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5 hours ago, WilliamL said:

From the same Forum:

So here are my bottom line take-aways from this subject:

1) Daniel 9:24-27 provides an accurate summary of events in Judea from the First Coming of the Messiah up to the destruction of the Temple. It doesn’t mention at all

– any abomination of desolation of the Holy Place;

– the time of the end/latter time/latter days, or any similar term;

– the Great Tribulation/time of trouble such as never was;

– the saints, or any flight of God’s people;

– Messiah’s coming in the clouds, Divine Judgment, and/or the establishment of God’s kingdom;

– the coming prince’s demise;

– or the raising of the dead.

These topics are discussed elsewhere in Daniel’s End Time prophecies. Why not here? In my opinion, because this is not a prophecy for the end of Church Age, but rather for the end of the Jewish Age.

Marv, you and others have not supplied a single statement from this passage from Daniel that unequivocally must refer to the End Times. All you provide is your presumptions injected into the text.

As I have said over and over again, anyone who builds their foundations upon unsubstantiated presumptions, upon eisegesis, is building upon a sandy foundation.

If what you post is true, then Daniels people and Daniels holy city have fulfilled and received the benefits of the 6 tasks listed in Dan 9:24.  There sins have then been forgiven according to Zech 13:1 - On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.  This all happens at the end of the Jewish Age which is at the Second Coming when the King of Kings and Lord of Lords sets His feet on the Mt. of Olives..

When does Israel finish transgressions?  At the Second Coming.  When does Israel bring in everlasting righteousness?  At the Second Coming.  When does Israel anoint the Most Holy (One)?  At the Second Coming.  All these 6 benefits/tasks in Daniel 9:24 are accomplished at the Second Coming.  Guess What? The 70th Week will then be fulfilled, at the end of the Jewish Age.  All built on the Word of God.  All prophetic years ending at the Second Coming.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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On 12/26/2018 at 1:53 PM, WilliamL said:

 

Dan. 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city…    [The 70 weeks were for the remnant of Judah (Daniel’s people) and for Jerusalem, none else.]

 

Since the mystery of 'thy people' is revealed in the NT by Paul, 'thy people' refers to the seed of Abraham of which all in Christ are members. 'Thy people' are all who are in Christ, not Jews or Gentiles, but all who are saved by grace through faith from all ages. No man comes to the Father but though Jesus Christ, none.

Therefore 'thy people' does not refer to Jews only.

On 12/26/2018 at 1:53 PM, WilliamL said:

 

Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. ... 22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."

And where were these things written about the desolations of Jerusalem and its Temple? Nowhere else but in Daniel 9:26-27. ]

 

"So he will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.

32 With flattery he will corrupt those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him. 33 Those with insight will instruct many, though for a time they will fall by sword and flame or be captured or plundered.

34 Now when they fall, they will be granted a little help, but many will join them insincerely. 35 Some of the wise will fall, so that they may be refined, purified, and made spotless until THE TIME OF THE END, for it will still come at the appointed time." - Dan 11

"And from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is he who waits and reaches the end of the 1,335 days." - Dan 12

Both speaking to the time of the end.

 

On 12/26/2018 at 1:53 PM, WilliamL said:

 

Long ago posted on The Prophecy Exchange:

As to verse 24, some old stuff of mine. Unable to change the text size:

Dan. 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city…    [The 70 weeks were for the remnant of Judah (Daniel’s people) and for Jerusalem, none else.]

to finish the transgression/peshah…     [The word means and refers to the revolt/rebellion/apostasy of the priesthood, the one originally spoken of in Daniel 8:12, 13, 23. This took place when Antiochus Epiphanes, after being bribed, removed the pious Onias III from the high priesthood and installed his apostatizing brother Jason; latter 170s B.C. 1 Macc. 2:15 calls the subsequent debasement of the priesthood and Temple “the apostasy” [apostasian]. Similar corruptions of the priesthood, including bribes, took place during the time of Roman rule. Jesus condemned it, and prophesied the desolation of the religious establishment and destruction of Jerusalem and Temple because of it:

Matt. 23:29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! ... 35 ...upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation. ... 38 Behold, your house [i.e. the Temple] is left to you desolate."

Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. ... 22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."

And where were these things written about the desolations of Jerusalem and its Temple? Nowhere else but in Daniel 9:26-27. ]

 

and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness…    [All accomplished by the Crucifixion and Resurrection.]

and to close up vision and prophecy…    [Matt. 11:13: “For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.” Luke 16:16: “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it.” OT prophecy – that of Daniel’s people – ended at John the Baptist. OT prophets had the Holy Spirit “come upon” them. Beginning at John, prophets were “filled with” it. The former phrase is never used by the NT, and the latter never by the OT.]

and to anoint the Most Holy.    [= Jesus. He received his initial anointing of the Holy Spirit after being baptized by John. Then became the anointed Melchizedek High Priest of the heavenly sanctuary.]

 

 

On 12/26/2018 at 1:53 PM, WilliamL said:

 

and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness…    [All accomplished by the Crucifixion and Resurrection.]

It was? Why don't I see that? I mean, it certainly not playing out in the lives of people. We have an end to sin? I can see by the news that ain't true. Through the news people certainly don't reconcile with God for iniquity. And where is this everlasting righteousness? 

Do you mean spiritually? Like in another dimension? Can't mean 'in the lives of people on earth' for there is no empirical evidence to support such a claim. 

Maybe you mean Jesus is the end of sin, reconciles iniquity, ok, I can agree there; but 'bring in' everlasting righteousness? Like 'bring to pass', 'come and brought', 'actually come', 'arrive'? When has this happened? 

I'll tell you. Never in history. And it will not until Jesus returns and sets up the kingdom and defeats the last enemy at the end of the Millennium. 

 

 

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On 12/26/2018 at 2:04 PM, WilliamL said:

From the same Forum:

So here are my bottom line take-aways from this subject:

1) Daniel 9:24-27 provides an accurate summary of events in Judea from the First Coming of the Messiah up to the destruction of the Temple. It doesn’t mention at all

– any abomination of desolation of the Holy Place;

– the time of the end/latter time/latter days, or any similar term;

– the Great Tribulation/time of trouble such as never was;

– the saints, or any flight of God’s people;

– Messiah’s coming in the clouds, Divine Judgment, and/or the establishment of God’s kingdom;

– the coming prince’s demise;

– or the raising of the dead.

These topics are discussed elsewhere in Daniel’s End Time prophecies. Why not here? In my opinion, because this is not a prophecy for the end of Church Age, but rather for the end of the Jewish Age.

Marv, you and others have not supplied a single statement from this passage from Daniel that unequivocally must refer to the End Times. All you provide is your presumptions injected into the text.

As I have said over and over again, anyone who builds their foundations upon unsubstantiated presumptions, upon eisegesis, is building upon a sandy foundation.

I will say you are correct. Those things are not mentioned, as you point out. But a lot of things are not said here, cell phones, Microsoft, jets, World War II. Point is proof by omission is no proof at all.

As you say, these things are spoken of in other places and the common items align. In Dan 9 we are just seeing an outline, an overarching timeline, details about the major events within that timeline are given elsewhere, not negating, affirming the outline. 

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On 12/31/2018 at 3:47 AM, Diaste said:

Point is proof by omission is no proof at all.

Proof by assumption is no proof at all. You are the one making the assumptions about Daniel 9:27. I don't have to prove what I say; all I'm offering is a reasonable alternative to your assumptions.

The things that you assume are simply not in the text.

 

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On 12/31/2018 at 3:38 AM, Diaste said:
On 12/26/2018 at 1:53 PM, WilliamL said:

and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness…    [All accomplished by the Crucifixion and Resurrection.]

It was? Why don't I see that? I mean, it certainly not playing out in the lives of people. We have an end to sin? I can see by the news that ain't true. Through the news people certainly don't reconcile with God for iniquity. And where is this everlasting righteousness? 

Do you mean spiritually? Like in another dimension? Can't mean 'in the lives of people on earth' for there is no empirical evidence to support such a claim. 

Maybe you mean Jesus is the end of sin, reconciles iniquity, ok, I can agree there; but 'bring in' everlasting righteousness? Like 'bring to pass', 'come and brought', 'actually come', 'arrive'? When has this happened? 

I'll tell you. Never in history. And it will not until Jesus returns and sets up the kingdom and defeats the last enemy at the end of the Millennium.  

So then the 70th week will not be fulfilled until the end of the Millennium? because that is the consequence of what your last sentence means.

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On 12/31/2018 at 3:38 AM, Diaste said:

"So he will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.

32 With flattery he will corrupt those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him. 33 Those with insight will instruct many, though for a time they will fall by sword and flame or be captured or plundered.

34 Now when they fall, they will be granted a little help, but many will join them insincerely. 35 Some of the wise will fall, so that they may be refined, purified, and made spotless until THE TIME OF THE END, for it will still come at the appointed time." - Dan 11

"And from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is he who waits and reaches the end of the 1,335 days." - Dan 12

Both speaking to the time of the end.

Hardly. Verses 30-32 at the very least are a now long-fulfilled prophecy about the desolation of the Temple by Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 BC, as anyone familiar with the history of Daniel 11 up to those verses can show.

Only the prophecy from Daniel 12;11-12 speaks of the Latter Day abomination of Desolation.

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On 12/26/2018 at 7:37 PM, Montana Marv said:

If what you post is true, then Daniels people and Daniels holy city have fulfilled and received the benefits of the 6 tasks listed in Dan 9:24.  There sins have then been forgiven according to Zech 13:1 - On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.   This all happens at the end of the Jewish Age which is at the Second Coming when the King of Kings and Lord of Lords sets His feet on the Mt. of Olives..

The Jewish Age ended with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, to which Daniel 9:26-27 refer. We are now in the Church Age. Remember the "new covenant"?

Luke 22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1 Cor. 11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

The sins of all the Jews were forgiven who entered into the New Covenant, just as the sins of all the Gentiles who did so. Or are you saying that the blood of Christ has not so far cleansed believers of their sins? That would be heresy.

When, at the Second Coming, the unbelieving Jews "look on Him whom they pierced" and repent of their rejection of Him, then they too will enter into the New Covenant, and receive salvation from their sins. 

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14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Hardly. Verses 30-32 at the very least are a now long-fulfilled prophecy about the desolation of the Temple by Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 BC, as anyone familiar with the history of Daniel 11 up to those verses can show.

Only the prophecy from Daniel 12;11-12 speaks of the Latter Day abomination of Desolation.

Not when Dan 11:35 records, 'even to the time of the end'. 

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14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

So then the 70th week will not be fulfilled until the end of the Millennium? because that is the consequence of what your last sentence means.

No. These things were determined for the seed of Abraham to accomplish. They failed and the last week will close at the demise of beast. Everything leading up to that is consequence for the failure of the people. They could have placed Christ first in the lives and the nation but did not. 

If Satan is released to deceive the nations once again after the Millennium then everlasting righteousness has not yet been attained. Unless the everlasting righteousness is Christ on the throne ruling over the earth. In that case it would be accomplished by the end of the last week give or take 75 days. Still really unsure what the 75 days is all about. 

That's really all 'everlasting righteousness' can mean, Jesus Christ. It certainly cannot mean 'mankind becomes righteous' apart from Jesus. Nor can it mean the people somehow manufacture everlasting righteousness. Has to be Christ the King.

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14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Proof by assumption is no proof at all. You are the one making the assumptions about Daniel 9:27. I don't have to prove what I say; all I'm offering is a reasonable alternative to your assumptions.

The things that you assume are simply not in the text.

 

Then when did all this happen?

"And he will confirm a covenant

with many

for one week

 but in the middle of the week

he will put an end to sacrifice

and offering.

And on the wing of the temple

will come the abomination that causes desolation, 

until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.”

All 9 of the above must be fulfilled by the same person. Who did that and when did it occur? Antiochus IV make a covenant with many for one week? I cannot find that in the history. Means it's coming. Unless you can find the history that proves Antiochus IV fulfilled all 9 of the listed circumstances.

 

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