the truth in love"  and speaking graciously.

I love you guys, I really do but we all have pride to deal with, myself included. I keep reading people saying we're in danger of compromising the truth. I get it but...

I don't think that's our main problem here.

I think we're getting puffed up and compromising the love.

We need both.

 

 

when people are passionate about something, they speak passionately

when lives are at stake due to salvation issues then sometimes a soft approach doesnt work for some postings.

Have a look at how Jesus spoke to the scribes and pharisees.

I do see and understand your point, I am simply saying dont confuse firmness with anything bad. Look at who is reply to whom, and why they are taling that tone.

sometimes it is meanness, and our words get away from us, and sometimes it isnt.

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1 hour ago, maryjayne said:

when people are passionate about something, they speak passionately

when lives are at stake due to salvation issues then sometimes a soft approach doesnt work for some postings.

Have a look at how Jesus spoke to the scribes and pharisees.

I do see and understand your point, I am simply saying dont confuse firmness with anything bad. Look at who is reply to whom, and why they are taling that tone.

sometimes it is meanness, and our words get away from us, and sometimes it isnt.

It's true that not every response calls for 'niceness'. A firm tone is sometimes needed. In my opinion, I think it's even appropriate to mock people. It's having a self-righteous attitude that seems the most out of place.

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18 hours ago, maryjayne said:

when people are passionate about something, they speak passionately

when lives are at stake due to salvation issues then sometimes a soft approach doesnt work for some postings.

Have a look at how Jesus spoke to the scribes and pharisees.

I do see and understand your point, I am simply saying dont confuse firmness with anything bad. Look at who is reply to whom, and why they are taling that tone.

sometimes it is meanness, and our words get away from us, and sometimes it isnt.

Yes, and I believe it’s VITAL to study the word of GOD, so that we are not deceived during these end times. Many will be deceived for lack of knowledge.

2 Timothy 2:15:  BE DILIGENT TO PRESENT YOURSELF APPROVED TO GOD, A WORKER WHO DOES NOT NEED TO BE ASHAMED,RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH.

We are living in perilous times.

 

 

 

 

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On 11/17/2018 at 5:15 AM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

My first thought is, no, God does not use our prayers in His decision.

Are you sure?? What IF you have a family member who is not saved and you wanted him/her to get saved and be with you as your serve the Lord? Don't you want to prayer for him/her to get saved or that may God change his/her life??

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Everyone must know that the whole of Calvinism rest upon The Lord's Sovereign intent as to His Will only! The problem is The Scriptures do not support this:
first His will in creation to end-

Isa 46:9-10

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
KJV


this statement may be restated everything since the beginning to the end that God has had part in He has done according to His pleasure... this means everything then in Calvinistic thought to the sovereign control in election....

second this statement cannot be true in Calvinism's framework-

Ezek 33:11

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
KJV


simply and to the point- this is prophetical announcements directly from God and the only way the two statements can be resolved is that freewill is God's Sovereign choice for man and angle and election is God's method of maintaining that freewill for all of eternity...

So now to specific on prayer.... we have the privilege to join with God in our desire that all would come to Him and to effect visitation with God in ways that God may manipulate circumstances as to affect their freewill to come to Him... I know the verses say that none seeks after God and this is due to the deadness of spirit within all and this can be understood in our own experience as we turned to God selfishly to get >however< in repentance we got selflessness by regeneration to come to God because of The Who of Him abandoning all that was previous (our being) to considering it dead and to be cast from us... 'all things must become new'...
 

Looking at The Son in the garden where all of what He was (sinless man) requesting another way to be provided in redemptive process -yet- His resolve was not His Will as man but God The Father's Will be done and to the cross The God/Man went... this the narrow path that few can find for it is abandoning all of first creation event and in faith entering God's Word into eternal state where freewill and God's Will become One Jn 17...

 

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A non-Calvinist also may choose to not pray for an unbeliever, per 1 John 5. I don't think prayer can make God completely overturn a person's free will.

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Posted (edited)

Naominash, we don't know who the predestined elect are, that's why we preach to all, for example, God commands all to be perfect as He is perfect, but not one single human is able to achieve that.

Edited by Robert William

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Everyone must know that the whole of Calvinism rest upon The Lord's Sovereign intent as to His Will only! The problem is The Scriptures do not support this:
first His will in creation to end-

Isa 46:9-10

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
KJV


this statement may be restated everything since the beginning to the end that God has had part in He has done according to His pleasure... this means everything then in Calvinistic thought to the sovereign control in election....

second this statement cannot be true in Calvinism's framework-

Ezek 33:11

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
KJV


simply and to the point- this is prophetical announcements directly from God and the only way the two statements can be resolved is that freewill is God's Sovereign choice for man and angle and election is God's method of maintaining that freewill for all of eternity...

So now to specific on prayer.... we have the privilege to join with God in our desire that all would come to Him and to effect visitation with God in ways that God may manipulate circumstances as to affect their freewill to come to Him... I know the verses say that none seeks after God and this is due to the deadness of spirit within all and this can be understood in our own experience as we turned to God selfishly to get >however< in repentance we got selflessness by regeneration to come to God because of The Who of Him abandoning all that was previous (our being) to considering it dead and to be cast from us... 'all things must become new'...
 

Looking at The Son in the garden where all of what He was (sinless man) requesting another way to be provided in redemptive process -yet- His resolve was not His Will as man but God The Father's Will be done and to the cross The God/Man went... this the narrow path that few can find for it is abandoning all of first creation event and in faith entering God's Word into eternal state where freewill and God's Will become One Jn 17...

Nobody deserves the love of God.

 

 

Edited by George
Removed Video -- All videos need to be posted in the Videos section. You can post the video there -- then link to that video page within this post.

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Guys, I'm realizing that every man made system of theology is flawed. 

From now on, every system comes secondary to me searching and reading Scripture for myself.

 

When I read Scripture, I see things that contradict even the most respected preachers, theology systems, and churches. 

God is in control. But He wants us to pray and ask and ask. 

And there are people who speak to God --- and God responds by changing what He was going to do!

It's okay to say, "I don't know." 

But I no longer will limit myself to any ism. 

I just need to read for myself and be alone with God and the Scriptures.

Although I still enjoy the Calvinist idea of Big God, little man.

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