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R. Hartono

The 2nd coming of Christ : No secret at all

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7 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

I've never heard of anyone or anything coming out of something it isn't in.

Its the world that you are in who will be doomed in the tribulation, not you because God wants to save you from the hour of temptation.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

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Just now, R. Hartono said:

Its the world that you are in who will be doomed in the tribulation, not you because God wants to save you from the hour of temptation.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

Rev 7:14  And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Again, these people you are saying were raptured are said to come out of the great tribulation. How can one come out of something that they aren't in?

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2 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

Rev 7:14  And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Again, these people you are saying were raptured are said to come out of the great tribulation. How can one come out of something that they aren't in?

The great tribulation is our present world when the hour of temptation starts and Jesus promise to keep us from the hour of temptation.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Jesus will not fetch His bride as dead bodies beaten black and blue, different story with the foolish virgins.

 

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1 minute ago, R. Hartono said:

The great tribulation is our present world when the hour of temptation starts and Jesus promise to keep us from the hour of temptation.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Jesus will not fetch His bride as dead bodies beaten black and blue, different story with the foolish virgins.

 

So you are saying the rapture happens during the tribulation? I'm a bit confused.

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1 minute ago, Steve_S said:

So you are saying the rapture happens during the tribulation? I'm a bit confused.

The rapture will take place be4 the 1st seal is opened where a/c will be launched to conquer the world with fake peace,

Daniel 8:25 .... and by peace he shall destroy many:

especially 7 years peace deal between Israel-Arab enemies, we therefore see the 2 States Solution proposed by US cannot be fulfilled because it is antichrist's ransom to do that.

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Just now, R. Hartono said:

The rapture will take place be4 the 1st seal is opened where a/c will be launched to conquer the world with fake peace,

Daniel 8:25 .... and by peace he shall destroy many:

especially 7 years peace deal between Israel-Arab enemies, we therefore see the 2 States Solution proposed by US cannot be fulfilled because it is antichrist's ransom to do that.

So if it happens before the tribulation then those in Revelation 7 cannot be people who are raptured before it begins because it says they come out of it.

Rev 7:14  And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Words mean things. These words say that these people come out of the tribulation. In fact, it says they come out of the great tribulation, which Christ said doesn't begin until after the abomination of desolation.

Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 
Mat 24:16  "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 
Mat 24:17  Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 
Mat 24:18  And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 
Mat 24:19  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 
Mat 24:20  And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 
Mat 24:21  For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 

Since these people come out of the great tribulation, which Jesus specifically and unequivocally states happens *after* the abomination of desolation, then they cannot have been raptured before before the 7 year period.

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Just now, Steve_S said:

it says they come out of the great tribulation, which Christ said doesn't begin until after the abomination of desolation.

Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 

 

The abomination of desolation will start at the 2nd half of the 7 years of tribulation when a/c enters the Temple of God in Jerusalem and declare himself as God, the Temple shall be built at the first half of the tribulation where antichrist play as MESSIAH to the Jews first.

To understand about the AOD please read this :

 

 

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2 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

The abomination of desolation will start at the 2nd half of the 7 years of tribulation when a/c enters the Temple of God in Jerusalem and declare himself as God, the Temple shall be built at the first half of the tribulation where antichrist play as MESSIAH to the Jews first.

To understand about the AOD please read this :

I understand the AOD. The point i am making is that the "Great tribulation" does not start until after the AOD. Revelation specifically says that the people gathered there came out of the great tribulation. Therefore, they would have to have been present at least 3-1/2 years into the 70th week.

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5 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

So if it happens before the tribulation then those in Revelation 7 cannot be people who are raptured before it begins because it says they come out of it.

Rev 7:14  And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Words mean things. These words say that these people come out of the tribulation. In fact, it says they come out of the great tribulation, which Christ said doesn't begin until after the abomination of desolation.

Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 
Mat 24:16  "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 
Mat 24:17  Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 
Mat 24:18  And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 
Mat 24:19  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 
Mat 24:20  And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 
Mat 24:21  For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 

Since these people come out of the great tribulation, which Jesus specifically and unequivocally states happens *after* the abomination of desolation, then they cannot have been raptured before before the 7 year period.

Shalom, Steve_S (and R. Hartono).

This is because this part of the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in the First Century a few years before the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D! While there are part of the Olivet Discourse that won't be fulfilled until the Master Yeshua` the Messiah returns, some of it has started already! It's important to realize that WE'RE ALREADY IN THE "TRIBULATION!" And, this means that the "tribulation" is NOT restricted to a mere 7 years, or the "great tribulation" to a mere 3.5 years! This, then, begs the question: How can one be resurrected/raptured BEFORE the "tribulation" at all?

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1 minute ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Steve_S (and R. Hartono).

This is because this part of the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in the First Century a few years before the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D! While there are part of the Olivet Discourse that won't be fulfilled until the Master Yeshua` the Messiah returns, some of it has started already! It's important to realize that WE'RE ALREADY IN THE "TRIBULATION!" And, this means that the "tribulation" is NOT restricted to a mere 7 years, or the "great tribulation" to a mere 3.5 years! This, then, begs the question: How can one be resurrected/raptured BEFORE the "tribulation" at all?

We are most certainly not in the great tribulation.

Mat 24:21  For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 
Mat 24:22  And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

I don't think anything that is currently happening or has happened in history can be compared to the flood, which is the greatest calamity to befall humanity thus far. As such, one can confidently assert that we aren't anywhere in the vicinity of "great tribulation, such as has not been seen since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor shall ever be."

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