Scott Free Posted November 28, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,274 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 287 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 1. Passing the Blame Edited December 11, 2018 by Scott Free 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted November 29, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,916 Content Per Day: 3.26 Reputation: 4,851 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted November 29, 2018 19 hours ago, Scott Free said: 1. Passing the Blame This becomes a tempting escape for when things don't go as planned. The church goes over budget because expenses weren't tracked as they should have been? Blame the congregation for not tithing enough. No one shows up to an event whose details were poorly communicated? Blame it on laziness. Women's ministry attendance has been steadily declining for years because they're only given curriculum from the 1970s? Blame it on the lead volunteer for not doing enough. If you find yourself on the receiving end of this blame, I suggest first talking to the accusing party. There's a chance that it's all a miscommunication. Explain your point of view. If they continue to pile on the blame, consider bringing in a third party to help facilitate discussion. That doesn't work? You can brush it off and move forward. If it's too big of an issue or becomes a reoccurring problem, consider talking to elders, stepping out of the role (if possible), or even searching for a new church. 2. Withholding Information Now, don't misunderstand—church leaders deal with a lot. And many times, withholding information isn't bullying; for instance, it isn't wrong if the entire congregation isn't privy to know who's coming in for counseling and why. It becomes bullying is when a person is purposefully withholding information or supplying false information to deceive. This might include telling multiple lies, concealing the truth, lying to get one's way, or creating a false sense of hope with no intention of following up. For example, a pastor creates the hope of replacing outdated carpeting and furniture to encourage more generous giving. He, however, doesn't want to replace the carpeting; he just wants to increase giving to the general fund or even a pay-raise. Lies seem extreme when we're talking finances, so here's a milder example. Imagine the moms group wants to host a craft fair, but leadership isn't a huge fan of that event. They don't want to veto the idea outright because it's not the popular opinion; instead, they lie and say that the church calendar is full and therefore the event just can't happen this year. This manipulation is bullying. 3. Criticism Raise your hand if you've ever felt personally victimized by your church. Ask this question, and more people than you expect might be raising their hands: the teenage single mom who wants to dedicate her baby, only to receive a poignant lecture from leadership about how bad her sins are. The recently clean drug user who can't find a small group to accept him. The ex-con who can't seem to shake the label even though he's been out of jail for decades. The church is a group of flawed people who would be in deep water without the saving grace of Jesus. And honestly, these flaws can include being judgmental. What it all boils down to is being welcoming to all, discerning of position (example: running background checks for children's ministry volunteers), and willing to place criticism aside. 4. Threats and Aggression While this is a not-so-subtle tactic of bullying, it can be one of the hardest to escape. When a person feels threatened, notably by a person of leadership, they instantly feel trapped. Even an outspoken individual can find it difficult to react when they're caught off guard, and the aggressor finds validation in his or her behavior. Now, I know this seems super intense, but we're not always talking about mafia-style threats here. It could be something as simple as a Children's Ministry director telling his volunteers that if they don't volunteer during the Christmas services, then they aren't invited to the end of year volunteer celebration. While it's difficult, the best thing you can do is stand up for yourself and bring a trusted friend in on any conversations with your aggressor. 5. Shame and Guilt In my experience, this is the most common type of bullying within a church. But before we go one step forward, I want to clear one thing up: there's a vast difference between the Holy Spirit convicting someone to repent and a pastor (or another church member) heaping shame and guilt on someone. The former is an essential part of our journey as Christians, and the latter can be a huge roadblock. While a good preacher will be able to teach the truth with grace, it's essential to be able to personally discern if a message is filled with shame or guilt. If it leaves you feeling closer to God, seeking a deeper relationship with Jesus, or encouraged that you can grow, then it's a good sermon. If it leaves you feeling worthless, embarrassed to talk with God, or weighed down to the point of inaction, it's time to reevaluate the teaching. 6. Turning People Against One Another A church should never, ever be trying to set two groups of people against one another. I mean, why would it even want to? But alas, it happens on two different levels. First, a person can be turned against another person. For instance, a pastor pulls aside a small group leader and says, "I heard that Jeffrey has a problem with the way you run Bible Study." While gossip is nearly inevitable, perpetuating it is juvenile. Instead of pitting two people against one another, step up and mediate the problem. It's even more toxic when the church turns one group against another. Like when they tell Celebration Recovery, "Sorry. We can't give any money to your ministry because we've decided to increase our budget for the church food pantry." While the church elders have the right to decide things like the budget, they don't need to seem like they are playing favorites. Just remember: when in doubt, don't call people out. 7. Minimization Minimization happens when a person brings forth legitimate concerns only to have them minimized, blown off, or wholly discounted. This can become a huge problem in churches when you have a leadership staff that would rather sweep things under the rug than deal with them head-on. On one end of the spectrum, this could be something like a worship pastor wanting to change the format of worship and the head pastor not taking the time to listen to his proposal. On the other end, this could be something as serious as minimizing a parent's concern of inappropriate interactions between a volunteer and their child. As a rule of thumb, if the issue at hand is a concern to a person in your church, it needs to be listened to and addressed. 8. Exclusion This one makes my heart ache so badly. The church is supposed to be a place where everyone feels welcome, included, and a part of something bigger than themselves. But time and time again I've heard the story of people being purposefully excluded from church activities and made to feel unwelcome because of one reason or another. For instance, how many times have you heard of a family who has deep roots in a church, being just short of excommunicated because their son admits his homosexual feelings? What about the family with a pregnant teenage daughter? Or the couple going through a divorce? We've all heard the stories. Now let's take a stand from excluding the lost, hurting and the people who are feeling broken. Let's surround them with kindness and compassion to better show Jesus' love. 9. Flattery While flattery is a way more enjoyable form of bullying, it's still manipulation. "But what's so bad about a compliment?" Honestly, nothing! I mean, who doesn't love to hear great things about what they're doing? But it gets tricky when a person is intentionally using compliments to sway someone into doing something they don't want to do. For instance, imagine a youth ministry volunteer who's expressed concern about having too much on her plate. She tells the youth pastor that she needs to drop down from volunteering twice a week to only once. The youth pastor, not wanting to lose a volunteer, asks her, "Are you sure? You're our number one volunteer and the most amazing asset to the team. I mean, no one can do this job as well as you. You're just too valuable." While these compliments are pleasant, it puts the volunteer in an awkward situation. Now, she feels incredibly pressured to stay working a schedule she can no longer sustain. Remember, bullying can even be cloaked in kindness. Your list of 9 is similar to the Quenching Quartet of Control that dims the light of the Holy Spirit: Domination Intimidation Manipulation Seduction This is the Babylonian System to beware of whenever and wherever Christians assemble for fellowship, exhortation, and edification. Over-amplified sound is a sure sign that dominating spirits are manifesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted November 29, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,274 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 287 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Michael37 said: Your list of 9 is similar to the Quenching Quartet of Control that dims the light of the Holy Spirit: Domination Intimidation Manipulation Seduction This is the Babylonian System to beware of whenever and wherever Christians assemble for fellowship, exhortation, and edification. Over-amplified sound is a sure sign that dominating spirits are manifesting. Thank you for that insight. One question. What does the Babylonian System have to do with Jesus Christ? It is revealed as an organization that dominates international commerce and banking. Edited November 29, 2018 by Scott Free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted November 29, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted November 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Michael37 said: Your list of 9 is similar to the Quenching Quartet of Control that dims the light of the Holy Spirit: Domination Intimidation Manipulation Seduction This is the Babylonian System to beware of whenever and wherever Christians assemble for fellowship, exhortation, and edification. Over-amplified sound is a sure sign that dominating spirits are manifesting. This list is why it took three churches before we finally settled on one when we moved to Kentucky. BTW, a funny thing happened in the sermon 2 weeks ago. The pastor and I have talked about giving and he is quite aware that my take on tithing is that it is strictly an OT thing and the Israel's theocracy's equivalent of taxes. So, his sermon was on giving. Afterward I told him I thought it was the best sermon on giving I'd ever witnessed and liked how he referred to Tithing in it (only those in a comedic video that were making excuses for "not tithing" used the word). I also sat in front right, two rows back. He commented that when the service started he looked and saw me sitting right up front and started sweating - but he was only having fun with me. He knows how "legalistic" I am about any of my "non Gospel" opinions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted November 29, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,916 Content Per Day: 3.26 Reputation: 4,851 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted November 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Scott Free said: Thank you for that insight. One question. What does the Babylonian System have to do with Jesus Christ? It is revealed as an organization that dominates international commerce and banking. The name Babylon is mentioned 294 times in the Bible and is often used metaphorically to refer to the chaos, confusion, and corruption of this world and the tyranny that peaks from time to time as a result of its antichrist influences. In this respect an in-depth study of ancient Babylon is well worth the effort for anyone desiring a greater revelation of its biblical typology. Bab·y·lon 1 (băb′ə-lən, -lŏn′) The capital of ancient Babylonia in Mesopotamia on the Euphrates River. Established as capital c. 1750 bc and rebuilt in regal splendor by Nebuchadnezzar II after its destruction (c. 689 bc) by the Assyrians, Babylon was the site of the Hanging Gardens, one of the Seven Wonders of the World. Bab·y·lon 2 (băb′ə-lən, -lŏn′) n. 1. A city or place of great luxury, sensuality, and often vice and corruption. 2. A place of captivity or exile. American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPassingThru Posted November 29, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,979 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,112 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted November 29, 2018 Any man that is using ANY in that list is a hireling and NOT a Pastor of and for Jesus Christ, ...run away from them as fast as you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 30, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2018 That list can be seen in every walk of life, not just in the church. Such traits come from the heart and should be avoided. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryan Posted November 30, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 422 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 319 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2018 These remind me of the BITE model for cult mind control. Many of the items in it happen in churches as well as other parts of life. The BITE Model I. Behavior Control II. Information Control III. Thought Control IV. Emotional Control Behavior Control 1. Regulate individual’s physical reality 2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates 3. When, how and with whom the member has sex 4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles 5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting 6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep 7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence 8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time 9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet 10. Permission required for major decisions 11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors 12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative 13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think 14. Impose rigid rules and regulations 15. Instill dependency and obedience 16. Threaten harm to family and friends 17. Force individual to rape or be raped 18. Instill dependency and obedience 19. Encourage and engage in corporal punishment Information Control 1. Deception: a. Deliberately withhold information b. Distort information to make it more acceptable c. Systematically lie to the cult member 2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including: a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media b.Critical information c. Former members d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking 3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible b.Control information at different levels and missions within group c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when 4. Encourage spying on other members a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group 5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including: a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources 6. Unethical use of confession a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories Thought Control 1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality b. Instill black and white thinking c. Decide between good vs. evil d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders) 2.Change person’s name and identity 3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words 4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts 5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member 6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created 7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including: a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking b. Chanting c. Meditating d. Praying e. Speaking in tongues f. Singing or humming 8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism 9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed 10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful Emotional Control 1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish 2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt 3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault 4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as a. Identity guilt b. You are not living up to your potential c. Your family is deficient d. Your past is suspect e. Your affiliations are unwise f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish g. Social guilt h. Historical guilt 5. Instill fear, such as fear of: a. Thinking independently b. The outside world c. Enemies d. Losing one’s salvation e. Leaving or being shunned by the group f. Other’s disapproval 6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner 7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins 8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc. c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uber Genius Posted December 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 244 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) On November 28, 2018 at 8:21 AM, Scott Free said: While it's difficult, the best thing you can do is stand up for yourself and bring a trusted friend in on any conversations with your aggressor. Tape recording a conversation is both easy and legal in most states. It can serve to expose the things leaders only want to tell you in private. Learned this his the hard way in 2004 with a pastor who lied to me and about me then claimed he never said any such thing. My best friend had just sued someone for defamation and had acquired secret recording equipment he wore under his cloths. I borrowed the equipment but never had a chance to engage that pastor one-on-one again. One should be slow to engage. I left a ministry post but not the Church. I reported the details of the incident to the senior pastor in a letter. Ten years after the incident and 8 years after the assistant pastor left the senior pastor told me that I was the first of a half-dozen people who made similar claims of defamation and he regretted not firing the assistant pastor. it can be a difficult task to assess whether a leader is emotionally immature or a wolf in sheeps clothing. My 43-year history with church leaders suggests that sycophants, rather than mature disciples who have proven themselves worthy to minister, are most likely to be promoted to lay leadership, or even pastoral roles. Edited December 5, 2018 by Uber Genius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejected Posted December 5, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 47 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 761 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 225 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2018 You dont have to study Babylon to figure out what the duce is going on with what is called 'church'. See: awildernessvoice.com and truthforfree.com yo get you started. But if you want to dive into the deep end of the pool see: wickedshepherds.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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