Francis Chan Warns Against Division in the Church

[JTC]

We do need unity. We also need a lot less anger. Anger can ruin a man of God more thoroughly than almost anything else can. Beware of becoming angry.

[sermonindex]

11 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

I think there's an important distinction that needs to be made between those who you are willing to fellowship with and with regards to whose teaching you put yourself under, because ultimately that is what is in view here. How many denominations are there actually is the question that I would ask.

But really, to get at the point, I have a hard time believing the number 42,000, particularly with regard to what one considers denominations. What is counted under that umbrella?

Are mormons of various sects? Are those preaching the "social gospel?" Prosperity gospel? Etc.

Are individual nondenominational churches being counted as "denominations?"

What percentage of the churches on this list are totally apostate and therefore not actual churches at all?

When discussions like this happen, I believe it's important to go back and take a look at the underlying data to ensure that the discussion that is being had is the one that needs to be had.

Here are stats from 2001 stating 33,000 denominations: http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm

 

I will try and find the credible sources I saw for 42,000 denominations. And yes, that would include all christianity even cults. 

[Steve_S]

6 minutes ago, sermonindex said:

Here are stats from 2001 stating 33,000 denominations: http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm

The first thing i notice from the link is that, as i suspected, independent nondenominational churches are indeed counted as denominations. This is a problem fundamentally, as many such churches that are doctrinally do not at all consider themselves disconnected from the remainder of Christianity, but instead consider themselves an intricate part of it and actively fellowship with members of other churches, both denominational and non-denominational. If claims such as this are going to be made, it's usually best to quantify things like this as best as is reasonably possible rather than lumping all into one category. Collective statistics such as this can make it seem as if churches such as this consider themselves separate from the remainder of Christianity and do not fellowship nor hold themselves accountable to others in the body. It also interweaves heretical/apostate nondenominational churches into the same web as those who are full of true followers of Christ.

11 minutes ago, sermonindex said:

I will try and find the credible sources I saw for 42,000 denominations. And yes, that would include all christianity even cults. 

Then I, personally, would refrain from using said number (though it is your prerogative to do so and I certainly hold nothing against you for it). I believe it is unreasonable for the compilers of such lists to count apostate churches amongst those that truly follow Christ.  One problem that can certainly lead to is the mistaken assumption that unity would then entail entering fellowship or even placing oneself under the teaching of those who are entirely heretical and need to hear the gospel themselves.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, JTC said:

We do need unity. We also need a lot less anger. Anger can ruin a man of God more thoroughly than almost anything else can. Beware of becoming angry.

If you need prayer for your anger issues ,   I will pray for you .      Be encouraged IN THE LORD .       

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I fail to understand why either number is meaningful at all when many of them teach either partially aberrant, of fully aberrant doctrine.  The number of denominations is a secondary issue.  One cannot partner themselves with any denomination, or any teacher that is false.  We are to do only what is in keeping with sound doctrine.  So the only way that one can be in "unity" with many of these denominations is if they correct their error and start teaching sound doctrine and theology. 

Also, why would you be posting statistics taken from a Catholic website?

YOU KNOW WHY .    But thanks for being kind and asking .    BUT GOOD QUESTION .      REAL GOOD QUESTION .      But by grace no matter how its answered,

the proof is in the pudding already .    

[JTC]

3 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

If you need prayer for your anger issues ,   I will pray for you .      Be encouraged IN THE LORD .       

I'll pray for you.

[JTC]

Whether there's 42,000, 33,000 or 10,000 this says a very bad thing about us. There shouldn't even be 1,000. I could understand maybe 10 or 20 denominations but with the hundreds of thousands that exist it says something is very wrong. Jesus implied that when he returns to earth that He'd find little to no real faith here. Seems like we're trying to prove Him right. I believe He wanted us to prove him wrong. 

When I read posts like this one (and too many others) I'm almost glad God has isolated me. Other than this board I don't know what's going on in Christendom. I don't like what I'm hearing. Jesus started 1 church and there should only be 1 church. If things are ever going to get better it has to start with everyone admitting there's a problem. We have to stop fighting.

God help us.

[frienduff thaylorde]

21 minutes ago, JTC said:

I'll pray for you.

YES .  PRAY the will of the LORD be done .     Pray always the love of the TRUTH increase on all hearts .     That also those who warn and expose what is errenous

continue to do so.  And pray if any has faults they be quickly removed and the person be healed .

And all need prayer .   everyone . no man is infallible .   SO do pray for me too .   Pray an increase of the LOVE of TRUTH on all hearts .  That Christ be loved first and foremost .

We pray this ,  and if we have any misunderstanding , and it canbe cleared up .   Let it be ONLY what honors GOD and that will be KEY to what helps others too . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

7 minutes ago, JTC said:

Whether there's 42,000, 33,000 or 10,000 this says a very bad thing about us. There shouldn't even be 1,000. I could understand maybe 10 or 20 denominations but with the hundreds of thousands that exist it says something is very wrong. Jesus implied that when he returns to earth that He'd find little to no real faith here. Seems like we're trying to prove Him right. I believe He wanted us to prove him wrong. 

When I read posts like this one (and too many others) I'm almost glad God has isolated me. Other than this board I don't know what's going on in Christendom. I don't like what I'm hearing. Jesus started 1 church and there should only be 1 church. If things are ever going to get better it has to start with everyone admitting there's a problem. We have to stop fighting.

God help us.

Contending only for truth , only for what HONORS GOD ,and this will be what edifies the body .   Everyone return to the first love , put down all other reads .

Just pick up the bible .   WE DO that and we start their and things will get cleared up   . BUT if we cling to things we THINK and ideals we may have learned from men

and other books,  and I am telling us all, it will just be bickering and bickering . EVERYONE as a child . LETS pick THOSE bibles up  .  even those who by grace

have read the bible for hours daily for many years .  JUST pick up BIBLES ONLY and watch how fast we could learn and would grow in grace .

What I say next is true .  We are being lied too by many .    SO when I say BIBLE ONLY ,   I mean bible only .    Many are under a wrong unity spirit

we need the RIGHT UNITY which is CHRIST FIRST , which means BIBLE time .    What men are doing now , trying to unite the faiths , FORGET IT .

instead start uniting UNDER THE TRUTH .    IF we do this , THE TRUE LAMBS WILL GATHER .  the other move is all wrong .  I know it may not seem like it is,

But believe me , its all rome led , EVEN if folks don't realize this . IT IS .

SO we need only learn that bible very well.   IF we just share IT and not pre conceived ideals , but just the scrips ,  WE WILL grow .  

[JTC]

I'm praying that those with anger will let that anger go.