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Heb 13:8

OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

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1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

deflection by not answering a question shows you are not willing to see the other side as answer … 

you deflected to me earlier by not responding to the underlined portion....  I did however notice not two or three posts down you were responding to others. 

whats that saying about a coffee pot and a kettle? 

incase you forgot allow me to refresh your memory... its about keep oneself unspotted from the world. 

Edited by Cletus
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9 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

The confusion in regards to soul sleep, is simply mistaking what it means to be clothed.  For clarification, look to what Jesus said specifically in regards to being clothed, which clears up also what it means to be naked.

 

Luke 24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.

 

To be clothed is to be filled with the Holy Spirit, which was the promise of the Father.  Also, refer to Jesus' comments to Nicodemus regarding what is required to enter the kingdom of heaven, one must be born again of water and Spirit.

 

John 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

 

Ephesians 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

 

God bless

Hi Wingnut,

1 Cor 15:53-54 gives us a time frame, mortal to immortal. That only occurs at resurrection and rapture.

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7 hours ago, Butero said:

Go back a few pages.  I just posted scriptures nobody addressed.  BB did make reference to them after I said something, but didn't directly address all of them.  

99% of the world loves money so... 🙄

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

2 Cor 4:9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed.

Heb 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”

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57 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Hi Wingnut,

1 Cor 15:53-54 gives us a time frame, mortal to immortal. That only occurs at resurrection and rapture.

 

Actually it doesn't if you misunderstand what it means to be further clothed.  When Jesus tells the disciples to remain in the city until they are further clothed from power on high, they listened.  Years later they were all killed for their faith, which means they were not immortal when already clothed.  Think about it.

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Here is a little more fuel for meditation:

1Jn 1:7  But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

Zec 3:1  And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zec 3:2  And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Zec 3:3  Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
Zec 3:4  And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
Zec 3:5  And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.
Zec 3:6  And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying,
Zec 3:7  Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.
Zec 3:8  Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

 

Rev 19:13  And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

 

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4 hours ago, Butero said:

The reason why this is more than foreknowledge is that God created the people, knowing what they would do.  He made them thus.  And yes, he can hold them accountable because even if the master potter made them that way, they are still bad.

God ither made people with Free Will or He didnt.

So, if he didnt, as your "predestined elect" theology maintains..... then He can't hold people accountable for "rejecting Christ", as they would not be able to do it....as "rejecting" is a facility of FREE WILL CHOICE, ...YET... according to you, God made predestined zombie robots, who have no free will ...... and some of them He chose for Heaven and some He created to be burned for eternity, just because He can.....

So, Your God is one cruel creator, and im so Glad the Father of Jesus and the born again, is nothing like this, at all..

That is your theology,  and its not something that you should be telling other believers.

Let me try again.

Your theology, that you just stated in the "QUOTE".........is...."God decided that He will cause some to God to hell, only because He is God and can choose this for them, and they are just unfortunate to be born.......thats life".

 

 

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7 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Free will be taken or not given to a person.

To fulfill Prophecy.  The beast and false Prophet of Rev 13 and Rev 19:20.  Special people for a special time.  King Herod the Great, Some Roman Emperors like Nero, Jewish king Jeconiah (Jehoiachin).  If evil was needed to fulfill Prophecy, that individual was specific for that role, an unjust vessel of dishonor. Unjust nations can even be used to punish others.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Thanks for indulging me brother, it appears we share the same thoughts on the matter.

God bless

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47 minutes ago, Behold said:

God ither made people with Free Will or He didnt.

So, if he didnt, as your "predestined elect" theology maintains..... then He can't hold people accountable for "rejecting Christ", as they would not be able to do it....as "rejecting" is a facility of FREE WILL CHOICE, ...YET... according to you, God made predestined zombie robots, who have no free will ...... and some of them He chose for Heaven and some He created to be burned for eternity, just because He can.....

So, Your God is one cruel creator, and im so Glad the Father of Jesus and the born again, is nothing like this, at all..

That is your theology,  and its not something that you should be telling other believers.

Let me try again.

Your theology, that you just stated in the "QUOTE".........is...."God decided that He will cause some to God to hell, only because He is God and can choose this for them, and they are just unfortunate to be born.......thats life".

 

 

 

Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

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1 hour ago, Behold said:

God ither made people with Free Will or He didnt.

So, if he didnt, as your "predestined elect" theology maintains..... then He can't hold people accountable for "rejecting Christ", as they would not be able to do it....as "rejecting" is a facility of FREE WILL CHOICE, ...YET... according to you, God made predestined zombie robots, who have no free will ...... and some of them He chose for Heaven and some He created to be burned for eternity, just because He can.....

So, Your God is one cruel creator, and im so Glad the Father of Jesus and the born again, is nothing like this, at all..

That is your theology,  and its not something that you should be telling other believers.

Let me try again.

Your theology, that you just stated in the "QUOTE".........is...."God decided that He will cause some to God to hell, only because He is God and can choose this for them, and they are just unfortunate to be born.......thats life".

 

 

God creates us knowing who will be saved and who will be lost knowing all we will ever do.  Do you deny that?  Your doctrine is nothing but taking what you like about Calvinism and perverting it to place you in control of whether to get saved or lost, and then you become his prisoner.  You could murder people, commit adultery, steal, anything, and remain saved, while someone like Mother Theresa rots in hell.  If you call my doctrine cruel, yours is no better.  

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38 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

while I believe the scriptures you have posted this scripture always causes me to scratch my head in regards to this:

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

now obviously not all will come to repentance.  but because of this one scripture it causes me to think there is a reason why He hardens those He hardens.... what are your thoughts concerning this scripture in the light that God Does indeed do as He wills with individuals?

this isnt something i claim to know btw, and even at times am not wanting to speak my mind fully on because of how great God is.  i am just curious as to where you fit this scripture into the equation. 

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