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Heb 13:8

OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

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Guest Butero
On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 6:15 PM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

When I referred to myself as 66 year old chick magnet is was pointing out the  A B S U R D I T Y of that !, GOOD GRIEF, man ,do you have to EVERYTHING spelled out for you? Sometimes people use irony and absurdity to make a point.You misunderstand a LOT.You should really not be engaging in debates.Some people are very shallow in their thinking.It explains a lot......speaking of “ explaining”, don’t forget to check out on You Tube — Ralph “ YANKEE “ Arnold— be forewarned: he sometimes uses irony trying to make a point

Here is another personal attack.  It is completely unnecessary.  

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Guest Butero
2 minutes ago, Cletus said:

really I didnt see that... was it reported?

 

I reported it.  That 777 on his name was changed to 666.  

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5 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

There is a reason this debate has not changed for hundreds of years, and we are seeing it displayed in this thread just as we have in all the other threads on the subject.  No one is going to get banned though, possibly removed from the thread, but fear not!  Another one will arise from the ashes and we will start over again with the same result!  The question is why the result will be the same, and the answer is not all that complicated.

One side of the argument reverts to the accusation that if not OSAS, then the individual must be of the mindset they save themselves, nullifying the work of Christ.  The other side, will revert to the accusation that if OSAS, then you promote willful sinning with unabashed shame.   Of course in either case, there are never any statements made to support either claim, so round and round we go.

Cheese is nice if you have some crackers to go with it, but a bag of popcorn also goes hand in hand with a good show.  ;) 

God bless

 

“ never any statements to support either claim” huh? I may disagree with the man I am debating, but Butero does his best to support his claim, as do I.That is why I don’t care if this thread goes on forever..... newbies deserve to see both side of this ages- Old argument and make their own minds up.In time, the audience will see that Butero is wrong about everything he ever thought about and of course, BB knows everything and has known everything since his youth.......that last line was a little exaggerated, perhaps.....lol. Wait a minute....I have been burned by such statements in the past , so let me make it clear.....THAT LAST LINE WAS A JOKE !!

 

 

 

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Guest Butero
22 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I dont know about all of that stuff.....here is what I accuse you of—— adding to the Gospel of 1cor15:1-4 with your doctrine “ Jesus Saves, BUT only I’d your repentance slate is clean.Simple as that .One is saved by Grace alone , with faith alone , through Christ alone.Works cancels Grace and Grace was the very thing that saved you.Why would anyone want to do that?

 

 

Here is something I have noticed about your posts.  Cletus has posted lots of scripture to show OSAS is a lie, and you don't challenge any of them.  You ignore them.  I posted scripture that shows OSAS is a lie, and you don't challenge them.  You ignore them.  I proved with scripture that sin will cost you the Kingdom of God.  I showed the difference between the kind of sins the Judaizers preached and sins related to the holiness of God.  I showed you that speaking a word against the Holy Ghost is unpardonable, and anyone with a mouth to speak is capable of doing that, even Christians.  You have no answers.  

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Guest Butero
10 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

“ never any statements to support either claim” huh? I may disagree with the man I am debating, but Butero does his best to support his claim, as do I.That is why I don’t care if this thread goes on forever..... newbies deserve to see both side of this ages- Old argument and make their own minds up.In time, the audience will see that Butero is wrong about everything he ever thought about and of course, BB knows everything and has known everything since his youth.......that last line was a little exaggerated, perhaps.....lol. Wait a minute....I have been burned by such statements in the past , so let me make it clear.....THAT LAST LINE WAS A JOKE !!

 

 

 

It really doesn't have to go on forever.  Think about this.  You know and have acknowledged, as have I, that there are scriptures that would seem to lean towards OSAS and against OSAS.  There are scriptures both sides of the argument would rather stay away from and seem to have weak responses for.  I saw this going on.  Jesus said the Holy Ghost is our teacher and guide.  I was honest enough one day to tell the Lord I saw the seeming contradictions, and asked him to reconcile it for me.  He did.  The only thing that explains how all the scriptures fit together perfectly is predestination and election, something I didn't want to believe because it seemed unfair.  Still, I wanted the truth, and when I saw this fit perfectly, like a missing piece to a puzzle, I knew I had received my answer.  Seek the Lord for yourself and ask that God would allow the Holy Spirit to guide you into the truth.  Or, keep on avoiding those hard questions about verses like the ones I posted, and only focus on those you think help your position and just keep saying they can't contradict so I must be misunderstanding something.  The choice is yours.  

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1 hour ago, Butero said:

Absent from the body means that his soul would go straight to heaven when he died.  It was better for him to be absent from a body that was sleeping in the grave, and to be present with the Lord, than to continue to deal with the trials and tribulations in this life.  

No,  the context is not based on one verse. It's spread out through Job, Eccl and Corinthians 1 and 2. It's better for man yes. Who wouldn't "prefer" to be with Lord right away. We'd have to be crazy. At the end of the day however, God is always in control.

All we're seeing here is Paul's thoughts and emotions and his excitement to want to be with the Lord, but Paul is not God.

Rom 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height (hupsóma) nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Cor 10:5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up (hupsóma) against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

2 Cor 5:8
eudokeó: to think well of, i.e. to be well-pleased
Original Word: εὐδοκέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eudokeó
Phonetic Spelling: (yoo-dok-eh'-o)
Definition: to think well of, to be well-pleased
Usage: I am well-pleased, think it good, am resolved.
HELPS Word-studies
2106 eudokéō (from 2095 /eú, "good, well" and dokeō, "to think, seem") – properly, what seems good (pleasingly acceptable).

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from eu and dokeó
Definition
to think well of, i.e. to be well-pleased
NASB Translation
am well content (1), am well-pleased (5), been pleased (1), chosen gladly (1), good pleasure (1), has...pleasure (1), pleased (2), prefer (1), taken pleasure (1), taken...pleasure (1), thought it best (1), took pleasure (1), well-pleased (4).

Job 1:21 and said: “Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised.”

Ecc 5:15 Everyone comes naked from their mother's womb, and as everyone comes, so they depart. They take nothing from their toil that they can carry in their hands.

2Co 5:3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.

.....................................................................................

1 Cor 15:53-54 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

2 Cor 5:4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

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17 minutes ago, Butero said:

It really doesn't have to go on forever.  Think about this.  You know and have acknowledged, as have I, that there are scriptures that would seem to lean towards OSAS and against OSAS.  There are scriptures both sides of the argument would rather stay away from and seem to have weak responses for.  I saw this going on.  Jesus said the Holy Ghost is our teacher and guide.  I was honest enough one day to tell the Lord I saw the seeming contradictions, and asked him to reconcile it for me.  He did.  The only thing that explains how all the scriptures fit together perfectly is predestination and election, something I didn't want to believe because it seemed unfair.  Still, I wanted the truth, and when I saw this fit perfectly, like a missing piece to a puzzle, I knew I had received my answer.  Seek the Lord for yourself and ask that God would allow the Holy Spirit to guide you into the truth.  Or, keep on avoiding those hard questions about verses like the ones I posted, and only focus on those you think help your position and just keep saying they can't contradict so I must be misunderstanding something.  The choice is yours.  

 
Yes, the choice is yours to believe and confess, Rom 10:9. Anyone rapture ready..
 
Jhn 10:28-30 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch (harpazo) them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch (harpazo) them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
 
1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
 
Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.
 

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36 minutes ago, Butero said:

Here is something I want you all to think about for a moment.  There are a lot of people here that seem to have this negative view of any God-given standards, and consider the mere mention of them to be legalism.  They will use verses out of context to show this, like this familiar passage from Romans 14:2-6

For one believeth that he may eat all things:  another, who is weak, eatheth herbs.  Let not him that eateth despise him which eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth:  for God hath received him.  Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth.  Yea, he shall be holden up:  for God is able to make him stand.  One man esteemeth one day above another:  another esteemeth every day alike.  Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.  He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eatheth not, and giveth God thanks.  

Notice the kind of laws Paul is speaking of.  They are laws of separation.  They are laws to show the Jews a separate people from the unbelieving and idol worshipping gentile nations.  They no longer apply because the gospel was taken to the gentiles and many believed, so that which was common and unclean is not anymore.  Let's take this same passage in light of the way people take it out of context and insert other sins.  How about, "One believeth he may lay carnally with his neighbor's wife, another, who is weak only has sexual relations with his own wife."  Doesn't work so good does it?  How about, "One believeth that he may steal, another, who is weak only makes due with what is rightfully his."  That is because these laws that no longer apply are all dealing with laws of separation, not God's standard of holiness.  Notice what Paul says here...

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?  Be not deceived:  neither fornicators, idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

We have people in this thread testifying for all the world to see that they are filthy sinners, and this passage says the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.  Who do we believe?  Then there is the matter of speaking against the Holy Ghost.  Unless you are a mute, this is possible.  What does Jesus say?

"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:  but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."  Matthew 12:32  

Who are we to believe?  The OSAS crowd that says you can do nothing to lose salvation, or Jesus that says you will never have forgiveness if you speak a word against the Holy Ghost?  Are we to believe the OSAS crowd that says the unpardonable sin is unbelief, or Jesus that says the unpardonable sin is speaking a word against the Holy Ghost?  

 

 

  Butero, my worthy foe......your FIRST paragraph reveals you don’t read anything I say! How many times must I tell you that obedience to Gods Laws are not —- I repeat—— ARE  NOT  LEGALISM......I try to be as obedient as I can be all the time! I have no desire to commit any “ Willfull sins” and if the desire WAS  there I would t have the stupidity or the guts to perform it.Repentance of such sins never saved me and it won’t keep me saved. That is all I am saying.FEAR willfully sinning but not because it will send you to Hell.A disobedient Son is still a Son.......He will be saved and stand before Jesus with many bruises on his rear- end.Faith in the Gospel was what saved him- Jesus promised it.My sins do not affect the Holiest Thing In this universe —The Shed Blood Of God’s Sacrifice sprinkled on the Mercy  Seat in Heaven.Pleasing enough to God to cover ALL sins ever committed.If you have “ cashed in” on what Christ provided for FREE,you are safe as long as that Blood is there as a constant reminder as to the Price that was payed.One should not diminish its value.Willfull sins do not faze the POWER of that BLood.Dont promote a “ weak” Gospel that contains “ weak” Blood.

 

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Butero said:

Here is something I have noticed about your posts.  Cletus has posted lots of scripture to show OSAS is a lie, and you don't challenge any of them.  You ignore them.  I posted scripture that shows OSAS is a lie, and you don't challenge them.  You ignore them.  I proved with scripture that sin will cost you the Kingdom of God.  I showed the difference between the kind of sins the Judaizers preached and sins related to the holiness of God.  I showed you that speaking a word against the Holy Ghost is unpardonable, and anyone with a mouth to speak is capable of doing that, even Christians.  You have no answers.  

 

Put on your thinking cap......everything you accuse me of......you do the same 

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Guest Butero
2 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:
 
Yes, the choice is yours to believe and confess, Rom 10:9. Anyone rapture ready..
 
Jhn 10:28-30 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch (harpazo) them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch (harpazo) them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
 
1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
 
Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.
 

Here is yet another example of where you never bothered to refute any of the scriptures I posted, because you can't.  You simply play dueling scriptures.  Nothing will ever get resolved that way.  Let's examine the passage from John.  Let's go back to this in context, which means backing up to verse 25...

25  Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not:  the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26  But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 

29  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30  I and my Father are one.  

First of all, he is speaking to non-believers and explaining to them that since they reject him, they are not among his sheep.  He tells them that his sheep hear the voice of Jesus, Jesus knows them, and they follow Jesus.  It is not just people that claim to be saved, but they are people that follow Jesus.  In regard to his sheep, they will never perish, and no man can pluck them out of his hand.  God gave these sheep to him.  Who are these sheep?  They are the elect.  They are the ones that God knew before he created them in their Mother's womb and predestined to salvation.  Only God knows who they are, we don't.  You can think you are of the elect, but you may not be.  You might fall away down the road, and that would mean you were not of the elect and not really one of Jesus' sheep.  That is why we are told in 1 Peter 1:10  

"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure:  for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"  If you wish to see the things, they are right before this verse.  

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