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I agree with you that it is usually the case that a person hears to believe.  I had not heard the Gospel to my knowledge.   I had heard Bible stories such as David and Goliath as a small child attending Sunday School in a very liberal church but not the Gospel per se.  So after repentance the Holy Spirit caused me to hunger to read the New Testament.  It was through reading that I learned about salvation through the death and resurrection of Christ.  That was 60 years ago and I know the Scriptures well now.  

 1Co 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;   1Co 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 2Ti 3:15  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

I do believe in sharing my testimony and the Gospel.  God does use the verbal preaching of the word in most cases to create faith in the hearers.  However, we should not put God in a box saying that is the only way a person may be saved as you did.   I do agree with Jeremiah that it is the Holy Spirit's conviction and then working through the word that brings a person to salvation.  In fact, that was the proclamation of Martin Luther when he found faith through translating "The just shall live by his faith", having been taught salvation through works.   Our salvation is a work of God from beginning to end whether enlightened through reading or through hearing.  People are not needed to proclaim the Gospel verbally.  All we need is the light of the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures.

On 12/4/2018 at 8:51 AM, Behold said:

Therefore, if you are right, then God does not use any Christian to speak to unbelievers, and  instead He brings all the lost to the cross without Preaching, Pastors, Evangelists, TV Ministries, or any other means where a human is the means whereby God THROUGH them, offering the GOSPEL VERBALLY, brings (leads) a person to the Cross.

So, i'll have to disagree with your idea that God, without the use of his Gospel being shared by His  born again, leads people to the Cross.

 

 

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On 12/4/2018 at 10:51 AM, Behold said:

 

Well, not quite, J5

 

We are called to witness.  Or more specifically "go into all the world"..

Therefore, if you are right, then God does not use any Christian to speak to unbelievers, and  instead He brings all the lost to the cross without Preaching, Pastors, Evangelists, TV Ministries, or any other means where a human is the means whereby God THROUGH them, offering the GOSPEL VERBALLY, brings (leads) a person to the Cross.

So, i'll have to disagree with your idea that God, without the use of his Gospel being shared by His  born again, leads people to the Cross.

I dont know how you were saved....but nearly every other person who has ever been born again since Jesus ascended back into Glory was "lead to accept Jesus as Savior" by a believer (person) sharing with them the message of God's love...(Gospel).... and within this verbal offering, the Holy Spirit of God, is able to recreate their spirit as born again, IF they believe.

 

Romans 10:12-15
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

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On 12/4/2018 at 1:00 PM, Willa said:

Sorry, Behold, but no human was involved in my salvation.  God revealed Himself to me through nature per Romans 1.  Months later God convicted me of sin and I repented asking Him to forgive me and then asking the people I had wronged to forgive me; then I tried to make it right with them.   I bought and read the New Testament and chose to follow Jesus; finally I was baptized.  This evolved over a couple of years and it would have been much faster with the aid of people.  It was a sovereign work of God.  I came to a more complete understanding after being taught in a Bible believing church following my baptism.

Hi Willa, likewise for me... when I was age 10, I began hearing the voice of Jesus speaking to me and revealing Himself to me.  He called me by my name and told me He wanted me to follow and serve Him... that the life I was living was not His plan for me.  For 3 years, I heard His call ... and I surrendered when I was 13 yrs old... that was 32 years ago!  

I have a question, though... was there no one that ever mentioned Jesus to you prior His drawing on your heart?  How did you know to get a Bible or what a Bible was or that it contained God's Word?  

For me, being born into horrific abuse/trauma, I'd been purposefully told many things (mostly lies) about God and Jesus. I was also given the truth of the Gospel at a young age in order to "prove" it wasn't for me (that I was hated by God, etc).  They (cult) do that so that the child will hear the truth and then reject it when it is "proven" (through trauma) that God hates them.  But the one thing that was a seed and I didn't even know it was when my older sister and I were taken to a church a handful of times when I was 6 and she was 8, and they gave her a memory verse... Revelation 3:20, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."  My sister repeated the verse over and over so many times, I memorized it too!  I had no clue what it meant.  I had no clue it was even about Jesus, lol.  But it was a seed, nonetheless.  It would be 4 yrs later that I began hearing His voice.  And hearing Him, I would say, "Not today... maybe someday I will follow You... "  And that day came when I was in an Assembly of God church at age 13.  Again, someone took me to a church.  I don't remember one word that was preached, but I'm sure there was preaching.  I don't remember the songs that were sung, but I know someone sang.  There were people around me praying, but I don't know what they were saying.  It was just me and Him at that point and all I remember is the drawing of the Holy Spirit ... the sorrow over my sin and that Jesus gave Himself for me, the joy of knowing He truly did love me, and the tears... the peace that came... the knowing that I was His and He was mine!   

So there was an element of human involvement... even though, throughout those 3 years, there was an intensive drawing by the Lord Himself... and His teaching my heart about Himself.  

Edited by Abby-Joy
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2 hours ago, Willa said:

I agree with you that it is usually the case that a person hears to believe.  I had not heard the Gospel to my knowledge.   I had heard Bible stories such as David and Goliath as a small child attending Sunday School in a very liberal church but not the Gospel per se.  So after repentance the Holy Spirit caused me to hunger to read the New Testament.  It was through reading that I learned about salvation through the death and resurrection of Christ.  That was 60 years ago and I know the Scriptures well now.  

 1Co 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;   1Co 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 2Ti 3:15  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

I do believe in sharing my testimony and the Gospel.  God does use the verbal preaching of the word in most cases to create faith in the hearers.  However, we should not put God in a box saying that is the only way a person may be saved as you did.   I do agree with Jeremiah that it is the Holy Spirit's conviction and then working through the word that brings a person to salvation.  In fact, that was the proclamation of Martin Luther when he found faith through translating "The just shall live by his faith", having been taught salvation through works.   Our salvation is a work of God from beginning to end whether enlightened through reading or through hearing.  People are not needed to proclaim the Gospel verbally.  All we need is the light of the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures.

 

Willa , if you heard stories about david and goliath ,  I just bet you at least heard that JESUS was savoir .  You probably heard it at some time , but don't remember it .

ME,   I was not raised at all in church .   But even at the age of four I remember my mother telling me about heaven , hell, and that JESUS saves .

SO while I too,  was not n church and many years later ,  about thirty two years actually , on may thirtieth of two thousand and six ,   a stirring began in my conscious

AND what a total heart change and total change of direction .   But I do bet you heard it , you just don't remember .

Yes , willa , that might make me old when you do the math , the ripe age of forty six .   don't snicker abby joy , YOU KNOW that age well too sister .   NOW LETS PRAISE THE LORD .

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3 hours ago, Willa said:

I agree with you that it is usually the case that a person hears to believe.  I had not heard the Gospel to my knowledge.   I had heard Bible stories such as David and Goliath as a small child attending Sunday School in a very liberal church but not the Gospel per se.  So after repentance the Holy Spirit caused me to hunger to read the New Testament.  It was through reading that I learned about salvation through the death and resurrection of Christ.  That was 60 years ago and I know the Scriptures well now.  

 1Co 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;   1Co 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 2Ti 3:15  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

I do believe in sharing my testimony and the Gospel.  God does use the verbal preaching of the word in most cases to create faith in the hearers.  However, we should not put God in a box saying that is the only way a person may be saved as you did.   I do agree with Jeremiah that it is the Holy Spirit's conviction and then working through the word that brings a person to salvation.  In fact, that was the proclamation of Martin Luther when he found faith through translating "The just shall live by his faith", having been taught salvation through works.   Our salvation is a work of God from beginning to end whether enlightened through reading or through hearing.  People are not needed to proclaim the Gospel verbally.  All we need is the light of the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures.

 

 

Amen, sister.

 

And i love the way you describe our salvation as being a "work of God from beginning to end".

If every believer could just get that revelation, that salvation is a gift.. If every believer would let God establish their heart with Grace.... As our redemption is created by God, offered by God, and completed by God, on our behalf, and all He asks is that we "believe".

Believing the Gospel, releases the power of God unto our salvation, as a completed situation, that is as eternal and secure as the God who offered it and completed it because we believed.

He who began a good work in us, will be faithful to complete it.

Yeshua is the author and finisher of our faith.

God does it all for us, as Jesus has already provided the means. = His Holy and beautiful Blood.

It's God's blood that was shed for the sin of the entire world, given freely, poured out for us all.

Thank you Yeshua for  your beautiful cross and your beautiful blood.

Matchless is the name of our Lord, whose Name is above every name..... and  whom before every knee will bow and every tongue will confess, that "Yeshua Is Lord"., and there is no other name that is named in heaven or on earth whereby we all may be saved.

Thomas said to The Christ......."my Lord and my God", and Jesus never corrected him, because Jesus is God manifested in the flesh, the Alpha and Omega, who Himself bare our sin and is our eternal life.

Jesus IS the resurrection and the Life.

The very and only reason that compassion, grace, mercy, pity, light, joy, peace, life and holiness exist, is because God and Christ who are literally all these things,  have lovingly shared them with us.

 

 

blessings, 

 

B

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4 hours ago, Abby-Joy said:

Hi Willa, likewise for me... when I was age 10, I began hearing the voice of Jesus speaking to me and revealing Himself to me.  He called me by my name and told me He wanted me to follow and serve Him... that the life I was living was not His plan for me.  For 3 years, I heard His call ... and I surrendered when I was 13 yrs old... that was 32 years ago!  

I have a question, though... was there no one that ever mentioned Jesus to you prior His drawing on your heart?  How did you know to get a Bible or what a Bible was or that it contained God's Word?  

For me, being born into horrific abuse/trauma, I'd been purposefully told many things (mostly lies) about God and Jesus. I was also given the truth of the Gospel at a young age in order to "prove" it wasn't for me (that I was hated by God, etc).  They (cult) do that so that the child will hear the truth and then reject it when it is "proven" (through trauma) that God hates them.  But the one thing that was a seed and I didn't even know it was when my older sister and I were taken to a church a handful of times when I was 6 and she was 8, and they gave her a memory verse... Revelation 3:20, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."  My sister repeated the verse over and over so many times, I memorized it too!  I had no clue what it meant.  I had no clue it was even about Jesus, lol.  But it was a seed, nonetheless.  It would be 4 yrs later that I began hearing His voice.  And hearing Him, I would say, "Not today... maybe someday I will follow You... "  And that day came when I was in an Assembly of God church at age 13.  Again, someone took me to a church.  I don't remember one word that was preached, but I'm sure there was preaching.  I don't remember the songs that were sung, but I know someone sang.  There were people around me praying, but I don't know what they were saying.  It was just me and Him at that point and all I remember is the drawing of the Holy Spirit ... the sorrow over my sin and that Jesus gave Himself for me, the joy of knowing He truly did love me, and the tears... the peace that came... the knowing that I was His and He was mine!   

So there was an element of human involvement... even though, throughout those 3 years, there was an intensive drawing by the Lord Himself... and His teaching my heart about Himself.  

My grandmother would tell me how much she loved reading the Bible and I had to be quiet at 4 PM each day while she read.  At age 4 I remember being told in Sunday School how Jesus arose from the dead and I told them in was impossible--my grandpa had died and was not coming back.  But Bible stories are not the same as the Gospel.  They told us that Jesus was a good man who loved little children.  They did not tell us He is God in flesh who died for our sin.  This church didn't believe in the Trinity or that Jesus was God--just the son of God, a good man.  I stopped attending Sunday School after the third grade.  My parents had decided not to tell me about religion but to let me find out for myself.  So all my mom told me was that she had a "mountain top experience" at a high school age retreat but she never explained what she was talking about.   My dad believed in philosophy and humanism, that Jesus was a good man and all roads lead to God..   Even the church hymnal had removed all mention of the Trinity  and they changed lyrics of traditional hymns.  I was led to believe that you go to heaven if you are good.  But God gave me a hunger for the truth and sound doctrine. 

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6 minutes ago, Willa said:

My grandmother would tell me how much she loved reading the Bible and I had to be quiet at 4 PM each day while she read.  At age 4 I remember being told in Sunday School how Jesus arose from the dead and I told them in was impossible--my grandpa had died and was not coming back.  But Bible stories are not the same as the Gospel.  They told us that Jesus was a good man who loved little children.  They did not tell us He is God in flesh who died for our sin.  This church didn't believe in the Trinity or that Jesus was God--just the son of God, a good man.  I stopped attending Sunday School after the third grade.  My parents had decided not to tell me about religion but to let me find out for myself.  So all my mom told me was that she had a "mountain top experience" at a high school age retreat but she never explained what she was talking about.   My dad believed in philosophy and humanism, that Jesus was a good man and all roads lead to God..   Even the church hymnal had removed all mention of the Trinity  and they changed lyrics of traditional hymns.  I was led to believe that you go to heaven if you are good.  But God gave me a hunger for the truth and sound doctrine. 

 

Wow......glad you got out of that “ church”. I thought “my” church was bad , they had doctrinal error, but the place you described, if they just say Jesus was “ a good man”  is preaching a message that is beyond perverting the Gospel....It is a message straight from Hell. Once again —- glad you escaped it.

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Wow, some great testimonials here, Praise the Lord!

My mom was a Christian Scientist and my father was a Mason, I hated Sunday School, the only reason I went is mom bribed me with a cheeseburger, fries and a chocolate milkshake afterwards, ..I was so unruly and disruptive they finally asked her to not bring me anymore, ...when I was 12 years old I became sick, a rash broke out on me and the school sent me home, as I was walking out the Principal's door I told him God was going to heal me and I'll be back Monday morning, ...I didn't know one thing about God, Monday morning mom took me to school and the nurse examined me and allowed me to return my classes.

Fast forward to New Years Eve '67, I OD'ed on LSD, I knew I was dying and I knew that I was "Hell bound," how did I know that?, the Christian Scientists don't believe Hell even exists, as I fell backwards my life drained out of me I shouted out FATHER! whether it was aloud or just in my mind I don't know,  ...the only thing I had learned from the Scientists, they called God Father, ...45 minutes peaking on Acid and instantly straight, ...as I walked out the door I heard God say to me, "I'll talk to you later!"  

God is omnipotent, ...so often people construct a box for God and place Him in their little box, they are little Goders,  in so doing they limit God in what He can do in their lives, my God of the Bible, in human terms, is the largest Being in existence, if we truly believe He lives outside of a box, that nothing is impossible for Him then we are big Goders and we stand in awe in His presence and power and watch Him work! 

Praise the Lord!

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We don't need great faith--just faith like a mustard seed in a great God.

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