The 2nd coming of Christ : No secret at all

[Blood Bought 1953]

9 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi RH,

"Jesus will not let His bride beaten black and blue by antichrist."

Why wouldn't He? Did Jesus not get beaten black and blue? Even worse, scripture tells us He was not even recognizable?

John 15:20....."Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’^[a] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also"

John 16:33.....""These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."

What is the purpose of the tribulation for Christians?

It is for us to give our testimony. There could be 10's or 100's of millions of Christians that will be put to death. This will be the "hour of testing".  Will we walk away or will we stand strong?

There are currently millions of Christians facing persecution to the point of death. Where is the promise of an early rapture for them? 

From the time of the Apostles till now (eleven of the Apostles were crucified), hundreds of millions of Christians have been slaughtered. Why would our time be any different? Why would only our "Church" be rescued by an early rapture? Doesn't make sense!

 

God will have His Children prepared for whatever awaits them......I have mentioned this before, and it is only tradition, but it sure would not surprise to find out someday that it is true.....they say that when Paul was taken to be beheaded, he ran to the chopping block.....

[JoeCanada]

5 hours ago, SelahSong said:

So glad our Father in His mercy chose to shorten the time to 5 months. But the time of tribulation is a time when many people will be tempted to worship Satan as he will be quite convincing (tempting), and many will worship him —- but not God’s Elect! We will not be deceived. Hallelujah! We’ll stand firm until Jesus returns at the 7th trump — Amen!
 

Hi SelahSong,

I do agree with you that the tribulation will be cut short, for the sake of the elect.

Jesus tells us so in Matt 24:22...."Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short."

But I disagree on the time that you stated.....5 months.

The tribulation is slated for 3 1/2 years. It will be cut short by the rapture of the elect. But, how long does scripture tell us it will be shortened by?

Look at the 3 witnesses from scripture. 

Isaiah 34:8...."For the LORD has a day of vengeance, A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

Isaiah 61:2...." To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn,

Isaiah 63:4...." "For the day of vengeance was in My heart, And My year of redemption has come.

Jesus also tells us in Matt 24:37...."For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

Noah and family were in the ark for 1 year and 10 days. Gen 7:11 and 8:14.

So from scripture, we see that the Day of the Lord begins on a day, but lasts 1 year (approx). This is how long the tribulation is cut short by. 

 

[JoeCanada]

51 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

God will have His Children prepared for whatever awaits them......I have mentioned this before, and it is only tradition, but it sure would not surprise to find out someday that it is true.....they say that when Paul was taken to be beheaded, he ran to the chopping block.....

Hi BB,

That's interesting. I hope when my time of trial comes, that I too will run to the chopping block.

But more than likely, they will have to drag me....lol..... I'm getting old you know!

[R. Hartono]

14 hours ago, SelahSong said:

⁴⁰ Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

⁴¹ Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

^Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

…

So you see that Christians are the ones that remain working in the field.  God has work for us to do, especially in these last days. Amen!  

 

Jesus told us to watch, for we dont know the time of the Rapture, if we have to go into tribulation there's no use watching for His appearance.

And the wrath of God will be poured massively to the earth, if you are left behind nobody will protect you, you may even die in the wars, famines and  calamities. Do you know why the great multitude is taken to heaven ? because the tribulation is on the earth.

[R. Hartono]

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi BB,

That's interesting. I hope when my time of trial comes, that I too will run to the chopping block.

But more than likely, they will have to drag me....lol..... I'm getting old you know!

Nobody will come and get your head when we are taken alive to the cloud.

1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are ALIVE and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi SelahSong,

I do agree with you that the tribulation will be cut short, for the sake of the elect.

Jesus tells us so in Matt 24:22...."Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short."

But I disagree on the time that you stated.....5 months.

The tribulation is slated for 3 1/2 years. It will be cut short by the rapture of the elect. But, how long does scripture tell us it will be shortened by?

Look at the 3 witnesses from scripture. 

Isaiah 34:8...."For the LORD has a day of vengeance, A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

Isaiah 61:2...." To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn,

Isaiah 63:4...." "For the day of vengeance was in My heart, And My year of redemption has come.

Jesus also tells us in Matt 24:37...."For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

Noah and family were in the ark for 1 year and 10 days. Gen 7:11 and 8:14.

So from scripture, we see that the Day of the Lord begins on a day, but lasts 1 year (approx). This is how long the tribulation is cut short by. 

 

Interesting. I could see GT stopped short by months as the great army is gathered to the Valley of Decision. It's going to take a while to march from the east with such a large force, not to mention the foot soldiers, which come from every direction. I'm assured only the vials are wrath and there is no duration for any. 

I have been of the mind GT is cut short from 6 to 8 months. I like your insight in this. But who knows? GT may only last 6 months. Or less. Most certainly longer than shorter, imo.

[JoeCanada]

10 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Nobody will come and get your head when we are taken alive to the cloud.

1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are ALIVE and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Hi RH,

1Thes 4:17 is definitely the Rapture/Resurrection. No doubt about it.

But it doesn't give us the timing. Not pretrib, midtrib, postrib, or prewrath.

But there are a few scriptures that DO give us the timing. 

God does not appoint us to WRATH.....1 Thes 5:9....For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ"

“ For the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand”…Rev 6:17

This verse states that on a specific  “great day”, the wrath of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit will begin.

Let’s pick it up in Rev 6:12-17:

¹² I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; ¹³ and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind.¹⁴ The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. ¹⁵ Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the ^[a]commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; ¹⁶ and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the ^[b]presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; ¹⁷ for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Look at what it doesn’t say…..It doesn’t say that their wrath had already commenced.

It does say that the GREAT DAY OF THEIR WRATH HAS COME

Also, they were hiding in the caves and amongst the rocks and asking them to “Fall on us and Hide us” from the Face of Him who sits on the throne.  No one asks to be hidden under rocks from something that started years earlier. This is a nonsense statement that no one would make. People only ask to be hidden from what they perceive to be a present danger and at its inception.

The Wrath of God begins AFTER Jesus opens  the sixth seal. This is indisputable based on Scripture!

2) EYE WITNESSES:……

1) The inhabitants of the earth in Rev 6:17 testify as to the timing of the initiation of the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord’s Wrath, as shown above.

2) The martyrs under the altar……Rev 6:10 “ They cried out with a loud voice saying “ How long O Lord holy and true, will you refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth”

This right here precludes all five of the first seals from being God’s Wrath.

3) Joel 2:31…” The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood BEFORE the great and awesome day of the Lord comes”

Matt 24:29…..” But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

4) Matt 24:31….. “ And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other”

 

[Steve Conley]

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Christ's second coming will not be a secret by any measure. It will be the most obvious event in the history of the world.

First, let me say that there is only one future coming (parousia) of Christ, not two separated by seven years. It is His second, as testified by Paul in the book of Hebrews chapter 9 verse 28. Peter made it clear that Christ will remain in Heaven until the times of the restitution of all things at which point the Father will send Him to rescue us and begin to pour out His wrath upon the earth-dwellers. This coming takes place at some point in the second half of the seventieth week after the sun, moon, and stars go dark.

Every eye will see Him and all kindreds shall react to His appearance

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

His coming (parousia) will be unmistakable. The glory of Christ and the holy angels will fill the sky. His arrival will be as unmistakable as a dead carcase is to carrion-eating birds.

Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

All the tribes will react to Christ's arrival in the clouds with power and great glory

Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven to raise the dead and rapture His own to Him.

1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Christ will send His angels to gather (catch up) us to Him in the air

Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The appearance of Christ and the angels will be so terrifying that the earth dwellers of every class and station will attempt to hide themselves.

Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The saints that remain will be watching the sky for Him once the sun, moon, and stars go dark

Luk 21:28  And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. 

The tribulation, for the saints, is over at that point but the world’s tribulation is just beginning

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Nothing about Christ's parousia (which includes the rapture) is secret.

Glory be unto Jesus Christ

[JoeCanada]

13 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

 

Great article Steve.

In Matt 24:28, here is a good explanation of "angels", not eagles, and "body" not carcass.

"Rather than impose meaning on the parable one way or the other, however, let’s first look at what it truly says. As we have already seen, the primary misunderstood word is AETOI which means eagles (not vultures)! Now an eagle can be a carrion bird as well as a carnivore, but this passage isn’t talking about birds at all! There are five uses of this word AETOI in the New Testament; two occurrences are found in these illustrations while the final three usages refer to angels not birds (Rev. 4:7, Rev. 8:13, and Rev. 12:14).  In the Old Testament, eagles are associated as a symbol of angels in Isa. 40: 31, Jer. 48:40, Jer. 4:13, Ezek. 1:10, and Ezek. 10:14;  and for God himself in Exo. 19:4, Jer. 49:16, and Deut. 32:11. “Eagle” is a very common term for a heavenly being. Once it is understood that AETOI in this parable is most likely a symbol for angels, the meaning of Jesus’s short illustration begins to jump to life.

Additionally, the word translated “gather” in Luke 17:37 is EPISUNAGO (“gather together upwards”), which is one of the great “Rapture-words” in the New Testament. This word is used in these other Rapture passages, where it is believers who are gathered together:

And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together (EPISUNAGO) His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. (Matt. 24:31 NASB, emphasis mine)

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming (PAROUSIA) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together (EPISUNAGOGE) to Him (2 Thess. 2:1 NASB, emphasis mine)

In Matthew 22:28, the word translated “gather” is SUNAGO which also means “gather together.” (It is missing the prefix EPI which means “above” found in the Luke 17 version.) In both instances the words used by Jesus EPISUNAGO (“gather together upwards”) and SUNAGO (“gather together”), do not mean to simply “gather.” Rather they imply the process of gathering something together. Our English translations are a misapplication of the words. The way our English Bibles are translated, one would think the AETOI were gathering as in a flock. That is not the meaning. They are gathering different items together into a single group.

Finally, the version of this illustration in Luke uses the Greek word for living body and the Matthew version uses the Greek word for dead body.

Once the correct translations of the Greek words are understood, the crystal-clear meaning that Jesus had in mind for this illustration becomes apparent.

Jesus’s angels will gather together the dead saints (Resurrection) and the living saints (Rapture) together upwards into the air to meet the Lord!

This passage has absolutely nothing to do with Armageddon. The fact that both the Pre-Tribulation Rapture exponents and Post-Tribulation Rapture exponents misinterpret Matt. 24:30-31 as the physical Second Coming only intensifies the misunderstanding of the Illustration of the Vultures and the Body and a link between it and Armageddon.

" Can you now see it is a “tongue in cheek” depiction of this Illustration of the “Vultures” and the Body as depicted in Matt. 24:27-28?  The sign of the Son of Man (Lightning) will appear and Jesus will send his AETOI (Angels rather than Vultures!) to rapture the saints!

The full article can be read here:

http://www.thegospelintheendtimes.com/the-rapture/the-rapture-parable/

[Diaste]

 

On 12/2/2018 at 9:34 AM, JoeCanada said:

Finally, the version of this illustration in Luke uses the Greek word for living body and the Matthew version uses the Greek word for dead body.

Not accurate. In Luke the word 'soma' is just a word for flesh or body in a general sense and used figuratively for the spiritual body; 'Soma' does not specify whether the body is dead or living, where 'ptoma' in Matt is less a dead body and more the misfortune where one winds up ruined or dead.  The use of 'soma' can't be construed to mean the 'body of believers' when Matt is in disagreement. 

So if Matt tells us this is ruin or misfortune where the scavengers gather, how do we get to the gathering of believers in Luke 17?

On 12/2/2018 at 9:34 AM, JoeCanada said:

Once the correct translations of the Greek words are understood, the crystal-clear meaning that Jesus had in mind for this illustration becomes apparent.

Jesus’s angels will gather together the dead saints (Resurrection) and the living saints (Rapture) together upwards into the air to meet the Lord!

 I don't know, I mean right after this Jesus says, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds," so I don't see the mystery of the coming and the gathering in Matt 24:28 when it's no mystery at all mere seconds later. 

On 12/2/2018 at 9:34 AM, JoeCanada said:

This passage has absolutely nothing to do with Armageddon. The fact that both the Pre-Tribulation Rapture exponents and Post-Tribulation Rapture exponents misinterpret Matt. 24:30-31 as the physical Second Coming only intensifies the misunderstanding of the Illustration of the Vultures and the Body and a link between it and Armageddon.

Clearly I'm never buying the words from this authors mouth. Matt 24:30-31 is NOT the physical 2nd coming, when the physical coming of Jesus and the gathering of the elect is clearly depicted? Poppycock!

On 12/2/2018 at 9:34 AM, JoeCanada said:

" Can you now see it is a “tongue in cheek” depiction of this Illustration of the “Vultures” and the Body as depicted in Matt. 24:27-28?  The sign of the Son of Man (Lightning) will appear and Jesus will send his AETOI (Angels rather than Vultures!) to rapture the saints!

The full article can be read here:

http://www.thegospelintheendtimes.com/the-rapture/the-rapture-parable/

I think the use of the term 'rapture' explains where this person makes their bed.